These are the people in charge of our world.
A microphone picked up an unaware
President Bush saying on Monday
Syria should press Hezbollah to “stop doing this shit” and that his secretary of state may go to the Middle East soon.Bush was talking privately to British Prime Minister Tony Blair during a lunch at the Group of Eight summit in St Petersburg about an upsurge of violence in the Middle East, not realizing a microphone was recording what he said.
UPDATE: Video here.
We are doomed when the president talks candidly to the British Prime Minister?
What a maroon!
On a lighter note, there’s the story of the women’s club that asked Bess Truman if she could get President Truman to stop using the word “manure.” She replied that it had taken her 30 years to get him to START using it.
I think its funny you think my language is of the same impact as the g-d president of the US.
“You see, the … thing is what they need to do is to get Syria, to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it’s over.”
Sounds to me like a concise and insightful analysis of the situation. In fact, a hell of a lot better than any analysis I’ve seen around here on… well, anything.
He lost points for talking with his mouth full, though.
J.
I don’t know oliver, you aren’t any better with your “us public school kids”.
Consider it the presidents “plainspokeness”. The sad part is that you can’t admit that what he said is correct, but go on to suggest that he is in “a postion to stop it”. Yea, how exactly? I mean, without involving the 1st Marine Division?
Yes, its great when the leader of the free world can’t get any more articulate than “terrorists gotta stop this shit”. Its like he’s not in a position to stop said “shit” or something.
Blair, Annan urge international deployment over Mideast conflict…
British Prime Minister Tony Blair and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan called Monday for the deploy…
Agreed. But the question now is HOW do we get Syria to get Hezbollah to quit doing this shit? And Iran to quit supplying them and Lebanon to quit giving them safe harbor?
drpedro Jul 17th, 2006 at 11:48 am
Consider it the presidents plainspokeness .
Like the highly successful and articulate “Bring ‘em on!”?
Bush taking a direct, no nonsense approach to terrorists? Please, please Oliver: keep complaining about this. Make sure, via commercials, that this clip stays in heavy rotation for as long as possible.
Do that and Bush will be back over 50% by September.
Dugger,
They’re on the “verge” of war? What the hell does actual war look like to you? Nukes?
Of course, based on the con track record, an Iranian bombing of Mass. would only happen under a con presidency.
Actually, dugger, the real problem is that influential wingnuts have been wrong from the get-go. From Krugman:
The greatest thing to come out of [invading Iraq] for the world economy & would be $20 a barrel for oil. Rupert Murdoch, chairman of News Corporation (which owns Fox News), February 2003
Peacekeeping requirements in Iraq might be much lower than historical experience in the Balkans suggests. There s been none of the record in Iraq of ethnic militias fighting one another that produced so much bloodshed and permanent scars in Bosnia. Paul Wolfowitz, deputy secretary of defense and now president of the World Bank, Feb. 27, 2003
Earlier this week, I traveled to Baghdad to visit the capital of a free and democratic Iraq. President Bush, June 17, 2006
Hmmm. Hezbollah and Mideast extremists have escalated the level of violence in the Mideast dramatically. The region is on the verge of war and our ever thoughtful, brilliant progressive analysts think the real problem is that in an off-the-record remark, the President used the S word.
No, really, despite the total, utter cluelessness evidenced by their analysis here, you can trust progressives on foreign policy and national defense. No, really! Just trust them.
Sir, Iran has just nuked Massachusetts. President Moonbat: Golly! Wonder what we did to cause that! Tell the world at once that we are writing a protest letter to the UN!
Dugger
I gotta say, both of you (Oliver and pedro/Farris) are making too big a deal of this. Yes, he said “shit”. No, I don’t think the world is going to end. Personally, I like a leader who uses explatives and “straight talk”. Then again, Teddy R. is my ideal president, so…
On the other hand, Farris, I think you’re really reaching when you say that this is a direct, no-nonsense approach. A) He said it in private (ie. not exactly direct) and B) You really think Hezbollah is sitting there going “Yes, yes, soon the destruction of the Jews will be… wait a minute! Evil Bush has said shit! Call off the attacks! FOR THE LOVE OF ALLAH, CALL OFF THE ATTACKS!!!”
How’s about both of you save your outrage and ad hominum attacks for something bigger, like when we begin “Operation: Israli Freesom” or something?
PS. If Bush makes it over 50% by saying “Shit” I will give everyone here $50
Dugger,
My total, utterly clueless opinion was that GHW Bush was correct in his assessment of what a direct invasion of Bagdahd would entail. You’ve said that you had your reservations prior to the current operations (if I’m misinterpreting your prior posts, sorry). I don’t have any problem with using the S word. But saying we’ve got to stop this shit and formulating and implementing a plan for doing so are two different things. What if we try to pressure Syria and they respond with the F word? What then?
You see, the & thing is what they need to do is to get Syria, to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it s over. — Our Leader
Who are “they”? Doesn’t sound like bush thinks it’s us. Is the US irrelevant in this conflict?
JSA, 2 things: Iraq and Israel/Hezbollah. Related but not the same. WE won the big war in Iraq but the ‘pacification’ is long term and I don’t know if we have the resolve to see it through. I also don’t know what will happen when we leave. I kind a think the Iraqis will revert to a theocracy of some sort. then, will it have been worth it? I well maybe wrong. Hope so. But Israel/hezbollah/Syria/Iran is a related but more diffrent second issue. Bushs sh*t was a normal human reactiona dn not menat to be policy or anything else.
LB,
Please. Perspective. Death rate in Iraq is a little over one per day. WWII was, I believe, in the 200’s. We,as a generation, are a little spoiled and soft.
buma,
Please, Murdoch is not the government (what was in between the ellipes?). Ted Turner has said many stupid things. So what? re Wolfie, I don’t know. The Balkans have often been much bloodier than Iraq. There was true genocide in places like Yugoslavia after the war.
Dugger
i don’t know
Yes buma, the United States’ blind support of Isreal is totally irrelevant in this conflict.
On another note, what’s the deal with conservatives going on and on about how we’re in the middle of WWIII? How about trying to defuse the situation, instead of fanning the flames? Totally irresponsible.
To ‘i don’t know’ dugger:
I referred to Murdoch as an influential wingnut, not as part of the government.
And thanks for this enlightening post, which could easily come right from Rush’s mouth:
“Please. Perspective. Death rate in Iraq is a little over one per day. WWII was, I believe, in the 200 s. We, as a generation, are a little spoiled and soft.”
Until we get the death count up to respectable levels there’s no point in calling this a war.
buma,
Hide you eyes, frame.
Since you are emphasizing death ‘count’, need I remind you LA County had more homicides over the same period of time as US deaths in Iraq. Thus, I would say some wars/police actions etc are worse than others and some (ipso facto) are better than others.
WWII, Korea and Vietnam were all much, much worse than Iraq. Noew if you don’t like that, maybe you are uncomfortable with the concept of ‘perspective’.
Dugger (per Pres Bush, my typing is sh*t!)
The * was meant to say that yes, I realize that the Palestinian Authority isn’t really a country per se.
I actually have to agree with Bush on this one. It may be a first. The syrians and probably the iranians are using hezbollah to fight a war without any consequences for themselves. That shit can’t go on.
Of course, I also agree with Dean in that if we had a democratic president, it never would’ve gotten to this point.
Personally, since the Palestinans and Lebanese elected Hamas and Hizbollah respectively, I think they ought to reap the rewards of legitmizing those organizations. Meaning Israel, after this attack on their territory, can legitimately declare total war on those two countries.* Both groups had their chance to try and disarm their violent wings, and both failed to do so, instead supporting them. Tough shit guys. See the quote from the japanese general|admiral with regards to pearl harbor: It is unwise to awaken a sleeping giant.
Personally, I think Israel ought to dismantle the syrian army as well, all through air strikes. And maybe a good portion of their industrail complex.
If the people over there want to be treated like adults, then they need to take responsibilty for their own people.
That said, and I didn’t read the whole comment stream, but dugger, you’re still a fucking retard. Counting number of US deaths only in Iraq is stupid, comparing 135k troops in Iraq to millions of residents in LA is stupid, not recognizing that we shouldn’t even be there is stupid. Net result: you need to change the captain of your brainship, because he’s drunk at the wheel.
Re: Oliver’s comment about Iran bombing Massachusetts. Two points:
1) Check the census figures. They’d be hard-pressed to find some Massachusetts people to blow up — they’re fleeing as quick as they can.
2) The current mess of the Big Dig is an exemplar of the current state of the Commonwealth. Unless they used a nuke, most folks wouldn’t even notice.
These observations based on nearly 40 years of living next door to the Bay State.
J.
“Hide you eyes, frame …”
I will only note that you have left behind your original statement that “Los Angeles County is more dangerous than Iraq” which I can only take as your grudging admission that it was, all along, entirely untrue.
I also feel compelled to add that if you are looking at homicides in relation to population, Iraq is almost 20 times more dangerous for Americans than Los Angeles County.
Glad to see you finally accept reality on this point Dugger. Growth is possible.
Well…I for one, think that it’s about the most honest thing Bush has said. The word “shit” doesn’t bother me, so much as it does the man who’s saying it, as he has “shit” for brains, and has always proven to be an international embarrasment in front of serious thinkers like Blair.
Jay Tea… I think most of in Massachusetts heartily give you the one finger salute. I know I do. I also give you a cyber-kick in the ass for even dignifying the “Nuke Massachusetts” comment.
1.) I don’t know a single soul who is fleeing. In fact, two good friends of mine just bought houses here in the “Bay State.”
2.) The Big Dig is exemplar of almost ALL very large government pork barrell projects, you nitwit. Government waste and abuse are rampant. Can you say Halliburton, you cupcake?
Sick of you people. Dumb as rocks. The lot of you.
Get out.
JK
JK, like I said, check the census. Massachusetts is hemorrhaging citizens like a hemophiliac at a barbed wire convention. Boston itself is leading the charge. The question is not whether or not you’ll lose a congressional seat in 2010, but how many.
Secondly, the Big Dig. It is not typical of wasteful projects, it is the poster child. It didn’t even wait until it was finished before it started falling apart and killed someone. It is the most expensive public works project in US history, and it’s an utter lemon.
Finally, I won’t hold your venom against you. But when you do come to your senses and come north to New Hampshire, could you kindly remember just what sort of idiocies drove Massachusetts into the toilet? Too many of your former neighbors haven’t, and immediately try to recreate the same insanity they just fled from.
J.
BTW, JK, as a good liberal, which tax rate do you file at? The state mandated minimum of 5.3%, or the optional 5.8%?
I pay the standard NH rate, JK… 0.0%. Same on sales taxes.
New Hampshire is ok and all, but seems like a place for people that don’t have the talent or skills to get a job that will let them afford a house in Mass.
I think it is also important to remind everyone that Mass. has had a Republican chief executive for 15 years. On the other hand, laissez fair New Hampshire has had a Dem governor for 8 years.
Wow, Massachusetts is really hemorraging people. Putting aside the cherry picking that JT does with statistics, which isn’t surprising, he is talking about a loss of 19k people—- out of a population of 6.4 million.
So according to JT, “hemorraging” means losing .3% of a population in 2 years. Wow, at that mercurial rate, Mass. will lose it’s whole population by 2700.
But of course, it’s all about freedom to not wear a seat belt. Which is good for JT, because judging from his paste-eater posts here and on his “blog”, he’s a prime candidate for a Darwin award on any given day. Wouldn’t want the “nanny state” interfering with his destiny.
JK, here’s the facts:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/07/04/bay_state_wants_everyone_to_count/
Money quote:
Yeah, we got high property taxes. But those are controlled at the local level, and they are more than offset by the lack of a state income or sales tax. We have, overall, one of the lowest overall tax burdens in the nation.
Yeah, we miss a few things, like soaring crime rates, drug epidemics, and rank political corruption. One trick we use to keep the politicians in line is we don’t pay ‘em a living wage. Our legislators make $100.00 a year. You’d be amazed how out of their hair they stay when they gotta work for a living.
By the way, my condolences on losing any more federal funding for the Big Dig. Good luck finding any more money to pour down that hole in the ground. Maybe Senators Ted Kennedy (D-Chivas) and John “Just a gigolo” Kerry can use their considerable influence in Congress to reverse that decision. Or maybe they can bring Mike Dukakis and Billy Bulger (former Senate president and president of UMass) out of retirement to help — Dukakis can threaten to bore them to death with a filibuster, and Billy can hint that his serial killer brother Whitey Bulger (#2 on the FBI Most Wanted List) will come out of hiding and put a few more notches on his pistol.
Yeah, we don’t have your hospitals, but we do have Dartmouth Hitchcock, and that’s pretty damned good. We don’t have your colleges, but for the most part, you can keep ‘em. (If having Harvard and MIT means also having The People’s Democratic Republic of Cambridge, no thanks.)
But the one thing we have here in New Hampshire that we’re most proud of is our freedom. Freedom from the petty naggings of a mommy state government. No motorcycle helmet laws. No seat belt laws for adults. Law enforcement that actually recognizes and understands the Second Amendment.
Up here, we won’t “protect” you from doing stupid things. We’ll tell you you’re being stupid, and try to talk you out of it, but if you have your heart set on being a moron, then go right ahead. We’ll be sure to tell our kids about how you idiotically killed yourself.
All those benefits of Massachusetts you tout are just gilding on the cage. Thanks, but no thanks.
J.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/25000.html
Wow, Mass really is hemorraging people. Oh wait, the population is increasing.
Do you know what I really don’t like about you guys on the right? It’s your consistent lack of honesty which is demonstrated by this off-topic argument.
Yes, Massachusetts’ population is increasing at a slower rate than other states over the past 15 years or so. The reasons have much more to do with the changing demographics in this state, and the high cost of housing/living, than just the 5.2% income tax rate you mention. Anyone can do a Google search to substantiate that point.
You state that MA is in “in the toilet?
Geez, I dunno, Einstein. What do you have in NH that rivals MA? Uh…mountains, some nice lakes, and no income and sales tax. That’s about it. You don’t have our biotech indusry, you don’t have our hospitals, you don’t have our schools and colleges, you don’t have the culture and arts we do in Boston, and you don’t have two recent World Champions, in the Red Sox and Patriots.
Here’s the kicker you fail to mention about your state, and thus, the lack of honesty: NH is amoung the highest in the U.S. in Property Taxes. In fact, it’s the 3rd highest, nationally.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/43.html
Again, N.H. is a nice state…there’s just not a heck of a lot going on there.
It’s not venom, nitwit. It’s my absolute digust with you guys and your demonstrated inability to be honest about anything these days.
Doesn’t matter the topic. You guys on the right lie, and you lie alot.
JK
factcheck, kindly check your facts again. John Lynch, NH’s current governor, defeated Republican Craig Peterson in 2004 (with my vote, BTW — Peterson pissed a LOT of people off, including me.) And while MA has had Republican governors since Dukakis left in 1990, the legislature has remained overwhelmingly Democratic — currently the House is 86.25% Democrats (138 of 160) and the Senate at 85% (34 of 40).
As far as “affording a house in Massachusetts,” why bother? You can get nearly twice the house in New Hampshire than you can get in Massachusetts for the same money. I’ll put some of the homes in Bedford or Windham (just to name two communities I’m moderately familiar with) against some of the finest areas of Massachusetts.
Finally, factcheck, the Budweiser plant in Merrimack, NH is the home of the Budweiser Clydesdales. Still say we ain’t got no culture?
J.
Let me clarify, NH had a Republican governor for 2 years from 03-05. Who was replaced by a Democrat.
We’re not disagreeing on the population issue, factcheck, just talking past each other. Yes, MA’s population is higher now than in 2000. But it’s dropped since 2003. The current annual trend is declining.
People are voting with their feet.
J.
Good heavens, fact, have a tissue! You’re spitting all over yourself! Have some dignity, fellow!
You are actually almost right on the seat belt issue — people who don’t wear seat belts are idiots. I sometimes put mine on backing out of my garage, it’s such an ingrained habit for me. It’s just that in New Hampshire, we’re not going to have the government get right in your face and make you do the smart thing. Once you turn 18, it’s your choice.
On the population thing — yes, the actual numbers aren’t very impressive, all by themselves. But in context, they are quite telling. That context being 1) it’s a three-year trend; and 2) nearly every other state is growing, and the few (two others, I believe) are not losing people as quickly as Massachusetts. It’s Ross Perot’s “giant sucking sound,” but it isn’t coming from just the south, but the north and west as well. The very real consequence of that is that after the 2010 census, Massachusetts can pretty much count on losing one — and possibly two — Congressional seats. They lost one in 2000, so again there is a trend going on.
The most common complaint of the refugees is “high cost of living.” Taxation and housing are the two biggest elements of that, and the two that are most under the control of the state government.
Yes, some people are moving to Massachusetts. Some folks don’t mind the nanny state babysitting them, and taking as much of their money as it can possibly get away with to pay for it.
But not as many as are fleeing.
J.
“The most common complaint of the refugees is high cost of living. Taxation and housing are the two biggest elements of that, and the two that are most under the control of the state government.”
I’m a Southerner, but this conversation reminds me of my AF days and trips to MITRE in suburban Boston. With all of the people I worked with, military and civilain, it was common knowledge that if you got assigned there, you would actually live in New Hampshire.
Dugger
sorry who’s should be whose.
Jaytea,
Why are you so defensive about New Hampshire, especially when you started this argument (which has nohing to do with the topic, by the way)? As for New Hampshire’s property taxes– they basically live off the money paid into the system by out-of-staters who can afford to buy and develop the nicest land New Hampshire has to offer. I’m not saying this to be harsh, but it’s pretty obnoxious to go on bashing Massachusetts while igoring the tremendous amounts of money poured into New Hampshire’s economy by people who’s primary homes are in other states.
Just a thought.
We’re doomed because Bush said “shit?”
Oh god, the horror! I’m movin’ to Canada!
Honestly, I’m more concerned with crazy people getting their hands on nukes and threatening civilization than I am about ANYONE saying “shit.”
And do you really think he was wrong? Puhhhleeease!
You really are a whiner sometimes.
TrustmeIknow, please don’t take offense from this, but I will pass on your name and ask you to cite a source for that. That’s a theory I haven’t heard before, but I don’t follow the property tax issue too closely.
It seems a little counterintuitive — if the tax rate was so burdensome, then why would they want to develop land in NH?
On the other hand, lowering tax rates tends to increase tax revenues and giving stimulants to hyperactive kids tends to calm them, so there’s no magic in simple intuition.
I’m not so much defensive of New Hampshire, but proud of it. And living next to MA has given me a damned good perspective of just how bad things can get.
>> No motorcycle helmet laws.
Well, this sums it up people.
A NH piece of work.
Yes, it’s bad policy to mandate that motorcycle riders at high risk for massive head trauma, wear a 1/2″ shell to cover their noggin.
And Jay Tea had the nerve to ask me to voluntarily pay higher tax.
You ass. Listen here. You wear a helmet. If you don’t want to, then kindly pay my higher health care premium, you jerk.
You people…BUY a clue.
JK
Oh, and JK, I didn’t ask you TO pay the higher tax. I asked IF you, as a socially-conscious and responsible and compassionate citizen of Massachusetts, paid the legally-mandated 5.3%, or the optional 5.8% income tax rate?
I wouldn’t blame you if you paid the lower rate. Ted Kennedy files at that rate. So does John Kerry. In fact, judging by the astronomically low compliance rate, nearly everyone who advocates raising taxes for everyone doesn’t actually pay them when given the opportunity to do so voluntarily.
J.
JK, careful. You’re turning into a charicature of a liberal.
I never said that you shouldn’t wear a helmet on a motorcycle. Hell, even the state of New Hampshire doesn’t say that. Of course only an idiot wouldn’t wear one.
In New Hampshire, you have the right to be an idiot.
I can understand if you need the Nanny State to tell you what you can and can not do. To protect you from yourself and the consequences of your bad decisions.
Freedom includes the right to fail. To make bad choices. And to accept the responsiblity of those bad choices.
J.
JT, how about as a security conscious and responsible supporter of the RWWOT (right-wing war on terror), you sign up for military service? Have any college age kids? Them too.
Shut up about JK paying the tax then.
factcheck, I’ve shredded the “chickenhawk” bit before, but I’ll indulge you: I have no children and enough medical ailments to get me laughed out of any recruiter’s office. But you tend to forget that military service is not an obligation nowadays, but a privilege. You gotta WANT to be in the service, and you gotta convince them that they should accept you.
Besides, based on your low opinion of me, why do you hate the military so much that you’d inflict me on them?
J.
“I have no children and enough medical ailments to get me laughed out of any recruiter s office.”
So if you whine enough it’s okay to advocate war and more war for other people to fight. Sweet deal you got there, Jay.
frame, nice move. It’s so much easier to attack the debater than the issue. Because that’s the whole point of the “chickenhawk” argument — not to win on logic or reason, but destroy anyone who dares take the opposing side. Make the argument about the person, not the actual matters at hand.
In brief: the “chickenhawk” argument is chickenshit. It’s just what you expect to be produced by bird-brained assholes.
J.
“The debater”? I’m sorry we’re you trying to debate something? It seemed more like you were listing, yet again, your own personal excuses for not going to war. Quite frankly it’s kind of sad.
JayTea Jul 19th, 2006 at 6:15 pm
frame, nice move. It s so much easier to attack the debater than the issue.
But isn’t the point that you support others dying in a war you can’t fight in because of your medical ailments?
And it’s caricature, not charicature.
Well, that’s what you brought up, frame — not why do I support the war, but why am I not fighting it. Likewise, why aren’t you over there serving as a human shield? Why don’t you have the courage of your convictions?
Personally, I find your obsession with me (my health, my family, pretty much everything about me) slightly flattering. I’m afraid the fascination isn’t returned, though.
J.
Um, Jay, a little refresher, you were the one to interject your personal issues into the thread.
The funny thing is I wasn’t even calling Jt a chickenhawk. I was calling him a hypocrit for calling out Jk for not paying the maximum tax, when he doesn’t want to make the maximum sacrifice.
Gee, I just realized JT and his fellow NH commuters are the ultimate leeches- they don’t pay taxes for Massachusetts services that help encourage job growth, but they still take the jobs.
“In New Hampshire, you have the right to be an idiot.”
It obviously is the place for JT.