This particular Bastard thinks we,as a nation, comitted a war crime…..

’nuff said…..

Here’s the thing, we can’t save face as a nation among the world or the people of Iraq if we at home don’t have an outcry when the atrocities happen. People like DrDoper just tell the Iraqis and the world, hey, we got the guns, we can do what we want. That is why they support torture, killing civilians, security contractors running amok, etc etc etc. After all, how dare these ignorant bastards live on top of our oil? We’ll show them.

What kills me is that this was almost… inevitable. No clear mission; no end (never mind whether it’s in sight) never ever knowing just who is the enemy and who is some poor schmuck in the wrong place at the wrong time…

Hell, it’s endemic in our popular culture– the cop that knows just who the bad guy is, but can’t prove it… Dirty Harry, anyone?

Some kid with a rifle just had enough. “I know these fuckers are dirty, and I’m gonna teach ‘em to fuck with us!”

Tell me you can’t just see it.

Sigh. It pisses me off and breaks my heart.

As a nation we’ve already commited a war crime, thanks to that lying son-of-a-bitch in the Oval Office. Atrocities like these just reinforce our criminality.

That, and generate new jihadis.

FB

You’re the only one suggesting that I accept everything they do. I want these allegations investigated and tried.

What I don’t want is leftists who want to get on the current bandwagon of “supporting our troops” for political advantage to try and convict our Marines.

I grow tired of people like you, who never served a day in their lives, suggesting that my support consists of a bumper sticker. I spent ten years supporting our fighting forces and their families, literally all over the world. My understanding of this situation runs deeper than you will ever know. And that is just fine with me.

Are there wide-spread discipline problems in Iraq, or, more importantly is there a widespread belief among Iraqis that there are commonly abuses inflicted upon the Iraqi population by the US military (Abu Ghraib for one)? This ain’t the first one.

As a side note, there is an entire force of American security contractors not subject to military justice or any form of civilian justice, Iraqi or American. Nothing to see there either.

God, this is fucking scary. You’d actually wait until there were a hundred Hadithas before you’d start to think “Hmm. Maybe there’s a problem here.”

So should I presume that you didn’t think there was an actual Iraqi insurgency until after the 100th IED went off?

Abject lesson in the Queen’s English: One Marine may endure a court martial; many Marines will endure many courts-martial. Got it?

And, in the spirit of returning the favor, villainous keyboard kommandos like YOU insist on conflating “support of the troops” with ignoring or accepting any and everything that individual “troops” do.

You “Support the Troops,” with a damned magnetic sticker on the back of your truck, and you don’t give ONE STINKING SHIT that the poor brave bastards of the Infantry are left hanging out there tour after deployment after tour, with no endgame defined and no end in sight. (and make no mistake, every swingin’ dick and every swingin’ tit in the ‘Raq is an infantryman now, regardless of his or her MOS)

Villains like YOU refuse to hold the command structure accountable, because it would mean holding National Command Authority accountable.

And villains like YOU will never let the buck stop on ANY desk in this despicable misAdministration.

FB

Unit leadership may well be bad, but until I see a hundred incidents like this, there is no evidence of discipline problems across the whole armed forces.

everyone here agrees there should be a courts martial, right and left wingers. I don’t know why you try to paint this as some sort of partisan issue. The partisan issue is that the leftists want to roll over on a bunch of marines who have not had their day in court

I didn’t say a breakdown in mission, because, you mindless elephellator, there is no clear mission.

It’s a breakdown in discipline at the squad/platoon level alright, but that’s evidence of a breakdown of discipline all the way to the top. That is, so long as the top doesn’t work ruthlessly to eliminate that breakdown.

Which brings us to the point of the discussion– the courts-martial that MUST follow this, as opposed to the bland “we support the troops” coverup that dung-eating warmongers like you call for.

FB

Battlefield atrocities occurr in every single war. One episode, (or two or even perhaps a dozen) does not demonstrate a breakdown in mission, except at the squad level perhaps.

This is the real problem with letting the leftists get involved with these things, they really WANT them to demostrate how “right” they are about things war-like, when in fact it demonstrates nothing more than a few bad apples who are likely to spend a lot of time at Ft Leavenworth.

The problem is that they did. And they lied. And it took six months for the truth to become unavoidable.

Why do you have faith in something that has already failed you? Why would you trust people whom you have already caught lying?

Again.

The one the only, the objecively pro-child-murder Dugger.

Here’s your sign.

FB

Who the hell is speculating Dugger? Murtha and Kline were briefed by the military on the current state of the investigation and what it was expected to conclude.

What happened to all of that BS during the elction about how prohgressives support the troops. Why not support their right ot fair hearing now?

Dugger, Murtha is a leftist publicity hungry jerk

You are a true Republican.

You miss the single most important point in this entire debacle– the breakdown in discipline. Having no knowledge of military history, especially that of the immediate post Vietnam period, you just don’t get it.

This is symptomatic of a breakdown in discipline. This is symptomatic of an army (and Corps) that no longer has a clear mission to accomplish. Soldiers are trained and led to spend their lives for the accomplishment of the mission. That’s what they do. Sure, they do their damndest to follow Patton’s dictum to make the other poor bastard die for his country, but each of them will give his life to accomplish the mission.

When there’s no clear mission, no clear endpoint, never any way off the mad, blood spattered carousel that is warfare- when their friends, their comrades, their brothers-in-arms are killed, one at a time, day after day after day after day…

That’s plenty to drive a man mad.

And every– EVERY– goddamned drop of blood spilled in this godsforsaken misadventure is on the hands of George W. Bush and the fools (listen closely, now, Dugger, Pedro– I’m talking about you) — who persist in this folly.

“The moral is to the material as three is to one.” With every step in this lunacy, YOU have undermined the morality of American arms. YOU have called for and supported the invasion of a nation with whom we had no casus belli.

YOU, Pedro. YOU, Dugger. There’s a stain on your hands that no amount of Oxy-Clean will ever remove.

Pretty strong words from Murtha. Oh yea, that’s actually Republican Congressman Kline. Where’s the outrage from the cons? They wouldn’t be hypocrites, would they?

Ask them how they feel about a politician pre-judging what Marines did under fire before any evidence was let out, and before any courts martial.

If those Marines did what is alleged, you are correct, there will be a line of Marines waiting to help string them up.

Murtha: An Ex Marine

Shooting innocents in the confusion of a firefight? A tragedy, but endemic to hot war.

Shooting children in the arms of their mothers in their own homes? Murder.

So, how’s it feel to be objectively pro-child murder?