Zarqawi Dead
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I’m glad he’s dead, but he’s taken so many from us and the Iraqis and it’s not like he was working on his own…
UPDATE: Of course, leave it to Fox to take it one step too far. According to the anchor on Fox, the apparent death of Zarqawi will unite all the Iraqi factions, bring peace to the land, etc. Come on.
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Everything after “but” is bravo sierra…
Yay!! Ollie is glad the top terrorist in Iraq has been killed…
…then he returns to hating the US and refusing to acknowledge that this is good news. You are truly a POS!
It’s too soon to tell how much impact this will have on the sectarian violence. Either his followers will lose heart, or within the next few weeks we’ll have to memorize the new name of the insurgency leadership.
As for him, though, the classic Onion headline applies: “Terrorists Surprised to Find Selves in Hell.”
Sounds like your response is the same as that of U.S. and Iraqi officials: this is very good news, but is not the end of violence.
I don’t know what they said on Fox News, but Zarqawi was a major roadblock to any sort of cooperation between Sunnis and Shiites.
Panic and Frank-
So… you’re saying that killing al-Zarqawi will end all violence in Iraq? Now and forever?
LB: No
dumbass
LB: No.
To claim OW hates the US is pure stupidity.
What’s your point? I wish willy clinton would have taken the numerous oppurtunities offered between 1996 and 1998 and killed or captured Osama Bin Laden.
I would rather Bush had killed him in 2002. I would also rather not allow Bush to further confuse the public by declaring this a victory against the insurgency, when in fact it is a victory against al-Qaeda.
Anyway, the message from the dead-enders remains, predictably, “living proof” that Bush worship is the only form of patriotism imaginable to them. Real patriotism would have been to vote against the guy who lied us into a pointless war.
But we already knew that from their response to the Iran nuclear deal. “Bush can do no wrong and Democrats are all cowardly traitors about whom no amount of vitriol and hate is inappropriate.”
Too bad President Limpdick didn’t pull the trigger on Zarqawi in 2002 like he should have. Anyway, this doesn’t change the fundamental facts that a) the American troop presence is fuelling, not quelling, the insurgency; and b) internal insurgents are much more important and dangerous to Iraq and to us than the foreign al Qaeda fighters. Nice symbolically, but small potatoes practically, especially in comparison to getting the defense and interior ministers named. Unforunately, we’ll still have to pull out eventually, and Iraq is still a failed military venture for the Richie Rich presidency, no matter deeply the right wing wants everyone to blow him.
This kind of response is so typical. How long have we listened to the shrieks of, “How come we haven’t captured or killed Zarqawi??!?”, yet when it happens there’s the onslaught of “Yeah buts” and “This means nothing” responses.
You know what people? Simply saying, “It’s great that he’s no longer around” doesn’t automatically morph you into a Bush supporter.
What do you want pedro? A full day of us saying good, something went right for a change? We’re glad it went right, we’re glad he’s dead. But we don’t think this is going to change anything. Maybe we’ll be wrong, I certainly hope so.
I love how you guys always want to claim that one lollipop is a complete solution for getting the taste of a whole wheel-barrow of shit pies out of your moth.
And I’m sure that when Serbia surrendered and we got milosovich, you were cheering up a storm and not making any negative comments about clinton, too.
mmmmhmmmm…
Gee, who could have predicted this? All war long, Libs have been saying “Bush is incompetent for not killing Zarqawi!!!”. Then, once it’s done, the reaction is “Ehhh… No big Deal.”
This is huge, guys. And to downplay it is nothing short of abominable.
This is all living proof that the leftist, america laster liberals will NEVER be satisfied with any action we take as long as bush is in command. They would cut off America’s nose to spite her face.
feh.
Yawn. No surprise that Bush supporters see Zarqawi’s death primarily as a political tool to use against Democrats. This is the truest sign of the unseriousness of Bush and his supporters with regard to their war. Personally, I’m glad Zarqawi’s dead, especially for Nick Berg and the bombing of the Samarra mosque. But the war was as stupid decision as it is unwinnable, and we should never have been in the position to have our citizens beheaded and mosques bombed to begin with. Above all, we should certainly not let the GOP use a terrorist’s belated death to confuse anyone on this point.
Granted, Zarqawi’s death marks a great blow to insurgent symbolic leadership, but to claim that his death will benefit US troops operationally is bullshit. The right is going to blow this out of proportion.
Not much has changed.
“promote bad news”
That sums it up how the right wing sees the world. Nobody’s promoting anything. We’re directing sunshine on a shameful problem TO ENSURE THAT IT DOES NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. Just another way in which the right fundmentally misunderstands free societies.
Got the bastard. Only took three years. At this rate, we should be out Iraq by 2176. Mission Accomplished!
TomY…
I thought NPR’s coverage this morning was interesting. Many mentions, in telephone interviews with various people, about how this is a good thing for the Iraqi PM, the Iraqi Parliament, the Iraqi people, the Sunnis, and the Shiites. Nary a word about how this is good for Bush. A perfect example of how a thing can be conspicuous in its absence…for it was the GOOD things that Bush has done that made this a victory for the Iraqis moreso than the Americans.
Many mistakes have been made, but this is not one of them…and Bush only benefits to the extent that the Iraqis benefit.
Wolf…
I love how you guys always want to claim that one lollipop is a complete solution…
I missed the part where anyone claimed this was a complete solution to anything. Could you point it out to me?
Save Farris wrote:
That was a rhetorical question, right?
By contrast, where’s the coverage of the naming of the defense and interior ministers? If I thought this war was winnable, then *that* would be what I was getting exited about.
Uh… no! We see Zarqawi’s death primarily as a political tool to use against Al Qaida.
My question for Democrats, especially those falling in the “Yeah, but…” camp: Why does this news need equivocation, yet Haditha never rated any? Why are you so willing to undercut good news for the US Military but fall all over yourselves to promote bad news against the same group?
TomY…
Glad you brought it up. The naming of the two ministers was also named this morning as a victory for the Iraqi PM…and I agreed wholeheartedly. Imagine even a year ago talking about a politcal victory for the Iraqi PM.
Notice how the usual suspects are trying to reframe the debate. Example:
How long have we listened to the shrieks of, How come we haven t captured or killed Zarqawi??!?
This is a red herring. The debate WRT Zarqawi has been why this incompetent administration didn’t take Zarqawi out when he was operating in territory controlled by the US and its allies. This despite the fact this administration was citing Zarqawi as a reason (along with WMD) why we had to go to war with Iraq.
I know Zarqawi thought Zarqawi was VERY important…
You do realize a major al qaeda terrorist is dead right? Let’s look at their history. Please take note that a couple of minor incidents occurred prior to the Bush administration. Also, this isn’t a complete list.
1993 Bombing of World Trade Center; 6 killed.
1993 Killing of U.S. soldiers in Somalia.
1994 Investigation of the WTC bombing reveals that it was only a small part of a massive attack plan that included hijacking a plane and crashing it into CIA headquarters.
1996 Truck bomb explodes outside Khobar Towers military complex in Saudi Arabia; 19 American servicemen killed, hundreds of others injured.
1998 Bombing of U.S. embassies in East Africa; 224 killed including 12 Americans.
1999 Plot to bomb millennium celebrations in Seattle foiled when customs agents arrest an Algerian smuggling explosives into the U.S. Other Algerians subsequently arrested were “Afghan alumni.”
Jordanian police arrested members of a cell planning attacks against Western tourists.
10/2000 Bombing of the USS Cole in port in Yemen; 17 U.S. sailors killed.
9/11/2001 Destruction of WTC, attack on Pentagon. Over 3000 killed.
4/11/2002 Explosion at ancient synogogue in Tunisia leaves 17 dead, including 11 German tourists.
5/2002 Car explodes outside hotel in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 14, including 11 French citizens.
6/2002 Bomb explodes outside American Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12.
10/2002 Nightclub bombings in Bali, Indonesia, kill 202, mostly Australian citizens.
Suicide attack on a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, kills 16.
5/2003 Suicide bombers kill 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
Four bombs kill 33 people, targeting Jewish, Spanish, and Belgian sites in Casablanca, Morocco.
8/2003 Suicide car bomb kills 12, injures 150, at Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia.
11/2003 Explosions rock a Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, housing compound killing 17.
Suicide car bombers simultaneously attack two synagogues in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 25 and injuring hundreds. The following week a British bank in Istanbul is bombed.
3/2004 Ten terrorists bombs explode almost simultaneously during the morning rush hour in Madrid, Spain, killing 202 and injuring more than 1,400. A Moroccan affiliate of al-Qaeda claims responsibility.
5/29 31/2004 Terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, then take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound. After a stand-off, three of the four assailants escape, leaving 22 people dead, all but three of them foreigners.
6/11 19/2004 Terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson, Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Nearly a week after his capture, photos of his body are posted on an Islamist website. Saudi security forces find and kill four suspected terrorists, including the self-proclaimed military leader of al-Qaeda in Saudi Arabia, after they are seen dumping a body.
12/6/2004 Militants, believed to be linked to Al-Qaeda, drive up to the U.S. consulate in Jiddah, Saudi Arabia, storm the gates, and kill 5 consulate employees, none of whom were American. Saudi security forces subdue the attackers, killing four.
I forgot, Iraq isn’t part of the war on terror…
I like multi-tasking fine. I just don’t think fighting a pointless war and going into debt to the Chinese to pay for it is the kind of multi-tasking we should be doing.
“Personally, I m glad Zarqawi s dead”
That’s very big of you Tommy….
How come it is always either, or for you people? Either we stay the course in Afghanistan or we fight terrorists in Iraq. Either we continue in Iraq, or we protect our borders at home. The United States Military can multi-task!!
Or is the right wing’s unseriousness best shown by the fact that Bush is draining equipment funds from Iraq to beef up border security *while simultaneously* trying to pass an estate tax repeal.
GOP priorities: 1) pay back campaign contributors; 2) hurt Democrats.
Unfortunately, governing doesn’t make the list. Please, tell me again about how bad the Democrats are, guys!
“American and Iraqi officials all muted their high spirits today with a recognition that violence is bound to continue, a point underscored by a midday blast in eastern Baghdad that killed at least a dozen people, news services reported.
“Unfortunately, this kind of violence has become routine,” Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said in a televised interview.”
OMG! Who are these traitors, these America haters with their muted reactions! Find them! String them up! Put the reporters in jail until they reveal their sources!
“And to downplay it is nothing short of abominable.”
And who could have predicted that the right would still cling desperately to their fantasy world of easy fixes. Who could have predicted that the right would label anyone not cheering loud enough to be a traitor?
Zarqawi is dead. Thats the good news. Now how do you end the civil war he helped to touch off? Clap harder?
To make an analogy: I’m glad we killed Pablo Escobar, but the fact that he was a bad guy who got killed doesn’t change the fact that the Drug War is a failed and stupid policy.
For the chorus of quasi-informed Bush supporters around here, the left has been saying that this entire operation in Iraq is a huge clusterfuck. It was wrong to start a war of aggression and it is wrong to continue when the cost is so high both in our national treasure and in our soldier’s lives.
These day-to-day victories and defeats sometimes take the focus of this massively larger issue. Namely, we are fighting insurgents of our own making rather than jihadists, who are still plotting ways to harm our country. This explains why the vast majority of the left supported invading Afghanistan and why we wish the focus had remained there to the end.
What’s so strange is that most of my conservative friends have of course left the good ship, George W. Bush, but I suppose there are dead-enders in every culture.
“This definition might be used to describe Ollie and the rest of the dims on this blog.”
Oh mercy.
“Why are you so willing to undercut good news for the US Military but fall all over yourselves to promote bad news against the same group?”
Per TomY, it is not undercutting the good news of Zarqawi’s death to dampen the kind of triumphalism that has been a hallmark of our disastrous Iraq policy from “Mission Accomplished” to “Bring to ‘em on.” It is indeed good news that Zarqawai is dead but should we all be demanding, like Malkin and her idiot minions, for a better look at the corpse?: “Here s hoping they go the Uday/Qusay route and release the autopsy photos.” Hell, why don’t we bring the body back to the States so we can drag it through the streets of DC and spike his head on the top of the Washington Monument. That’ll show those bastards just how fucking savage we are.
You see Save, the whole point is that we are not like the terrorists, get it? We aren’t supposed to kill innocent civilians and we aren’t supposed to take inordinate glee in death and destruction. We are supposed to be civilized. Remember?
Apparently, OW, you’re not applauding enthusiastically enough. Try adding a few shouts of “Hooray for us!”
Maybe that will satisfy your wingnut readers.
Quaker…
Apparently, OW, you re not applauding enthusiastically enough…
Maybe, in the same way that Oliver likes to count the number of times Bush mentions Bin Laden in a speech, it would be instructive to count the number of words before the “but…” In this case, it was 4.
& for it was the GOOD things that Bush has done that made this a victory for the Iraqis moreso than the Americans.
Chicken and egg dilemma. Zarqawi wasn’t a menace to the Iraqi people until after Bush’s decision to invade Iraq and destabilize the country.
Many mistakes have been made, but this is not one of them& and Bush only benefits to the extent that the Iraqis benefit.
True. But still, how do we quantify this event? Surely it’s a good thing that such an apparent villanous monster is out of operation. But where does it sit on the scale of “victories” when you consider that the war in Iraq, itself, has killed more people than Zarqawi ever did?
In reality, how much of a “benefit” is it when you consider, only after thousands of civilian deaths, were we finally able to eliminate a creature our very actions had helped to create?
NOW if the Bush Administration actually kills Osama( Well… I don’t think about him much.-GWB). I was happy that we got that idiot except why are we not solely hunting down the people who attacked us? If Bush ACTUALLY does what he is supposed to do and not let his narcissism get in the way by capturing and killing all the 9-11 plotters, then as Mr. Burns says on the Simpsons—”Smithers I owe you a Coke”.
Idealogue: an often blindly partisan advocate or adherent of a particular ideology.
This definition might be used to describe Ollie and the rest of the dims on this blog. Oh, that’s right you people are a very bi-partisan lot…
It’s funny how the conservatives I know in real life bear no resemblance whatsoever to the psychotic right wing ideologues you see on OW.com. What is it about the internet and talk radio that makes you wingers so crazy?
Where’s Ann Coulter with her always timely remarks about the dead?
Now if we could only find that 6 foot 4 Saudi with diabetes carrying a portable dialysis machine…..
Irony isn’t just dead. It was bludgeoned.
Panic wrote:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. That can’t be right. After all, no one could have imagined terrorists using a plane as a missle prior to 9/11.
gay al, you better talk to Paul(frameone) about this anger and rage of yours. He was just castigating the republicans for wanting zarquawis head on the wash. monument. Where do you get such hate and anger from?
Curmudgeon says:” Zarqawi wasn t a menace to the Iraqi people until after Bush s decision to invade Iraq and destabilize the country.”
Yea, but Uday and Quasay and Saddam were. So was it a good thing we got them too?
So if we kill bin Laden all violence will end, right? You would still find a way to turn that into bad news.
BTW your hero clinton could have had bin laden a few times.
“So if we kill bin Laden all violence will end, right? You would still find a way to turn that into bad news.”
Speaking as a NYer, I just want the fucker dead. I don’t really care about any political implications or whatever.
Remember, Wanted: Dead or Alive from the President. He and his supporters may have forgotten about that, but those of us in DC and NYC are still in that mentality. Kill the bastard already.
“BTW your hero clinton could have had bin laden a few times. ”
And your heros the Republican party called it “Wag the dog”.
How soon we forget.
I think this fits quite well:
http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=18512
Of course it’s good that Uday and Qusay are dead. It’s just that it has no bearing on the monumental disaster that we now find ourselves trapped in.
I think there’s just ONE thing we all can agree on: It’ll be awhile before we can tell whether Zarqawi’s death is good or bad. If the violence lessens and Iraq starts getting its act together, it was good. If not, then we’re all getting punk’d again with another “We’re turning the corner.”
But remember, Al Qaeda is just a small fraction of the problemin Iraq. Most of the people causing trouble are native Iraqis who have nothing to do with Al Qaeda. The Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds still hate each others’ guts. Osama is still out there. The Bush administration is still chock full of psychopaths and dimwits.
It is quite clear that regardless of what positive news comes out of Iraq, the leftists in america will not be satisfied until a magical deus ex machina drops from the sky (or perhaps from Al Gore, the only “deity” the left seems to worship) saying “This was the final blow! Iraq will now be a peaceful democracy!”
Except of course, that will never happen. Ergo, the “america laster” liberals will continue mewling until a democrat is elected president, at which time all will be forgotten…..
Maybe some of our wingers would care to make some predictions. How major is Zarqawi’s death in stopping the insurgency (aka civil war) in Iraq? Will it be the death knell, or will it have little effect?
My own prediction is there will be little lasting effect, that soon the WH will be promoting new stories about some other notorious Iraqi bad guy as the kingpin who must be stopped.
“gay al, you better talk to Paul(frameone) about this anger and rage of yours.”
Um, I didn’t hear Al calling anyone a traitor for not clapping loud enough.
Hey Ollie-
“According to the anchor on Fox, the apparent death of Zarqawi will unite all the Iraqi factions, bring peace to the land, etc.”
Is this an exact quote, or are you making shit up again? My vote is for the latter. I have not seen one conservative person say that zarqawi’s death will end the violence in Iraq. We simply believe that it is GOOD NEWS that this shitbag is dead.
Horay! We killed Zarqawi. Now, can we leave Iraq not before it takes another three plus years to kill his replacement?
leftists in america will not be satisfied until a magical deus ex machina drops from the sky [irrelevant wingnut dig at Al Gore] saying This was the final blow! Iraq will now be a peaceful democracy!
In other words, leftists will not be satisfied until we’ve completed our stated objective and can come home. Those rat bastards, how dare they.
Do you suggest, good doctor, that we must remain in Iraq forever, or at least until the Rapture, when, obstensibly, the Islamic problem will take care of itself. Tell me, what, exactly, is the wingnut trigger for our being able to leave a soveriegn country to its own devices?
drpedo, you ignorant slut. We’ve spent nearly $300 billion dollars, or over $11,000 per Iraqi to get to a point after 3 years we cheer the death of a man in no way connected to the 9-11 attacks. Al Zarqawi was only a menace to our interests in Iraq because we chose to invade Iraq.
Like I said, I am proud to have many conservative friends. We talk often about our shared passion and vision for the great future of this country. It is only here that I find morons still struggling to support a lost cause.
“We simply believe that it is GOOD NEWS that this shitbag is dead.”
And you also want to find a way to use it to club liberals. Because this administration’s priority is not, nor has it ever been, winning the war. It’s been to crucify liberals and to repay campaign contributors. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
“I m not so sure this is a significant blow to Al Qaeda, however. Al Qaeda is an ideology, not a military organization with a traditional command structure, and I suspect the actual impact on their day-to-day operations will be minimal.” – Little Green Footballs, today.
INSUFFICIENT REJOICING ALERT! INSUFFICIENT REJOICING ALERT!Remember, it’s reasonable analysis when conservatives say it. But when liberals say it, it’s evidence of our cowardly, traitorous decadence, as well as our support of terrorism. More idiotic conservative PC: only conservatives are allowed to say such things; liberals must either praise the president or keep quiet.
DCPanic, what the fuck happened to the Republicans that they now support wiretapping, disdain the right of habeas corpus and aggressive foreign wars at such a huge cost to our national treasure, military and prestige? I mean you can joke about this all you want but it doesn’t change the fact that you have clearly lost your way.
Did we get the U.N.’s permission to bomb Zarqawi? Kerry wants to know. Also, I hope we didn’t illegally wiretap Zarqawi, that’s a violation of his rights and Barbi Boxer will be mighty mad. Furthermore, did we even make an attempt to serve an arrest warrant? Pelosi is on the case…
“Except of course, that will never happen.”
Jesus not even the war’s biggest supporters believe that Iraq will ever be a peaceful democracy. I think we all appreciate your honesty pedro.
“Claiming republicans disdain the right of habeas corpus is as moronic a statement as I have seen on this subject.”
They certainly apply it somewhat selectively, though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant#September_18.2C_2001_Presidential_Military_Order
“Second, If a terrorist is planning an attack (which they are by the way) then I think we should know about it. If a suspected terrorist outside the US calls my house, please record it.”
When a conservative write things like this it’s clear that they have no idea what they’re talking about, that they don’t even know what the basic facts are or what the issue is really all about. This is the rhetoric of deception and ignorance.
Claiming republicans disdain the right of habeas corpus is as moronic a statement as I have seen on this subject. Second, If a terrorist is planning an attack (which they are by the way) then I think we should know about it. If a suspected terrorist outside the US calls my house, please record it. As much as you don’t want to admit that Iraq is part of the war on terrorism, it is. Al Queda is responsible for 9/11 and a myriad of other attacks. Who is the leader of Al Queda in Iraq? Zarqawi. See how they are connected.
DCPanic, I don’t know whether Republicans as a whole oppose right of habeas corpus or not. The Bush Justice Department has certainly done damage to your credibility on that claim by suspending Jose Padilla’s rights. Do you care? I also don’t think any of the aforementioned Senators were opposed to a program of the government spying on international calls, and with FISA court approval, were in favor of domestic calls as well. You can try to conflate these things together in your puerile defense, but nobody in congress opposed this. It’s only the illegal wiretaps that have “lefties” and Libertarians up in arms. As for the war of terror ™, please do some reading before you spout off. There was no effective al Queda presence in Iraq prior to our occupation. Al Zarqawi merged his organization to al Queda in 2004. He is part of the al Queda that we helped create with this war.
Like I said, it is a shame that the only people defending this administration are the least informed.
I’ve read that the al-Qaeda operation in Iraq is basically a branding decision that was acceptable to all parties: Zarqawi, bin Laden, and the U.S. Operationally, they really don’t have anything to do with one another; but it serves a solid propaganda purpose for “al Qaeda of Iraq” to be fighting us there, just as it serves the Bush Adminstration’s domestic political purposes to be perceived as fighting al Qaeda rather than Iraqis. This despite the fact that Iraq’s and our own real troubles lie with the sectarian militia groups, not the foreign fighters, even if they are the most media minded. Of course, this is the whole al Qaeda model in a nutshell — tiny, compartmentalized groups, funded by “the base” but retaining total localized operational control, with bin Laden as a figurehead. And we’ve utterly enabled and vindicated the practicality of that model, dead Zarqawi or not. Too bad we couldn’t capture him, humiliate him, and marginalize him with a trial and a cage, the way Peruvians did the Shining Path’s Guzman.
Gosh, it’s just as well it’s guaranteed that anyone whose private conversations are being recorded is a terrorist then, otherwise it would be a horrible violation of the US Constitution.
Also, I hate to burst your bubble, but Iraq is not connected to 9/11 at all. Zarqawi was in no way affiliated with Bin Laden. His organisation was completely different and seperate to Osama’s, and set up before al-Qaeda to boot. He only changed the name to “al-Qaeda in Iraq” late in the day as a PR move. They weren’t the same organisation at all.
DC, there was no Al Qaeda in Iraq prior to our invasion. See how thats connected to our irratation?
While this IS great news for the WoT, one high profile death isn’t going to be enough.
Analogy time: This is like clipping a weed and saying the yard is de-weeded. It’s going to grow back.
It’s a good start, but we need to work further to hurt the various terrorist movements, or this step will be undone.
But with George W. “I’m not concerned about [Osama bin Laden].” Bush as Commander in Chief, and with “turning a corner” enough times to make a complete circle, I don’t have much faith that these steps will be taken.
However, I do hope that they will be. So prove me wrong, Bush, I dare you to prove me wrong.
Great analogy zython.
It IS like weeding a garden. That is why there is no “endpoint”. That is why it doesn’t matter whether or not zarquawi was involved in 9/11. A new “weed will always pop up, and needs to be mowed down.
That is why the leftist crying about “when is it ALLLL just going to end?” is so freaking puerile and ridiculous….
Sorry to interrupt the wingnut circle-jerk with news of more killing in the Iraqi civil war — time for you guys to clean the mess off your keybords and start complaining again about dire threats to the institution of marriage.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1658957.htm
OT, but can they tell us now how many legs Zarqawi had when he was killed?
American troops are fuelling the insurgency, and they are irrelevant to the political solution that will end it. Time to go home. How many Americans will die before the ‘Cons wake up?
Almost forgot:
That is why the leftist crying about when is it ALLLL just going to end? is so freaking puerile and ridiculous…
Straw
Man
All of them.
It IS like weeding a garden. That is why there is no endpoint . That is why it doesn t matter whether or not zarquawi was involved in 9/11. A new weed will always pop up, and needs to be mowed down.
Either you have absolutely NO idea how weeding works, or you are agreeing my point. You can’t “mow down” weeds. They will continue to survive as long as the roots are intact. With the current administration in charge, we are just cutting the weed and declaring “Mission Accomplished” because we don’t want to get our hands dirty.
I (and I doubt many liberals are either) aren’t saying there’s an “endpoint”. More weeds WILL pop up, but we also need a way to get rid of the current ones effectively.
Basically, I’m saying while the death of Zarqawi is a good short-term step in the WoT, we need an effective long-term solution. And no, killing all the terrorist is NOT a long-term solution. You can’t shoot an ideology, you need to combat it with other ideas.
Hey….Caruso, Frank, Pedro, et.al..
Let’s talk in a month about how glad we are that he’s dead. Deal?
It’s good news if his death brings us closer to an end to the war in Iraq.
I’m sure you’re all feeling your oats right now…a brief confirmation of simple themes, like “Axis of Evil,” and “Dead or Alive.” You’ve got a hard on. (Or an orgasm, if you’re a female Red State’er.)
You guys like simple themes. You’re simple people. I can appreicate that. Even if I feel some measure of sympathy.
Bush said himself, in a rare moment of clarity, that this war isn’t about capturing one person, right?
A high-level enemy leader, is dead. Let’s see how it plays out, shall we?
After all…that’s your rallying cray for the Haditha stuff, right?
D’oh!
Other than that…carry on. Continue being ignorant. It amuses me.
JK
Another long, drawn out thread where the left still hates Bush (yea, Zarqawi is dead! Of course the reason he was there, namely our invasion, hasn’t changed, but yea!) and the Right wants to declare the Iraq invasion a success in the “WoT” (I really hate that phrase and all the executive overreach it allows) and Bush vindicated. So in the end no one has jumped the fence. Stunning.
Even if you think that the whole Zarqawi/Bush dynamic boiled down to two criminal assholes struggling to completely f*ck up Iraq, it’s good to have Zarqawi taking a dirt nap. Sure it’s likely another figurehead will rise to take Zarqawi’s place (how many times have we killed the al Qaeda #3?) and the sectarian violence may have well outgrown any al-Qeada influence, but for today let’s just call it a “win” for the Iraqis and call it a day.
“More weeds WILL pop up, but we also need a way to get rid of the current ones effectively.”
I don’t know, I think this current method is pretty effective.
1-F-16 Falcon
2-500 lb General Purpose bombs (GP82)
2-Laser guidance systems
=
BOOM
drpedro Says:
June 8th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
I don t know, I think this current method is pretty effective.
1-F-16 Falcon
2-500 lb General Purpose bombs (GP82)
2-Laser guidance systems
2,480 American soldiers killed in action
XXX,XXX Iraqis killed
No end in sight to the war
=
“Combat operations in Iraq have ended” — George W Bush
Ah yes, drpedo, $300+ billion to make a boogeyman and blow him up. That’s quality money spent.
drpedro’s response is EXACTLY the mindset that is causing us to lose the WoT. If for every terrorist killed by the U.S., two take his* place, “blow der terrists to kingdom come” is not a viable solution. You’re looking for easy answers where there are none. The only way to even feasable get anything close to a victory is to fight it on both the physical and mental battleground, but it seems that the latter is too nuanced for the wingnut faction to fight effectively.
You can shoot a religious fundamentalist, but you can’t shot religious fundamentalism.
But more seriously Z.
You are correct, you can’t “shot” religious fundamentalism. You can, however, how to put this….MOTIVATE….people against acting on it. And those that refuse to be motivated, you can do everything in your power to turn them into pink clouds of flesh rapidly moving away from each other.
Couple of comments.
Roni, you ignorant twit….the quote is “MAJOR combat operations have ended”And so they have. Small unit actions are not major, but you wouldn’t know that, not having served in the military, or for that matter, not having spoken with a member of the armed forces.
Yea Zython, damn. If we could only get a handle on this WOT stuff, they would stop blowing up stuff in america…!
Oh, wait. NOTHING is has been done in america since 2001!
Sorry the previous “Z” was for zython
As for Z_adura…
Do you think the americans that were beheaded with a knife by zarqawi think he is a made up boogeyman? Does that mean they are really still with head, alive?
Enquiring minds (who’s heads are still attached to their bodies) want to know
Jeez, pedro, three posts in a row? Exclamation points? How’s that blood pressure? Idiot.
hehehehe….Paul, are we getting a little touchy?
He’s dead? Great!
Can we go home now?
Watch for previous post in moderation.
Frame YOU are an idiot.
What? You don’t intend on performing any of the items on my list? OUTRAGEOUS! But… I’ve called you an IDIOT and everything! Oh well, I tried.
Now that I have called you an idiot, I expect you to leave this comment area and never come here again. Furthermore, you are to take out a full page ad in the Guardian proclaiming your impending entry into the 2006 Upper Class Twit of the Year competition (which I expect you will do well at). Upon completing this task, you will book a one hour spot on Dr. Phil and demonstrate your newly patented technique known as “Liberal Self Flaggellation for Dummies”. Now Get Thee Gone!
Frame, YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!
Frame, you are an idiot.
Yea Zython, damn. If we could only get a handle on this WOT stuff, they would stop blowing up stuff in america& !
Oh, wait. NOTHING is has been done in america since 2001!
*sigh* Time for the tiger-rock analogy.
I have a rock that can keep tigers away! How do you know it works? I don’t see any tigers, do you?
Not to mention that you completely ignore terrorist attacks happening around the world. It’s the War on Terror, not the War on Terror against the United States.
And those that refuse to be motivated, you can do everything in your power to turn them into pink clouds of flesh rapidly moving away from each other.
…You need help…preferably NOW.
Zython: Either we have been successful in the war on terror in the United States, or we are in a world wide war on terror with limited success.
Most lefties want to believe neither is true.
But at least one proposition must be.
We can’t fight terrorism in every single country from Greenland to New Zealand.
Moderated again. Now who is it has the deal with Ollie?
Irregardless of what is deemed as success, apparently most republicans are not in any hurry to leave Iraq at all, as they nixed a measure in a funding bill that would have prevented the building of permanent US military bases there. While there is talk about eventually pulling our troops out on one hand, this is apparently not exactly what GWB wants. Could Iraq be the new HQ for the war on terror in the mideast.
Why vote againat an option? That smells like a Democratic move to me. We may want a base, we may want in on the oil, why vote against it in advance? What could we possibly have to gain?
Gee, I thought the idea was to only “liberate” Iraq. If that’s what they want then the Administration ought to be honest with the American people and quit trying to make it “look” otherwise.
ditto the 4:28 PM comment.
Nope, it’s a republican move and the democrats should make an issue of it. Let’s see, republicans want to leave open the option to put a base there, meaning a long term commitment but at the same time telling the folks that things are getting better and the troops will get to start coming home. With the voters mostly fed up with this war, I wouldn’t want to have to explain that one.
Then again, what the heck? Go the gusto and take the oil!
I meant that a vote to guarantee that we would never have a base, or get involved in the oil, was the Democratic move. The Republicans are right to oppose it.
As for a “long term commitment”, we still have troops in Korea and Germany, don’t we?
drpedro Says:
June 8th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
I don t know, I think this current method is pretty effective.
1-F-16 Falcon
2-500 lb General Purpose bombs (GP82)
2-Laser guidance systems
2,480 American soldiers killed in action
XXX,XXX Iraqis killed
No end in sight to the war
=
Combat operations in Iraq have ended George W Bush
drpedro Says:
June 9th, 2006 at 10:53 am
Roni, you ignorant twit& .the quote is MAJOR combat operations have ended And so they have. Small unit actions are not major, but you wouldn t know that, not having served in the military, or for that matter, not having spoken with a member of the armed forces.
LOL … pedro, inserting “Major” is the best and all you can do to respond to this? American troops killed. Iraqis killed. No end in sight to a war that George can barely pronounce without an earpiece. Does your wife know you get off in front of your GWB shrine?