I didn’t move the goalposts. You cited an irrelevant study based on one state raising their minimum wage which has nothing to do with what effect a federal min wage hike would have on other states.

You say that most of the minimum wage earners are in high school and college, but you provide no proof.

Actually, I did provide proof. It comes from the very same BLS link that you provided. Over half of min wage earners are between the ages of 16-25 which happens to those of high school and college age. Now, if your contention is the majority of those between the age of 18-25 are not college students, then let’s see the evidence. The burden is on YOU, not me.

Let s be VERY conservative, and assume that 73 Million Americans are at minimum wage and recieve a $2/hr increase. Half of the recipients would be part-time. The other half full-time.

73 million is very conservative? JK, 1.9 million people earn the min wage or less (those earning less are probably in a service industry that provides tips).

They feign concern for the people that have not, but ultimately, they can t back up their false compassion. It s about self-interest. That is, the nature of conservatism.

That’s such nonsense and you know it. That’s like me saying that liberalism is all about feeling good. It doesn’t matter what it costs, doesn’t matter what the consequences are down the road, let’s just do it because it’s “the right thing to do. We care. We feel your pain.”

Don’t turn the debate into something stupid and don’t rely on the ‘guilt’ factor to strengthen your argument. If you’re for increasing the minimum wage, then support your position with facts and a clear argument instead of absurd appeals to emotion.

My opposition to a federally mandated wages has nothing to do with my self-interest. Raising the min wage doesn’t affect me at all. It’s about what is right and wrong. And it is WRONG for the federal government to set wage standards across the United States. What’s next? Is the federal government going to mandate that the state of Florida pay the same exact wages for the same job in New Jersey, even though the cost of living in Florida is less than NJ? Why not right? It’s “the right thing to do.”

Let’s be VERY conservative, and assume that 73 Million Americans are at minimum wage and recieve a $2/hr increase. Half of the recipients would be part-time. The other half full-time.

So…in the context of a U.S. $12 Trillion Gross Domestic Product, we’re talking about a “raise” that would constitute roughly 2% of U.S. GDP.

Why is it that almost every conservative policy adversely effects people that are living paycheck to paycheck? Think about it…immigration reform, abortion reform, minimum wage, health care, environmental policy.

It doesn’t matter. They are uniquely on the side of the people that HAVE, at the expense of the people that have not. U.S. Citizen or not…if you’re not what they consider to be a productive member of society….you lose, at the expense (Ken Lay) of someone else winning.

They feign concern for the people that have not, but ultimately, they can’t back up their false compassion. It’s about self-interest. That is, the nature of conservatism.

It’s not all bad–eg: excessive taxation. But whatever the issue, you have to consider conservative policy from the self-interest perspective. They don’t get all warm and fuzzy about social policy. To them, social engineering, no matter how small, will cost them money.

JK

There is no uninamity among economists that “higher minimum wages cost jobs” . Of course, it is a matter of degree, certainly a $20/hr minimum wage would cost jobs, but there is no evidence that a modest increase like the $2 Kennedy proposal will kill jobs.

A study I would like to see is what effect a higher minimum wage has on the amount of public assistance that low wage workers need. A raise in the minimum wage could be the best deficit fighting method out there.

It would shift the burden for supporting low wage workers from the state to the employers that benefit from their work. That’s a step in the right direction.

That is an interesting book that I have discussed with others. The reason is that in Economics, “Facts” as you call them (which I assume is hard data on cause and effect relationships) is extremely difficult to document. The reason for this is that there is an extremely large heap of variables on pretty much anything economical.

If Economists want to gather data on a certain hypothesis (such as min. wage and unemployment), we would have to observe a state or country that enacts a minimum wage and then control the thousands of other variables affecting unemployment.

The source you cite took on this task but it is a task nearly impossible to conquer and they were unable to control enough other variables affecting unemployment to make any serious claims.

For now, Economists are in pretty solid agreement that with all else equal, a higher minimum wage will result in less jobs.

However, my main problem with unemployment laws are that when someone hires, they are just buying labor. It is a volunteer trade on both sides. The employee and employer agree on a price for the labor and the transaction is complete. Imagine if I was buying an apple from someone for 50 cents and the government stepped in and said “Oh sorry, you have to pay $1 cuz that deal’s just too good.” Would that not rub the wrong way?

You say that most of the minimum wage earners are in high school and college, but you provide no proof. Ever think maybe a majority of those are dropouts and young adults who aren’t attending college. No, you ASS-ume that they are high school and college students. I don’t know whether they are students or not. Neither do you.

When are you going to come up with some facts?

So? The majority are between the ages of 16-25. Where would that put most of them? Oh, high school and college.

Oh and look at this other little nugget:

By occupational group, the highest proportion of workers earning at or below the Federal minimum wage occurred in service occupations, at about 8 percent. About three in four workers earning $5.15 or less in 2005 were employed in service occupations, mostly in food preparation and service jobs.

In other words, “burger flippers” for those high school kids and mostly like as a waiter or waitress in a restaurant when they hit college. The reason why most of them work in service industries is because of the flexible hours such places afford high school and college students.

In addition, you have others that are adults with no dependents and earners that are part of a dual income household.

Surprise, surprise, the level of employment went up in the New Jersey study when the minimum wage was hiked over neighboring Pennsylvania s level.

Completely irrelevant as we’re talking about the federal minimum wage. I have no problem with states enacting their own min wage laws. However, it is counter productive at the federal level especially when it can be absorbed more easily in Connecticut than it can in Arkansas.

Hardly consistent with teenage workers working part-time after school. But then again, for cons facts come “from the gut”, and not from actual study.

Surprise, surprise, the level of employment went up in the New Jersey study when the minimum wage was hiked over neighboring Pennsylvania’s level.

It has been backed up with facts. You chose to ignore them based on the source. That’s YOUR problem, not mine.

Says the one who complains that the media is left wing propaganda.

I never said any such thing.

Yes, yes…deficits are a different issue, but I bring it up because I simply smile when I see the Jay’s of the world act all authoritative on stuff like this. It’s laughable, now, that a party that used to pride itself on being “fiscally responsible,” can argue that a $2.00 hike in the minimum wage will hurt the economy, and hurt the very people it is designed to benefit.

They’re not telling the truth. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that just under half (about 47%) of Minimum Wage earners are over the age of 25.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2002tbls.htm

They like to float this myth about the high-school burger flipper. It’s simply not true. There are people out there that do, unfortunately, try to support themselves or their family on one minimum wage job, or two.

I don’t know how many minimum wage hikes have been enacted since the law took effect, but I’d really like for one of these clowns to conclusively prove some sort of cause and effect, other than simply theorizing or posturing that it all makes common sense.

Did it happen, or not? Did the sky fall?

I thought so.

JK

George W. Bush is the anti-Christ
http://bushisantichrist.com

These are backed up by facts. That you choose to ignore them based on the source, that’s YOUR problem.

Only trying to be fair and balanced here.

Ya, that never happens on the right:

“Most hard leftists really don t give a gnat s *ss about the death of these military people (most are republicans) anyway.”

A real research paper details the methods and detailed breakdown of the statistics used to make their claims. This lobbying firm does none of this.

“Facts? We don’t need no stinkin’ facts!”- Crazy Jay.

“Your dismissal of a source based on the person who operates is nothing but ad hominem and intellectual laziness. ”

Says the one who complains that the media is left wing propaganda.

The most glaring example to me was when he launched into a supposed “debunking” of fears of global overpopulation. Stossel chooses in this passage to argue against people on the basis of the fact that if you crammed a global population of six billion people into Texas, you would come up with a population density that is less than that of some major metropolitan areas like New York City.

Anyone see the problem with approaching the argument this way?

He is the absolute worst kind of propogandist and tries all the time to pass himself off as some kind of vox populi.

You don’t score any points simply because you don’t like the source of the information. So chop chop yourself.