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	<title>Comments on: Cons In Pursuit Of Stupidity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/06/01/cons-in-pursuit-of-stupidity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/06/01/cons-in-pursuit-of-stupidity/</link>
	<description>Like Kryptonite To Stupid</description>
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		<title>By: frameone</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/06/01/cons-in-pursuit-of-stupidity/#comment-35436</link>
		<dc:creator>frameone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2006 17:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2105#comment-35436</guid>
		<description>&quot;Yea, as long as there are republicans in office, the  bar  is officially set for  Perfection &amp; &amp; &quot;

When US marines kill a pregnant woman at a check point that is a regrettable accident. When we learn that US marines may have killed 24 innocent civilians as retribution, is it too much to ask that we accept a zero tolerance level for murder? Apparently it is for idiots like pedro.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Yea, as long as there are republicans in office, the  bar  is officially set for  Perfection &#038; &#038; &#8221;</p>
<p>When US marines kill a pregnant woman at a check point that is a regrettable accident. When we learn that US marines may have killed 24 innocent civilians as retribution, is it too much to ask that we accept a zero tolerance level for murder? Apparently it is for idiots like pedro.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/06/01/cons-in-pursuit-of-stupidity/#comment-35435</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2105#comment-35435</guid>
		<description>SaveFarris-

You&#039;re right.  I&#039;ll bet anyone right now that during the sensationalizing of these trials (during election season no less!) we will see next to nothing about the dozens (or perhaps hundreds) of Marines and soldiers who have been wounded in Iraq because they were left vulnerable to terrorists after being ordered to hold their fire because civilians were present.

Sundown-

Unfortunately Marines are human beings, not ideals.  And human beings snap under stress and do otherwise unthinkable things.

Terrorists like Al Qaeda prey on civilians and use them for cover &lt;i&gt;specifically&lt;/i&gt; to entice our troops to fire on civilians.  They know that if we kill civilians (even accidentally), every good thing accomplished by our military will be forgotten.  And they know that &lt;i&gt;we&lt;/i&gt; are the only party that the media will hold accountable to the standards of the Geneva Conventions.  The Viet Cong parlayed this into a winning strategy thirty-odd years ago, and Al Qaeda have been good students.

Until we find a way to make ourselves superhuman, there will always be someone who fails under pressure.  Google &quot;un peacekeeper child prostitution&quot; for a prime example.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SaveFarris-</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right.  I&#8217;ll bet anyone right now that during the sensationalizing of these trials (during election season no less!) we will see next to nothing about the dozens (or perhaps hundreds) of Marines and soldiers who have been wounded in Iraq because they were left vulnerable to terrorists after being ordered to hold their fire because civilians were present.</p>
<p>Sundown-</p>
<p>Unfortunately Marines are human beings, not ideals.  And human beings snap under stress and do otherwise unthinkable things.</p>
<p>Terrorists like Al Qaeda prey on civilians and use them for cover <i>specifically</i> to entice our troops to fire on civilians.  They know that if we kill civilians (even accidentally), every good thing accomplished by our military will be forgotten.  And they know that <i>we</i> are the only party that the media will hold accountable to the standards of the Geneva Conventions.  The Viet Cong parlayed this into a winning strategy thirty-odd years ago, and Al Qaeda have been good students.</p>
<p>Until we find a way to make ourselves superhuman, there will always be someone who fails under pressure.  Google &#8220;un peacekeeper child prostitution&#8221; for a prime example.</p>
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		<title>By: drpedro</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/06/01/cons-in-pursuit-of-stupidity/#comment-35434</link>
		<dc:creator>drpedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2105#comment-35434</guid>
		<description>ideally children shouldn&#039;t die of starvation, puppies should never get run over, and there should be tree that just grows money....

Yea, as long as there are republicans in office, the &quot;bar&quot; is officially set for &quot;Perfection&quot;......

This is why no one serious listens to leftists...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ideally children shouldn&#8217;t die of starvation, puppies should never get run over, and there should be tree that just grows money&#8230;.</p>
<p>Yea, as long as there are republicans in office, the &#8220;bar&#8221; is officially set for &#8220;Perfection&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>This is why no one serious listens to leftists&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/06/01/cons-in-pursuit-of-stupidity/#comment-35433</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2105#comment-35433</guid>
		<description>We lost Vietnam because the Viet Cong were clever enough to do their dirty work away from American TV cameras.  The VC committed Mai Lai-scale atrocities weekly, but they did it under cover of darkness and used random murders to scare civilians into cooperating with them.

On the other hand, whenever the South Vietnamese and Americans went looking for Viet Cong and clumsily raided a village or mistakenly attacked civilians, American TV cameras were there to record it all.

And when the networks in New York got the footage, it was given its own sensationalized context: &quot;My God!  All we&#039;re doing over there is burning homes and attacking civilians!!&quot;

We completely failed to effectively communicate the savagery of the VC.  Even visual imagery didn&#039;t help, because film of American troops mowing down the jungle with machine gun fire made much better television than pictures of the dead bodies that the VC left behind.

I believe that this sort of journalism is still alive today.  Compare the reluctance of the mainstream networks to show video from 9/11 or to air videos of terrorists sawing people&#039;s heads off, with the eagerness of those same networks to show the Abu Graib photos or air allegations of abuse at Gitmo.

It&#039;s not about propaganda or &quot;cover-ups.&quot;  It&#039;s about telling both sides of the story fairly.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We lost Vietnam because the Viet Cong were clever enough to do their dirty work away from American TV cameras.  The VC committed Mai Lai-scale atrocities weekly, but they did it under cover of darkness and used random murders to scare civilians into cooperating with them.</p>
<p>On the other hand, whenever the South Vietnamese and Americans went looking for Viet Cong and clumsily raided a village or mistakenly attacked civilians, American TV cameras were there to record it all.</p>
<p>And when the networks in New York got the footage, it was given its own sensationalized context: &#8220;My God!  All we&#8217;re doing over there is burning homes and attacking civilians!!&#8221;</p>
<p>We completely failed to effectively communicate the savagery of the VC.  Even visual imagery didn&#8217;t help, because film of American troops mowing down the jungle with machine gun fire made much better television than pictures of the dead bodies that the VC left behind.</p>
<p>I believe that this sort of journalism is still alive today.  Compare the reluctance of the mainstream networks to show video from 9/11 or to air videos of terrorists sawing people&#8217;s heads off, with the eagerness of those same networks to show the Abu Graib photos or air allegations of abuse at Gitmo.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not about propaganda or &#8220;cover-ups.&#8221;  It&#8217;s about telling both sides of the story fairly.</p>
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		<title>By: elrod</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/06/01/cons-in-pursuit-of-stupidity/#comment-35432</link>
		<dc:creator>elrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2105#comment-35432</guid>
		<description>Find me a counterinsurgency campaign, anywhere, that doesn&#039;t end up committing atrocities. It&#039;s the nature of the beast. We can try to follow the rules, and we almost always do, but the amorality of guerrilla warfare can suck in even the most disciplined soldier. Spend some time in the villages of Anbar and it&#039;s likely you would see the entire civilian population as the enemy. Only massive clearances and deportations will clean up Anbar. I&#039;m thinking of Order Number 11 in the US Civil War, or the concentration camps in Cuba during the 1895-98 war.  Counterinsurgency is brutal. I&#039;m not advocating these solutions because I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s morally worthwhile to &quot;win&quot; Anbar, considering the costs.  But if we are &quot;serious&quot; about &quot;winning in Iraq,&quot; then we need much more drastic solutions. And those will involve wholesale displacement of the civilian population.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Find me a counterinsurgency campaign, anywhere, that doesn&#8217;t end up committing atrocities. It&#8217;s the nature of the beast. We can try to follow the rules, and we almost always do, but the amorality of guerrilla warfare can suck in even the most disciplined soldier. Spend some time in the villages of Anbar and it&#8217;s likely you would see the entire civilian population as the enemy. Only massive clearances and deportations will clean up Anbar. I&#8217;m thinking of Order Number 11 in the US Civil War, or the concentration camps in Cuba during the 1895-98 war.  Counterinsurgency is brutal. I&#8217;m not advocating these solutions because I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s morally worthwhile to &#8220;win&#8221; Anbar, considering the costs.  But if we are &#8220;serious&#8221; about &#8220;winning in Iraq,&#8221; then we need much more drastic solutions. And those will involve wholesale displacement of the civilian population.</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver Willis</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/06/01/cons-in-pursuit-of-stupidity/#comment-35431</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver Willis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 04:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2105#comment-35431</guid>
		<description>America: Not As Bad As Terrorists just doesn&#039;t have the right ring to it.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>America: Not As Bad As Terrorists just doesn&#8217;t have the right ring to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sundown</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/06/01/cons-in-pursuit-of-stupidity/#comment-35430</link>
		<dc:creator>Sundown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 01:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2105#comment-35430</guid>
		<description>That is true on a technical level.

But SaveFarris, why do you set the bar so low?
This is America. Ideally there should be NO instances like Haditha.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is true on a technical level.</p>
<p>But SaveFarris, why do you set the bar so low?<br />
This is America. Ideally there should be NO instances like Haditha.</p>
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		<title>By: SaveFarris</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/06/01/cons-in-pursuit-of-stupidity/#comment-35429</link>
		<dc:creator>SaveFarris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 01:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2105#comment-35429</guid>
		<description>Maybe, just maybe, Mai Lai (and Haditha) should be reported on in context, that the US has 2 significant instances of military misconduct (w/ Abu Gharib) in 3 years while our opponents can&#039;t go 3 hours without committing a Geneva Convention violation.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe, just maybe, Mai Lai (and Haditha) should be reported on in context, that the US has 2 significant instances of military misconduct (w/ Abu Gharib) in 3 years while our opponents can&#8217;t go 3 hours without committing a Geneva Convention violation.</p>
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