The Vile Right
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Rush Limbaugh, White House guest, interviewer (on multiple occasions) of Vice President Cheney, President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld:
Folks, let me just put it in graphic terms. It is going to be a gang rape. There is going to be a gang rape by the Democratic Party, the American left and the Drive-By Media, to finally take us out in the war against Iraq.
But you know, Michael Moore once sat next to President Carter for five minutes…
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Yeah, I mean it isn’t like he accused the Democrats of “gang rape” or anything…
You have to hand it to the wingnut mouthpieces, OW.
Rush (or whoever is mailing in his talking points) obviously believes that Rethug vote theft might not be enough to avoid putting their minority party back into minority representation in 2006, so he’s warming up the ‘backlash’ rhetoric already. Or maybe he thinks all his victim whining will get more of the Rethug base out to the polls (added to the homo-bashing, of course). But, hey, at least he’s not dialing up the eliminationist rhetoric like these tools.
Anyway, only someone completely blinded by stupidity or spite would fail to see that the ‘gang rape’ of this country has been going on at least since Reagan took the oath of office a quarter century ago.
…..at the Democratic National Convention…
As you leftists should learn someday, it is all about context
Yeah, liberals have never accused Republicans of gang rape.
Let’s take odds on how long before we see the “Yeah, but….” defense.
Yea Nimrod, that is exactly the defense that MM had planned. We just point the finger, drop little innuendo’s about “dealings” with the bin Ladens (and we thought you leftists didn’t LIKE Mcarthy!) and then pretend “Moore never SAID conspiracy…”. Riefenstahl (sp?) coudn’t have done it better.
As far as Ollie is concerned, I would figure that he would be PROUD of the Rush reference. See, your leftist comrades ARE good at dirty tricks, so good that even Rush thinks they are capable of a gang sexual assault….Ollie, you’re making headway!
Yeah, but shut up.
Seriously, though, that was four years ago on a relatively obscure site (more obscure than Rush, certainly) and – here’s the crucial bit – talking in the past tense as an analysis of what the Bush administration had already done, rather than, as in the case of the Rush quote, an attempt to pre-emptively smear them in the event of their doing anything at all, thereby essentially creating a rhetorical no-win situation.
The fact that the same, very general, metaphor was used in both cases is irrelevant. A cursory look at both texts reveals them to have little or nothing in common bar those two words.
Oh, also in the Common Dreams article “gang-rape” is mentioned once as a throwaway and somewhat flippant reference, whereas Rush went into great and serious detail with the metaphor.
Also F9/11 didn’t accuse George of being “in cahoots” with terrorists per se – certainly not in the sense of being in any way in on any kind of 9/11 conspiracy. It did, however, point out the fact that the Bush family have had plently of dealings with the bin Laden family in the past. Which is true.
Or accused a sitting republican president of being in cahoots with terrorists a la F9/11
God, can we avoid using gang rape as a metaphor altogether? Can we institute some sort of Godwin’s Law on it? Isn’t it clear that very little is going to be as bad as an act of gang rape and that all attempts to compare it to political maneuvers are cheap and ugly, much like any attempt to compare anybody to Hitler and the Nazis?
I would have hoped that casual remarks about rape would have jumped the shark after State Sen. Bill Napoli’s disgusting comments about how there were degrees of rape and rape victims and that this was the yardstick by which abortion could be allowed in cases thereof?
But perhaps not.
Seriously, though, that was four years ago on a relatively obscure site (more obscure than Rush, certainly) and – here s the crucial bit – talking in the past tense as an analysis of what the Bush administration had already done, rather than, as in the case of the Rush quote, an attempt to pre-emptively smear them in the event of their doing anything at all, thereby essentially creating a rhetorical no-win situation.
The fact that the same, very general, metaphor was used in both cases is irrelevant. A cursory look at both texts reveals them to have little or nothing in common bar those two words.
Blah blah blah blah. The translation reads: It’s ok when liberals do it, not when conservatives do it.
Frameone pulled the same lame reasoning out of his ass when Oliver had a hissy fit because some guy compared Al Gore to Goebbels and then it was shown that Oliver did the same exact thing to Bush supporters. Frame twisted himself into a human pretzel explaining how it was valid for Oliver to do it.
Oliver always harps on somebody who says something like, “Yeah, Abu Ghraib was bad, but we’re not like Saddam.” Well, it works the same here. People cannot get self righteous about what something Rush says and then when you point out that it’s not unheard of for somebody of their political persuasion to have done the same thing and excuse it with, “Well, they’re not as famous as Rush” or “It was in a different context.”
Either using the phrase “gang rape” is wrong or it isn’t.
No Bill, you jackass, we are speaking out against vile scum like yourself who speak out against US Marines who have not been charged (as far as I know) with any crime.
You may spew whatever filth you like when a US soldier is CONVICTED of war crimes.
Until that time, shut your pie hole
Let’s really put Rush’s words into context. He’s talking about Haditha and the liberal “gang rape” of the issue to drive the U.S. out of Iraq. Wrestle with that concept for a second. Put aside the fact that the “conflict” in Iraq is one ongoing international warcrime, and consider the singularly offensive nature of the Haditha massacre. Children, I repeat CHILDREN, were shot dead at close range, some potentially “execution style” and the pukes continue to reserve their outrage for those who dare speak out against it and the misbegotten enterprise that made it possible.
Look at Pedro’s ridiculous attempts to paint Michael Moore as a McCarthyist for pointing out that Bush’s cozy relationship with the Saudis compromises this country’s security. What a crazy SOB he must be to point out uncomfortable facts like 15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, he must be saying that Bush was “in cahoots” with the terrorists themselves!
It’s the same tired song. Criticize this administration and your a conspiracy nut or rapist. When backed into a corner, inflame the rhetoric to shortcircuit debate. I especially love the new push to co-opt “McCarthyism” as a means to suppress dissent and avoid real discussion. First Frank was all over that bs and now Pedro’s jumping in.
Excuse me if I haven’t been paying close attention, but…
Hey Rush! Aren’t we supposed to be fighting this war FOR Iraq and not AGAINST Iraq?
Speaking of gang rape and the vile Right, Ann Coulter’s new book is out today! Skankerrific!
But on the subject of Haditha, I keep hoping someone will bring up the following question when the right wing f**ktard of the moment insists that everyone keep their mouths shut until there are completely finished and sealed convictions…
Murtha and others brought these incidents to the attention of the general public over SIX MONTHS since they happened. There is, in addition to the investigation of the culpability of the Marines in question, an investigation into attempts to COVER UP these events. Is it not therefore likely that, had the “vile traitor” Murtha not brought these incidents to light that they might well have been swept under the rug, with no pressure on the Adminsistration at all to find out the truth? In that case it’s certain that we, the general public, would have heard nothing about it but you can be sure that the people in Iraq and the rest of the Muslim world would have… and then we’d be sitting around on our hands again continuing to plaintively wonder why they’re pissed off at us…
Remind me again why we are fighting Iraqis in Iraq?
Which idiotic rationale are we using this week?
How about we get out of their country, now.
And let them screw it up by themselves. It would be cheaper, and they would do a better job than US and the Brits have managed so far.
Why is the military covering it up if there’s nothing to hide, Pedro?
“No Bill, you jackass, we are speaking out against vile scum like yourself who speak out against US Marines who have not been charged (as far as I know) with any crime.
You may spew whatever filth you like when a US soldier is CONVICTED of war crimes. ”
Charged or convicted, make up your mind.
“Blah blah blah blah. The translation reads: It s ok when liberals do it, not when conservatives do it.”
YES! Result! I knew you’d ignore my deliberately nuanced and considered response in favour of the classic strawman you were hoping for all along! I’m a fucking prophet! Also you are now not worth paying attention to, you goddamned weasel.
“Yea Nimrod, that is exactly the defense that MM had planned. We just point the finger, drop little innuendo s about dealings with the bin Ladens (and we thought you leftists didn t LIKE Mcarthy!) and then pretend Moore never SAID conspiracy& . Riefenstahl (sp?) coudn t have done it better.”
Not to derail, but those aren’t innuendoes (you want to look intelligent on the Internet, you should probably learn to use apostrophes properly), those are proven facts. Moore never said conspiracy, he never even implied it. What he highlighted was the kind of diplomatic hypocrisy and double-dealing that’s been going on for years. He’s said on more than one occasion that he doesn’t even believe there was a conspiracy.
No, we don’t like McCarthy, but at least we can spell him. Not that it matters because he’s irrelevant.
I’m going to go ahead and assume that your reply’s going to deal more with the length of this post and the propensity of punctuation and spelling corrections than with any of the actual content. Because you’ve often acted like a weasel too.
Random liberal nobody has heard of versus 10 million listener white house guest.
Yeah, same thing.
Bill, it does say something when people like Oliver start saying, “We have blood on our hands” (we don’t) or “We’re better than this” (we know that) and it starts getting peddled in the press along with other dolts that say, “We have to convince the world that this is something out of the ordinary.” Sorry, but we KNOW that already. Running around screaming about it only makes worse. Plus, there are the people who are going to go around saying, “These young men only behaved in the way their cowboy wanna be tough guy President told them to behave.” Mark my words. The “It’s Bush’s fault” meme will invariably make its’ way through the annals of the left.
What’s worse is the SAME PEOPLE shrug and could care less whenever a new mass grave is found in Iraq. That’s telling.
You just used the It s not as bad defense. I ll remember that the next time you re ranting about Haditha or Abu Ghraib and somebody reminds you about Saddam.
Are you still using that? Seriously? Shooting children is not as bad as Saddam?
I think we’ve past that point by now.
Note the usual denial about Haditha at play, yet again, with the kool aid guzzlers. It’s been determined that certain marines participated in a massacre and subsequently tried to cover it up. That’s not in dispute, no matter how much Pedro wants to pretend otherwise. Expressing outrage at this event and expressing concern that the guilty be punished doesn’t require charges or convictions. No one is calling for any specific marine to be strung up, just those marines that are found to be responsible. That’s simple human decency at play, which explains why Pedro and company can’t comprehend it, having long ago surrendered their souls for the comforts of mindless rightwing group think.
“What s worse is the SAME PEOPLE shrug and could care less whenever a new mass grave is found in Iraq. That s telling.”
Oh this is just pathetic. Hey Jay, are talking about the old Hussein-era mass graves or the fresh, post-invasion mass graves? Because everytime there’s a fresh mass grave found in Iraq, or simply a pile of executed corpses out in the street, we’re met with a flood of right wing bullshit that it’s only the media focussing on the negative, that everything is going swimmingly in Iraq. The people we went to supposedly free from tyranny are now themselves digging mass graves for their own purposes.
Would anyone on the right like to applaud the reporting of Time magazine that lead directly to the military investigation of Haditha?
Thanks Oliver. You just used the “It’s not as bad defense.” I’ll remember that the next time you’re ranting about Haditha or Abu Ghraib and somebody reminds you about Saddam.
As I read the above posts I can’t help but think that it’s possible that something profoundly disturbing is happening to once ordinary Republican citizens? In their unending quest to justify anything and everything Bush and the rest of his band of hellraisers do, they see no horror in the horrific acts being executed. In fact, so long as their cherished party has done the deed, the deed must be good. For them to admit otherwise would mean admitting that the opposition was right all along, thus forcing self examination of kept morals. Whatever it is that keeps them in the Bush/Republican endorsement camp may possibly translate into an unknowing soul sale to the devil.
How anyone in his right mind cannot see how horrific this Iraq debacle has been since lie #1 is beyond so, so many of us. But, hey, a new school opened in Baghdad this year, so woo hoo!!
Rounds 77 correctly notes the very point so adroitly missed by “Dr”P and JayCaruso.
There apparently is no atrocity Repugs are not willing to excuse in service to their political master, AWOL George.
>>Mark my words. The It s Bush s fault meme will invariably make its way through the annals of the left.
Who started this fucking war, you dope? Who’s the guy who said “dead or alive?”
You people aren’t worth my time.
JK
Oh..I forgot “Axis of Evil.”
I’m out of names to call you people.
You’re just not that smart. Names don’t do you justice.
JK
I’ll say it one more time, cause you guys are pretty dumb
No one is going to excuse war crimes, no one. We are also not going to let you dumbass leftists try our Marines without a proper investigation.
Show me a conservative here who has excused the execution of children. In fact, I have always counted Saddams “childrens prison” as one of the great reasons for going into Iraq.
JK, you should be aware that any error attributed to George W. Bush will inevitably lead you back to the origin of all sin, William Jefferson Clinton. Who will be the first winger to come to the plate?
drpedro Says:
June 6th, 2006 at 10:10 pm
I ll say it one more time, cause you guys are pretty dumb
And you demonstrate intellectual superiority hanging around a blog telling people how stupid they are? Do you get off kicking sand in baby’s faces when you’re at the beach?
And there you have it, the “with us or against us,” “Semper FI to the end” group think that is the Right’s stock in trade. Pausing only barely to indirectly acknowledge this whole travesty by asserting your moral authority as someone who doesn’t excuse war crimes…when their commited by Saddam Hussein, anyway. Show me a conservative here who has spontaneously expressed any outrage about Haditha without first being driven to address it by one of us first. Who among you have called for the guilty to be punished, regardless of the uniform they wear?
Let me help you.
None.
According to international law, the whole Iraq invasion is a war crime, and that’s just glossing over issues like Abu Ghraib, levelling of Fallujah, and the use of phosphorus bombs.
Every conservative rant on this subject has been a ridiculous attempt to pretend that the circumstances of Haditha are still in doubt.
They are not.
Got that? Certain marines are GUILTY of MURDER. The details might be fuzzy, but the big picture is pretty clear.
After the whitewash that was the Abu Ghraib “investigation” I don’t think there needs to be an explanation for the Left’s concern that this will all be swept under the rug.
I mean, it’s not like the whole thing happened seven months ago and it only got any attention thanks to a TIME investigation that turned up suppressed photos, a video, and evidence of a falsified report exhonerating the marines of any wrong doing.
Dumbass indeed.
yea dumbass is about right.
How many people are in prison because of abu ghraib? How many officers have had their careers (rightly) destroyed.
I and every other conservative here have been calling for investigations and prosecution of each and every war crime committed. And when perpetrators are found guilty, you’ll see no failing from me to heap condemnation upon the guilty.
“Certain marines (sic) are gulty of murder. The details might be fuzzy…”
Yea, leftist judgement. “Round up the usual suspects…”
Dumbass, George Orwell would have loved you.
What I find more insidious is that the “gang rape” comment is part of the old “stabbed in the back narrative” that the Right is trying to use to explain why Bush lost in Iraq. It’s a right-wing canard going back at the very least to the early Nazis in the 1920s, who blamed Germany’s loss in WWI on Jewish backstabbers who destroyed German morale. (No, I’m not saying everybody on the Right is a Nazi. I’m saying that the Nazis perfected this perennial right-wing strategy, employed by right-wing regimes around the globe). It’s the same thing with Vietnam. Those who argue “We would have won Vietnam if not for all those hippies and Walter Cronkite.” Never do the war planners and supporters take responibility for their own failures in actually running the war. Here’s the problem, folks: Americans will support wars they a) think are truly necessary, and b) think they can win.
Here is where I disagree with both the Left and Right. I think the war IS necessary at this point. The stakes are too high to pull out and let it fall to shit. Of course, it’s already fallen to shit, and the question is how much further will it fall. Which leads to the second problem. Rumsfeld doesn’t want to do full-on counterinsurgency. He wants a few high-tech, high-profile raids that net 50 insurgents and then return to base. That won’t win in Iraq. Nobody who pays attention thinks current US strategy is winning. The serious neo-cons sure don’t think it’s working. And that’s why the American people are giving up on this war. The Bush Administration has botched the Iraq war. It never really asked the American people for the sort of sacrifice necessary to sustain a long-term war either. That’s why Americans aren’t sticking it out like they did in the dark days of the Civil War or World War II (of course those involved more obvious existential threats. Another 9/11 would be awful, but all the Al Qaeda militants and wannabes in the world can’t muster 1% the threat that the combined Japanese and German military did in 1941). You can’t blame that on Haditha histrionics or left wing pants pissing, or traitorous media. Blame the poor leadership of this war, which went to war on the cheap, with too few troops, and no real plan for the aftermath of Saddam’s ouster. When Rumsfeld laughed off the looting of Baghdad we should all have known that this would end up badly. Almost cartoonishly unrealistic expecatations on the part of the Bush Administration allowed the insurgency to fester in the early months post-April 2003, and now it’s mushroomed into a full-on, sectarian civil war. Don’t blame the American people, or anti-war activisits, or the media for screwing up Iraq. Blame the people who screwed it up.
“I and every other conservative here have been calling for investigations and prosecution of each and every war crime committed.”
What a joke. Out of the gate you and dugger and others were attacking the New York Times for simply reporting on what a military investigation was expected to find. Not one of you has been willing to face directly what that investigation is expected to conclude. You have repeatedly brought up potential scenarios that might lessen the horror of what happened (“maybe these were terrorists using children as shields”) in the face of official reports that the shootings were unprovoked. You champions of the truth have yet to confront the fact that the military wanted nothing to do with investigating reports from Haditha until Time magazine reported on the incident. Not one of you has been willing to accept or praise the media’s role in bringing the truth to light in this incident through good reporting.
On down the line from Abu Graib to Haditha you idiots have been attacking the media as traitors for simply reporting the truth about what’s going on in Iraq. Just tell me this pedro, since you support investigations do you support Time magazine’s initial reporting into the incident?
Jesus you are stupid. The highest ranking soldier to be convicted of anything for Abu Ghraib was a dog handler with the rank of seargent. Key-Rice-Tah, could you be any thicker?
Riiiight. As far as I can tell you clowns have only taken time to a.)slam Murtha or b.)slam “lefties.” I have not seen one “call” from any of you for any investigation. At best you have defended the current investigations and railed against anyone brazen enough to simply state already known facts. I haven’t even seen any posts where you acknowledge the fact that no investigations were going on until reporters got a hold of the story (ditto Abu Ghraib). And again you fail to make even the slightest coherent argument or support for your assertions in any meaningful way. The idea that some of the marines of Kilo company commited murder isn’t my conclusion, it’s the military’s.
So now criticisng the government and the Iraq war is McCarthist AND Orwellian? What’s in that kool-aid, mercury?
Pedro, you may very well be the single dumbest troll on this site, and that’s quite a feat.
I never read the time article.
If the article truly REPORTED incident, then I applaud it. If it spent time talking about Marines killing “in cold blood”, well, that is an editorial comment I don’t support.
Report the allegation, then let the investigation take its course. Or don’t you actually support our military? Don’t trust them to perform a thorough investigation?
You lefties have been ruining military lives for years. As far back as Tailhook. Refusing to let qualified people investigate, and prosecute if necessary, miscreants. You try hard working military men and women in the court of public opinion because it fits your world-view of our troops as “baby killers”.
Traitorous scum.
“I never read the time article.”
Classic. Have you read any of the article that have been published about this incident?
You all should know that Pedro is an unrepentant liar. Best to ignore him.
Frame, pedro doesn’t even read the links he posts as support for his arguments. But even this admission is a bizarre improvement, so don’t knock it.
It’s nice to know what he thinks of hypotheticals. “If aliens took over Colorado, I’d be against it!”
What hypotheticals? My argument has always been that our Marines deserve better than to be pilloried by public figures before an investigation/trial is complete.
I stopped giving Time any of my hard earned cash after they wrote an editorial referring to Condi Rice as an “Aunt Jemima”, and Colin Powell as an “uncle tom”
“My argument has always been that our Marines deserve better than to be pilloried by public figures before an investigation/trial is complete.”
And you believe that they have been “pilloried” without having read any of the actual reporting on the matter? Hilarious. Everything is possible without the facts, pedro. What. An. Idiot.
If the article truly REPORTED incident, then I applaud it. If it spent time talking about Marines killing in cold blood , well, that is an editorial comment I don t support.
That hypothetical. You very loudly protest something that you can’t even verify occurred, because you were either too lazy or too scared to look into what the article actually said.
Pedro: I never referred to the article…
Earlier Pedro: If the article truly REPORTED incident, then I applaud it.
Wow. Now you fail to read even what you yourself have written.
It’s not a question of gospel. The investigation you claim to have been fully behind from the start wouldn’t even be known to you if Time hadn’t broken the story. But you don’t care about the article. So how can you know anything about the investigation?
And again, boo hoo. You called me dumbass. Let me cry about it. Boo hoo.
BD you dumbass, I never referred to the article, and couldn’t care less about it. It is your gospel, not mine.
Reporting is not investigation, paul. You are confusing movies with real life again. All I know if that a sitting congressman and leftist “We support the troops” chuckleheads such as yourself said they “murdered in cold blood” and that is really all I care about.
BD you have designed a beautifully circular argument. You refer to an article, I respond, then you question my reference to the article.
Dumb
Ass
At some point, I suppose I have to wonder why my hand hurts, when I keep smacking it into this brick wall.
Carry on, Pedro. And good luck in your elusive quest for maturity.
“Reporting is not investigation, paul. You are confusing movies with real life again.”
The classics just keep on coming.
First, you have no idea what was in the original Time magazine article because you never read it. The Time article is what people sometime refer to as “investigative reporting” perhaps you’ve heard of the term. The Time article lead directly to the opening of the military investigation. In other words, if not for the work of the media you so disparage there would never have been an official investigation.
Second, since you’re clearly running entirely on blowhard talking points instead of the facts you have no way of understanding that Murtha was reacting to what the military itself told him they had found. Murtha did not decide for himself that Haditha was unprovoked. Military sources told him that this is what the military investigation had found and would subsequently report. You idiots keep coming back suggesting that Murtha is smearing the marines when it is the military itself that told Murtha there were grounds for murder charges. But again, you don’t know shit about anything because you haven’t actually read any of the relevant reporting. Why? Because you’re a complete idiot.
That brick wall is called “Reason”…..don’t hurt yourself
I wonder how calm Pedro was waiting for the facts to come to light under a fair investigation when Clinton was president, who I’m sure deserves just as much respect as the marines. I wonder if he would be so patient waiting for the results of a fair trial had the tables been turned had it been a group of Iraqis who murdered our soldiers in cold blood. He’s so full of you-know-what, I’m surprised he doesn’t regurgitate his own crap every time he exhales.
And while it definitely goes without saying:
“… you haven t actually read any of the relevant reporting. Why? Because you re a complete idiot” and you choose to stay that way.
Paul, I will repeat. I. Don’t. Care. What . Time. Said.
I never referred to it, (until you morons brought it out as the Holy Writ on the subject), I am not interested in their “investigation”.
No one in the military told Murtha the Marines “murdered children in cold blood”, ok Paul? No one. Yet that is what he tells the american people and the world.
Unlike movie critics, congress critters need to behave like adults and think about the results of their words.
I DID wait for the facts to come to light unders clinton. The facts “came” to light with a DNA test on a blue dress because the CIC couldn’t bring himself to tell the truth to a sitting judge.
At least give our Marines the same courtesy, let their case come before a judge before setting them up for their firing squad
“No one in the military told Murtha the Marines murdered children in cold blood , ok Paul?”
You have no idea what the military told Murtha because you haven’t read any of the coverage have you? Idiot.
No Paul, because no one has published what the miltary told him. However, as a former field grade officer in our military, I can say with almost absolute certainty, that he was not told that.
And you base you assumptions on what? Something you learned getting your PhD in film studies perhaps?
“However, as a former field grade officer in our military, I can say with almost absolute certainty …”
You couldn’t be more obvious, pedro. It’s fascinating to see just how long someone can go without a single fact on their side:
Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said last week that he was told by Marine Corps officials that the civilians were killed in cold blood.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12990567/
Idiot.
“I stopped giving Time any of my hard earned cash after they wrote an editorial referring to Condi Rice as an Aunt Jemima , and Colin Powell as an uncle tom ”
Please provide a link, I can’t find this anywhere. But it wouldn’t surprise me if this is just another distortion fet to pedro by rush or the blogs which he repeated without being even a little skeptical.
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