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	<title>Comments on: &quot;Iraq is a total mess and we are responsible&quot;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/</link>
	<description>Like Kryptonite To Stupid</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: frameone</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42065</link>
		<dc:creator>frameone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42065</guid>
		<description>Hell, Dugs, why didn&#039;t you just quote Inhofe and be done with it:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.senatemajority.com/outrageous_quote_of_the_day_james_inhofe_0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.senatemajority.com/outrageous_quote_of_the_day_james_inhofe_0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.senatemajority.com/outrageous_quote_of_the_day_james_inhofe_0&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hell, Dugs, why didn&#8217;t you just quote Inhofe and be done with it:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.senatemajority.com/outrageous_quote_of_the_day_james_inhofe_0" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.senatemajority.com/outrageous_quote_of_the_day_james_inhofe_0" rel="nofollow">http://www.senatemajority.com/outrageous_quote_of_the_day_james_inhofe_0</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: frameone</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42064</link>
		<dc:creator>frameone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42064</guid>
		<description>&quot;I admit it would be much harder to name a blogger you like who doesn&#039;t believe Iraq is a total mess.&quot;

Just try naming a right wing pundit with a passing familiarity with reality. How about that?

And with regards to Pace, I don&#039;t think anyone who sees a civil war in Iraq as a possibility could be characterized as supporting the claim that things are going so-so in Iraq. Pace strikes me as being on the down side of the assessment.

But again, let me point out that simply believing things are going okay in IRaq doesn&#039;t mean that they actually are. Or is that concept totally foreign to you guys on the right?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I admit it would be much harder to name a blogger you like who doesn&#8217;t believe Iraq is a total mess.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just try naming a right wing pundit with a passing familiarity with reality. How about that?</p>
<p>And with regards to Pace, I don&#8217;t think anyone who sees a civil war in Iraq as a possibility could be characterized as supporting the claim that things are going so-so in Iraq. Pace strikes me as being on the down side of the assessment.</p>
<p>But again, let me point out that simply believing things are going okay in IRaq doesn&#8217;t mean that they actually are. Or is that concept totally foreign to you guys on the right?</p>
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		<title>By: factcheck</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42063</link>
		<dc:creator>factcheck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42063</guid>
		<description>Or is duge claiming that Sean Hannity is a general?  I&#039;m confused.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or is duge claiming that Sean Hannity is a general?  I&#8217;m confused.</p>
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		<title>By: factcheck</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42062</link>
		<dc:creator>factcheck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42062</guid>
		<description>Too bad Sean Hannity doesn&#039;t have a blog, otherwise Dugger may have had a point.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too bad Sean Hannity doesn&#8217;t have a blog, otherwise Dugger may have had a point.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42061</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42061</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Perhaps its interesting because you distorted what I said. Is there not a middle ground? Or if some generals do not think Iraq is a total mess, do they then, by default, have to believe things are going swimmingly?
Nothing in between?&lt;/em&gt;

That&#039;ll work just fine.

&quot;Iraq: Not a total mess.&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Perhaps its interesting because you distorted what I said. Is there not a middle ground? Or if some generals do not think Iraq is a total mess, do they then, by default, have to believe things are going swimmingly?<br />
Nothing in between?</em></p>
<p>That&#8217;ll work just fine.</p>
<p>&#8220;Iraq: Not a total mess.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dugger</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42060</link>
		<dc:creator>Dugger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42060</guid>
		<description>frame,

Pay attention, son.  I was asked to name a blogger and a general who did not believe Iraq was a total mess (or just &#039;so-so&#039;).

I admit it would be much harder to name a blogger you like who doesn&#039;t believe Iraq is a total mess.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>frame,</p>
<p>Pay attention, son.  I was asked to name a blogger and a general who did not believe Iraq was a total mess (or just &#8216;so-so&#8217;).</p>
<p>I admit it would be much harder to name a blogger you like who doesn&#8217;t believe Iraq is a total mess.</p>
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		<title>By: frameone</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42059</link>
		<dc:creator>frameone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42059</guid>
		<description>You now it also should be add that by any measure Iraq is already in a civil war which goes back to the original point: Saying things are going okay in Iraq doesn&#039;t make it so. Providing political cover for a failed president over a failed war does not equal reality.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You now it also should be add that by any measure Iraq is already in a civil war which goes back to the original point: Saying things are going okay in Iraq doesn&#8217;t make it so. Providing political cover for a failed president over a failed war does not equal reality.</p>
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		<title>By: frameone</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42058</link>
		<dc:creator>frameone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42058</guid>
		<description>Dugger, Pace recently told the Senate that there is a possibility of Iraq sliding into civil war and that he had not anticipated such a possibility just one year ago. When asked by a Marine during a visit to Fallujah how much more time the Iraqi government sould be given to get its act together, Pace said: “I guess they have as long as it takes. Which is not forever.”

If you&#039;d like to decipher that last bit, have at it. From where I stand you have a general saying that things are getting worse in Iraq and that we can&#039;t stay there indefinitely until the Iraqis sort it out. How that differs from what anyone on the left or the mainstream of American public opinion, is saying, you got me.

And I can&#039;t believe you had brought up Sean Hannity. Hannity would applaud Bush if he started killing puppies on the White House lawn. Hacks of a feather, I guess...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dugger, Pace recently told the Senate that there is a possibility of Iraq sliding into civil war and that he had not anticipated such a possibility just one year ago. When asked by a Marine during a visit to Fallujah how much more time the Iraqi government sould be given to get its act together, Pace said: “I guess they have as long as it takes. Which is not forever.”</p>
<p>If you&#8217;d like to decipher that last bit, have at it. From where I stand you have a general saying that things are getting worse in Iraq and that we can&#8217;t stay there indefinitely until the Iraqis sort it out. How that differs from what anyone on the left or the mainstream of American public opinion, is saying, you got me.</p>
<p>And I can&#8217;t believe you had brought up Sean Hannity. Hannity would applaud Bush if he started killing puppies on the White House lawn. Hacks of a feather, I guess&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dugger</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42057</link>
		<dc:creator>Dugger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42057</guid>
		<description>Z

Why refute an invalid point?

Gen Peter Pace and Sean Hannity.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Z</p>
<p>Why refute an invalid point?</p>
<p>Gen Peter Pace and Sean Hannity.</p>
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		<title>By: frameone</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42056</link>
		<dc:creator>frameone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42056</guid>
		<description>&quot;Is there not a middle ground?&quot;

For krissakes then Dugger please show us a general or other blogger who thinks everything is just so-so in Iraq.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Is there not a middle ground?&#8221;</p>
<p>For krissakes then Dugger please show us a general or other blogger who thinks everything is just so-so in Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: Zython</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42055</link>
		<dc:creator>Zython</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42055</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Zython, You misinterprteted. My comment on the left has to do with intolerance of opposing viewpoints. Almost opposite of what your confused post seems to be saying.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s not that hard to understand. Here&#039;s the jist of it:

Moment A: &quot;The left isn&#039;t united on any ideas, so they suck.&quot;

Moment B: &quot;The left isn&#039;t tolerant of any ideas that they agree upon, so they suck.&quot;

In the end, you&#039;re left with saying that the left isn&#039;t open to new ideas that opposes the ideas that the left doesn&#039;t even have in the first place. If you bother to think about it for a second, it doesn&#039;t make sense. The talking points the pundits have fed you are conflicting with eachother.

Then again, I don&#039;t blame you for not refuting my point, considering the fact that you and the rest of the conservative trolls here are too scared to respond to my posts most of the time.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Zython, You misinterprteted. My comment on the left has to do with intolerance of opposing viewpoints. Almost opposite of what your confused post seems to be saying.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that hard to understand. Here&#8217;s the jist of it:</p>
<p>Moment A: &#8220;The left isn&#8217;t united on any ideas, so they suck.&#8221;</p>
<p>Moment B: &#8220;The left isn&#8217;t tolerant of any ideas that they agree upon, so they suck.&#8221;</p>
<p>In the end, you&#8217;re left with saying that the left isn&#8217;t open to new ideas that opposes the ideas that the left doesn&#8217;t even have in the first place. If you bother to think about it for a second, it doesn&#8217;t make sense. The talking points the pundits have fed you are conflicting with eachother.</p>
<p>Then again, I don&#8217;t blame you for not refuting my point, considering the fact that you and the rest of the conservative trolls here are too scared to respond to my posts most of the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Dugger</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42054</link>
		<dc:creator>Dugger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42054</guid>
		<description>Quaker said


&quot;That&#039;s an interesting observation, Dugger.

Maybe you could point us to those &quot;generals and other bloggers&quot; who still insist things are going swimmingly in Iraq?&quot;

Perhaps its interesting because you distorted what I said.  Is there not a middle ground? Or if some generals do not think Iraq is a total mess, do they then, by default, have to believe things are going swimmingly?
Nothing in between?

Zython,  You misinterprteted.  My comment on the left has to do with intolerance of opposing viewpoints. Almost opposite of what your confused post seems to be saying.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quaker said</p>
<p>&#8220;That&#8217;s an interesting observation, Dugger.</p>
<p>Maybe you could point us to those &#8220;generals and other bloggers&#8221; who still insist things are going swimmingly in Iraq?&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps its interesting because you distorted what I said.  Is there not a middle ground? Or if some generals do not think Iraq is a total mess, do they then, by default, have to believe things are going swimmingly?<br />
Nothing in between?</p>
<p>Zython,  You misinterprteted.  My comment on the left has to do with intolerance of opposing viewpoints. Almost opposite of what your confused post seems to be saying.</p>
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		<title>By: midderpidge</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42053</link>
		<dc:creator>midderpidge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 03:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42053</guid>
		<description>&#039;Cut and run&#039; or &#039;put targets on our troops&#039;, which strategy appeals to me.  We are unable to provide security because we don&#039;t have enough troops.  We can&#039;t send more of our troops.  With Bush in office we can&#039;t get international military help.  What does that leave us, grining our army down or pulling them out?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Cut and run&#8217; or &#8216;put targets on our troops&#8217;, which strategy appeals to me.  We are unable to provide security because we don&#8217;t have enough troops.  We can&#8217;t send more of our troops.  With Bush in office we can&#8217;t get international military help.  What does that leave us, grining our army down or pulling them out?</p>
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		<title>By: Zython</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42052</link>
		<dc:creator>Zython</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 03:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42052</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;So if one conservative blogger says Iraq is a mess, and some on-the-outside miltary types, then it is true? So what if other generals and other bloggers say otherwise? Are the only ones not &#039;lying&#039; the ones that agree w/you?

One of the nice things about being on the &#039;right&#039; side, is that we have true diversity of opinion. If someone on your side speaks up, he&#039;s gone.&lt;/i&gt;

Here&#039;s the thing that doesn&#039;t make sense. One minute, you say that the left isn&#039;t united, hence they suck. Then you turn around and say that the left doesn&#039;t have diverse opinions, hence they suck. Doesn&#039;t that strike you as the least bit odd? Flip-flopper.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So if one conservative blogger says Iraq is a mess, and some on-the-outside miltary types, then it is true? So what if other generals and other bloggers say otherwise? Are the only ones not &#8216;lying&#8217; the ones that agree w/you?</p>
<p>One of the nice things about being on the &#8216;right&#8217; side, is that we have true diversity of opinion. If someone on your side speaks up, he&#8217;s gone.</i></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the thing that doesn&#8217;t make sense. One minute, you say that the left isn&#8217;t united, hence they suck. Then you turn around and say that the left doesn&#8217;t have diverse opinions, hence they suck. Doesn&#8217;t that strike you as the least bit odd? Flip-flopper.</p>
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		<title>By: Repack Rider</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42051</link>
		<dc:creator>Repack Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42051</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; The very question in 2003 Repack Rider claims to have answered (along with his millions of cohorts) was &quot;what do we do&quot;? Their answer was: leave Saddam in power to inflict his own brand of Abu Gharib-ism over the country&lt;/i&gt;

Like our ALLY Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan?  The guy who boils his opponents?  Why are we leaving him in power?

As to Abu Ghraib, none of us would have even recognized the name of Saddam&#039;s prison had our own people not taken over the activities there without losing a beat.

&lt;i&gt;whilst in a race with Ahmadinejad to see who could use the most inflamatory, anti-US extremist rhetoric.&lt;/i&gt;

Name calling?  Now THERE&#039;S a serious threat.  Time to take out Ann Coulter.

&lt;i&gt;you certainly have to acknowledge there would have been trade-offs and consequences of NOT going in.&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, tens of thousands of people still alive, $300B not borrowed from China, our military still in working condition, and a measure of worldwide respect.  Bummer stuff.

What is your military record?  Do you plan to serve in Iraq?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> The very question in 2003 Repack Rider claims to have answered (along with his millions of cohorts) was &#8220;what do we do&#8221;? Their answer was: leave Saddam in power to inflict his own brand of Abu Gharib-ism over the country</i></p>
<p>Like our ALLY Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan?  The guy who boils his opponents?  Why are we leaving him in power?</p>
<p>As to Abu Ghraib, none of us would have even recognized the name of Saddam&#8217;s prison had our own people not taken over the activities there without losing a beat.</p>
<p><i>whilst in a race with Ahmadinejad to see who could use the most inflamatory, anti-US extremist rhetoric.</i></p>
<p>Name calling?  Now THERE&#8217;S a serious threat.  Time to take out Ann Coulter.</p>
<p><i>you certainly have to acknowledge there would have been trade-offs and consequences of NOT going in.</i></p>
<p>Yeah, tens of thousands of people still alive, $300B not borrowed from China, our military still in working condition, and a measure of worldwide respect.  Bummer stuff.</p>
<p>What is your military record?  Do you plan to serve in Iraq?</p>
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		<title>By: factcheck</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42050</link>
		<dc:creator>factcheck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42050</guid>
		<description>Farrises comment is especially stupid when you consider Shrubbie&#039;s &quot;axis of evil&quot; comment pretty directly led to the hard liners Ahmedi-the hell with it&#039;s election.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Farrises comment is especially stupid when you consider Shrubbie&#8217;s &#8220;axis of evil&#8221; comment pretty directly led to the hard liners Ahmedi-the hell with it&#8217;s election.</p>
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		<title>By: Nimrod Gently</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42049</link>
		<dc:creator>Nimrod Gently</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42049</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve been called bro before either.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve been called bro before either.</p>
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		<title>By: Duros62</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42048</link>
		<dc:creator>Duros62</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42048</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the only way I can remember his name.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the only way I can remember his name.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Duros62</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42047</link>
		<dc:creator>Duros62</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42047</guid>
		<description>Actually, NG, I kindof lifted that from you, bro&#039;.
props.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, NG, I kindof lifted that from you, bro&#8217;.<br />
props.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nimrod Gently</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/20/iraq-is-a-total-mess-and-we-are-responsible/#comment-42046</link>
		<dc:creator>Nimrod Gently</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 22:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2568#comment-42046</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just glad I&#039;m not the only one who calls him Mr Achmed Dinnerjacket.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just glad I&#8217;m not the only one who calls him Mr Achmed Dinnerjacket.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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