Scratch,
Fair enough. Didn’t mean that literally. I’m sure he’s sensitive in his own way, but what I think shows callousness is to beat into their and their families’ heads that if we leave Iraq their deaths/injuries would have been in vain. Conflating a soldier’s death with some abstract idea of “success” of a mission is cruel in my mind. If a soldier obeys an order and dies or gets wounded, his/her sacrifice is a thing unto itself which deserves to be evaluated on its own merits.

The answer to every question in your first paragraph is yes.

Interestingly, I did not actually sit through the Clinton event…my beeper went off while I was in line at the metal detector, and I had to run off to perform some duties involving the President’s plans for later that day.. Some of my friends who stayed behind said the speech was OK and the crowd was cordial. It is no exaggeration to say that Clinton was not popular in the military, but I would think it a rare case to see anyone disrespecful at a speech on base, hand-picked or not. At this same visit, some military dependants protested near the base, with signs and everything. I thought this was disgusting and embarrassing, and I know of no other case of this happening.

Just to see a president would leave many people in awe, regardless of the caliber. Most civil people would show respect, especially at a respectful event. Rummy put himself out there and wanted to mix it up with the troops, and was fair game as a result. I don’t get the sense that presidential military events are on a par with a Town Hall meeting. Those are more the events I was alluding to where you gotta be connected, and properly dressed to get a seat, and vetted to get a question in.

I’m not. When President Clinton eulogized President Nixon, he said you have to judge someone by their whole record. As I noted above, when he was Vice President, Harry Truman went to the funeral of Tom Pendergast, the Kansas City political boss and convicted tax evader. Though severely criticized for doing so, he stated that Pendergast had been a friend. If President Bush is invited to the funeral and decides to attend, I think all he has to say is Ken Lay was a friend, and this is a time to remember his whole life. Other issues, if any, can wait until later.

Firstly, how does failing to provide sufficient armor and equipment (to such a degree that a soldier felt it necessary to publically ask Rumsfeld himself, to a round of applause) mesh with  letting them do their jobs?

Funny- you mean the soldier who was fed the question by the anti-war reporter?

Will Oliver Willis join Cindy Sheehan’s rolling hunger strike?…

Thanks for the good points.

Most of my friends are officers, but I do hear from enlisted folks as well. In general, and I assure you I mean no offense by this, I think your impression of the military is a bit “movie-ish.” That is, I have not observed the type of control you assume exists over who is in a military audience. This is based upon an audience I was in myself (for Clinton,) two that I have heard described by my brother and a close friend (for Bush,) and just my general experience with the military. There may or may not be some cherry picking for those who sit on the stage or who are in special photo ops–common sense dictates you avoid the guy who dropped trou during the parade last month–but the bulk of the crowd is just going to be several companies or squadrons or whatever from that base.

Great point, number 2. No argument with that.

No one said he’s not sensitive to their sacrifices.

I do not consider it “monstrous” to think that the troops and I are stupid. But that is the impression you give when you insist on arguing fine details when the point I made is that this president is, by and large, very popular among the military and those close to the military. Now why would these brave servicemen and women behave that way if they felt or knew that the president did not appreciate them? It’s as if you wish to show that those who cheer him do so in ignorance of your menu of issues. In true fact, they do not. Case in point: I asked the young soldier I just lunched with about armor…he said that all his vehicles had it, and that it worked well…but it was a two-edged sword because it made the Humvees tend to roll over off road. I was tempted to ask him why Bush hadn’t designed a better vehicle…

Though we didn’t talk politics, he did say that he enjoyed his work–though it includes foot patrols and a couple mortar attacks weekly–, thinks it is worthwhile, and is looking forward to re-enlisting. He also said they had all the parts and equipment they needed, for what it’s worth.

mjb now: No one said he s not sensitive to their sacrifices.

I think it’s fair to interpret the first quote as a statement on his sensitivity to their sacrifices.

I only ask because:

1. The officers and the grunts exist in different worlds. One tries not jeapordizing their “careers” and the others trying to stay alive while the first group doesn’t jeapordize their careers. Polls from these groups vary widely in who they support and why.

2. With an all volunteer army there is a pre-disposition to believe in the cause, especially for those that signed up after September 11th. In a form of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy what is in it for those orderd to fight to make an effort to keep abreast of the nuanced arguments forwarded by Bush? Let’s call it “the I don’t want to know, so I don’t have to be distracted and die” policy. Stupidity has little or nothing to do with it.

Something else that is not mentioned is that only once did Bush appear in front of a captive audience. That was a northeast event concerning No Child Left Behind, and he got roundly booed. That mistake was never made again. Do you EVER see a possibility of this at a military event? Don’t you think the first class of military know who in the second class of military can be trusted not to show displeasure while Bush is preaching to the choir?

Ken Lay was an erstwhile supporter of Bush, and it’s highly unlikely Bush would be where he is today without him. Ironically Lay wouldn’t likely be where he is today without his connections to Bush. Whether or not Bush shows up to pay his respects their co-joined places in infamy has already been recorded in the annals of the Cons – one Neo and the other the good old fashioned kind – but it all ends up the same in the end.

…don t you find it unique that a soldier asks the Secretary of Defense why his equipment isn t better?

Not at all. I had the opportunity to ask the Commandant of the Marine Corps a very pointed question about training once (training that was lacking, in my opinion.) I’ve been in many other forums with zingers from the crowd. The troops love it and the questions are always out there.

The saying “Salute the rank, not the man” comes to mind here.

That said, it is an interesting quandary as to whether Bush will attend Ken Lay’s funeral. But that’s how it is sometimes.