And what about those children that are killed by bombs or in the crossfire? Or the children that suffer from malnutrition when they are unable to obtain clean food and drinking water?

Abortion either eliminates them from the picture, because they had been, sometime in the past, aborted, or abortion adds to their number.

Do you only care about the welfare of a children before they re born?
Do you only want them sucked out of the womb, or scraped out like old paint before they’re born?

And, as for capital punishment, why should the state be involving in the murder of any of it s citizens?
“Murder” is the unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
This is obviously not what is happening , either in war, or in capital punishment. In theory, I don’t see the point in taking a life for a life, but I can appreciate the desire of others’ for retribution.

Here s a novel thought – if you don t like abortions, no one is forcing you to get one.
If you don’t like robbery, don’t steal. Now, shall we send the Police force home?

it would be more beneficial to the cause to educate rather then lecture
Is there anybody in the country who hasn’t been “educated” as to the wrongness of crime, as well as its inevitable consequences?
How well has that worked?

we do live in a democracy where everyone has the same rights to live their life

If you can survive the nine months, that is. Until then, over a million and a half babies a year don’t have that right (hence, “Right – to – Life”)

why put a ban on minors if you re going to include the provision in the case of rape or incest?
You misunderstood me: I meant that, in the case of rape or incest, the potential mother will choose to have an abortion. As a minor, the parent or guardian can choose.

There is a case where I live right now, in which the 16 year old rape victim of a 30 year old man, wants to have the child (so does he, by the way). The parents are against it. I say they are wrong, but they have the right to veto it.

Todd B. I congratulate you on pretty much exhausting all the pro – abortion talking points. Well done.

How cute. Lecturing me on talking points… ironic, isn’t it.

Considering you didn’t answer any part of my last comment, I assume that you can no longer defend your position which makes this debate is over (and you’re quite a hypocrite regarding your stance on “pro-life” issues). Good luck trying to get anything accomplished if you refuse to open your eyes to the world around you.

Forfeit, eh? Let’s see. The score is as follows:

Zython: 12
Save_Ferris, Frank_D, & Dugger: 0

I am not opposed to either just war, where grown men and women volunteer to participate; or capital punishment. where grown men and women. knowing full well the posssible / probable consequences of their actions.

Again, I don’t see how that was answering for putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting my stance on abortion, but, whatever.

And what about those children that are killed by bombs or in the crossfire? Or the children that suffer from malnutrition when they are unable to obtain clean food and drinking water? Do they volunteer and sign up to participate in that? I think it’s pretty selfish to think that the only ones that suffer in war are the soldiers (who sign up mostly because they are unable to afford a decent education in the supposed “land of opportunity”). Do you only care about the welfare of a children before they’re born? Soldiers are not the only victims of war, don’t you know? [1], [2].

And, as for capital punishment, why should the state be involving in the murder of any of it’s citizens? Isn’t it a bit hypocritical to kill someone to punish them for killing someone else?

I think you don’t grasp the meaning of the word “compromise”, but, whatever. Here’s a novel thought – if you don’t like abortions, no one is forcing you to get one. I just can’t stand people that are so close minded, that they refuse to see that it would be more beneficial to the cause to educate rather then lecture since, as far as I know, we do live in a democracy where everyone has the same rights to live their life not just half of the country. I don’t like the idea of abortions, but instead of trying to impose limitations on people I choose to spend my time informing them about other alternatives (adoption or health clinics and counciling).

And, just out of curiosity, why put a ban on minors if you’re going to include the provision in the case of rape or incest? Obviously if a minor has been sexually assaulted by a family member or close friend, they’re not exactly going to get a blessing of a guardian for an abortion. Does this mean that you’re actually encouraging teenage pregnancy?

You said something about words in your mouth.

I am not opposed to either just war, where grown men and women volunteer to participate; or capital punishment. where grown men and women. knowing full well the posssible / probable consequences of their actions.

I am opposed to abortions, especially beyond the point where the babies could be born alive.

You want compromise? Anortions only in the following instances:
1) Where childbirth will surely endanger the mother’s life;
2) When the potential mother is, or can be proved to be, incompetent;
3) If the potential mother is the victim of rape or incest, and, if she is not a minor, she chooses not to have it.

I think anybody who says there is an easy answer to the abortion issue is not thinking clearly.

So true, but the problem is that those who do think there is an easy answer to the abortion issue are usually the ones that are displayed in the media today (cue the protests on both sides that you see every year on the news) – I even cringe when I see how far some politicians pander to the abortion issue (the libertarian side of me said that the government shouldn’t of even been involved in the Terry Schiavo case).

I’m not very vocal on this issue because, quite frankly, I don’t rate it as high as some other issues which determine how I vote. I do personally oppose abortion (I support the bans for PBA), I oppose capital punishment, and I would consider myself a pacifist when it comes to military and war issues.

I realize it might not be the popular point of view around here, but I very rarely find myself siding with one side or the other (and even more rarely find myself voting for either one of the main parties).

Also, I didn’t mean to come off as condescending in that last paragraph, I hope it wasn’t construed that way.

Actually pretty good post(s). I’ve done the old double post a few times.

But you do understand the antithesis to this

“Since you wear the  pro-life  badge with pride, I can only assume that you are against war, capital punishment, and euthanasia, right?”

is also ‘true’. If one suports abortion, one should not, in principle, be against captial punishment etc.

I think anybody who says there is an easy answer to the abortion issue is not thinking clearly.

Dugger

Of course, someone who thinks abortion is OK, thinks being  pro – life is ridiculous.
I wear the  pro – life badge with pride.
Especially when  pro – choice equals dead babies.

Argh, I wrote a whole reply to this and the blog didn’t take it, so here goes nothing. Please don’t try to put words in my mouth. I never said I think abortion was OK. I just think the two sides of the debate are equally rediculous. Pass laws providing alternatives to abortions, if you must. Pass laws making the procedure safer. Saying you’re going to flat out ban abortions, is just crazy. Do you really think that the second abortions are banned in the United States that they’re just magically going to stop? No, because nothing makes someone want to do something more then someone telling them they are forbidden to do it. What are you going to do? Throw them in jail? Good luck with that.

I think that the problem with both sides is they refuse to meet somewhere in the middle. Both sides what it their way, end of story. Why don’t you get together and come up with ways to provide education and alternatives for women in these situations rather then trying to tell them what they can do with their lives. That is what it means to be “pro-life” to me – respecting everyone.

Also, since you wear the “pro-life” “badge” with pride, I assume you’re also against war, capital punishment, and euthanasia? I mean, you can’t just pick and choose which ideas you want to be against if you call yourself “pro-life”.

Of course, someone who thinks abortion is OK, thinks being  pro – life is ridiculous.
I wear the  pro – life badge with pride.
Especially when  pro – choice equals dead babies.

Number one, please don’t put words in my mouth. Where in that sentence did I say I thought abortion was OK? I think both labels are as rediculous as the supporters you see on television in the rallies – the term “pro-choice” is just as rediculous. It’s crazy to expect that banning abortion outright will magically stop all abortions in the United States, though. Pass laws to make it safer, pass laws to provide alternatives to abortions, but just don’t flat out try to ban them (especially because any time you try to tell someone they can’t do something it only makes them want to do it more).

That is the problem with the “pro-life” and “pro-choice” movements – they don’t want to meet in the middle on the issues, they just want things their way. It’d make a much bigger impact in the movement if you educated others about alternative options rather then try to tell them what they should do with their lives.

Since you wear the “pro-life” “badge” with pride, I can only assume that you are against war, capital punishment, and euthanasia, right?

But you would vote for a pro-choice candidate? Next you’ll be claiming she is a also a member of NARAL and would attract both feminist voters from the Democrats and still keep the anti-abortion wing of the republican happy.

Seriously, why all the speculation? Isn’t this just another “Colin Powell” pipe dream by some republicans?

Watch the anti-abortion wing of your party mostly stay home and get your ass kicked big time.

And miss a chance to make history by putting a stroing black woman in the White House with an (R) after her name?
Surely you jest.

Maybe you are kidding: if they wanted to play the same games as the republicans do
That was a joke, right?

The real entertainment value surrounding a Condi Rice ticket would be in watching the black  leadership and feminists try to destroy the first candidate who had accomplished everything that their organizations supposedly stood for.

If the republican leadership want to push her down the throats of some of their party, I say go for it. Watch the anti-abortion wing of your party mostly stay home and get you ass kicked big time.