“A delegation of angry village elders complained to senior Marines in Haditha about the killings but were rebuffed with the excuse that the raid had been a mistake. TIME learned about the Haditha action in January, when it obtained a copy of Thabet’s videotape from an Iraqi human-rights group. But a Marine spokesman brushed off any inquiries. “To be honest,” Marine Captain Jeff Pool e-mailed McGirk, “I cannot believe you’re buying any of this. This falls into the same category of AQI (al-Qaeda in Iraq) propaganda.” In late January, TIME gave a copy of the videotape to Colonel Barry Johnson, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad. After reviewing it, he recommended a formal investigation. The ensuing probe, conducted by a colonel, concluded that Marines, not a bomb, killed the civilians but that the deaths were the result of “collateral damage,” not deliberate homicide. Nevertheless, after reviewing the initial probe, senior military officials launched a criminal investigation.”

The very media you deride as ideologically biased was instrumental in getting the investigation going and in bringing the truth to light. Do you think that Time magazine should have questioned the marines first official recounting of the incident? Should Time have simply ignored the stories of Iraqi citizens as so much al-Qeada backed propaganda?

Idiot.

Dugger

While on the one hand I can accept the argument that these marines were overly stressed and primed to go off, with the IED simply providing the trigger, I cannot excuse the act. That those involved knew they had done something wrong is only re-inforced by the fact that the initial reports were crafted to paint the civilian deaths as “collateral” damage and therefore acceptable. I can even accept the idea that the military wanted to keep this quiet and to handle it internally without public scrutiny to avoid the negative repurcussions both at home and in Iraq. I don’t agree with that position as I think it fosters mistrust and anger (particularly after Abu Ghraib), but I can accept that people might be inclined to see events from that perspective. What I cannot accept is the apparent belief by some that it is the marines involved are blameless victims, and the Iraqi civilians killed are really to blame (the “bad guys” argument put forth in another thread). Was a marine killed by an IED? Yes. Do his buddies have a right to be furious over his death? Yes. Do they have the right to seek vengeance on Iraqi civilians? Hell no. The pretense that Murtha’s public regurgitation of conclusions from the military investigation constitute “pre-judging” and have put pressure on the military to offer up a sacrifice to appease the public goes hand in hand with this “blame the victim” mentality. Had this event been dealt with openly and without the need for pressure from yet another round of photos and video tapes that were previously suppressed or ignored, there would be no ongoing outcry from Rep. Murtha. How could there be? What would he say? The system works and the guilty have been punished, aren’t you all furious? Don’t we need another pointless investigation into a fully disclosed matter? If the debate is over what long term damge this does to the military’s public image, then the old axiom still holds true, it’s not the crime, it’s the cover up.

Dugger

Democrat bad. Republican good.

This, from the same clown who likes to repeat the claim that “John Kerry killed an unarmed teenager in a loincloth.”

Somehow you managed to know the details on that one, peed’. Are your powers of divination declining as you grow old?

Kline stated the facts, as currently KNOWN. “It has been established that the Marines fired on civilians and killed them.”

Not “murdered”. Not slaughtered. Not “in cold blood”. Not “innocent”civilians.

We do NOT know the details. We do not know if the marines were taking fire from that room. We just don’t know.

I give the Marines the benefit of innocent until proven guilty that my Bolshie collegues here don’t. We have an active investigation. There is NO evidence of a government coverup.

Let justice take its course

Dugger

What seemed to enrage you the most about Murtha’s comments was that he had made them before it has been established by the Marine Corps that a crime had been committed. I couldn’t agree more. I mean we aren’t talking about a goatherd at Gitmo here, we can’t jump to any conclusions until Our Leader and Sean Hannity tell us it’s acceptable to do so.

Maybe it wasn’t a war crime at all. The final report might show that the victims were all terrorists. Who knows? Perhaps the 6 year old was shouldering an RPG and the 3 and 4 year olds were manning a .50 cal machine gun. We won’t know until the final report is issued.

“This was a small number of Marines who fired directly on civilians and killed them,” said Representative John Kline, a Minnesota Republican and former Marine who was briefed two weeks ago by Marine Corps officials. “This is going to be an ugly story.”
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1198892,00.html

And let’s not forget, Dugs, that you began this thread attacking “third-hand anti-military newspaper accounts.” Let me ask you something. Do you think Time magazine should have investigated this incident and reported what it found? Second, is the Washington Times part of the anti-military media:

“Defense attorneys expect the Marine Corps to file murder charges against one or more Marines who conducted raids in Haditha in November that resulted in the deaths of more than 20 Iraqi civilians, according to sources close to the investigation.”
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060525-122158-2945r.htm

Or is your ire reserved only for those with a (D) following their names?

I know the lumps are flailing on this one, but holy crap Pedro is really workin’ it. At least Dugger is smart enough to stick to the tired “Murtha is a hack” line and doesn’t try to pretend that the notion there was a deliberate massacre in Haditha is somehow still in doubt. Pedro, on the other hand, is hammering down the kool-aid two fisted.

Pedro, real doctor or bedpan technician?

The romans said it best

Res ipso loquitur

You’re a moron bill, no question about it. Thanks for the confirmation…

Most people have common sense and this slaughter can not be “spun”.

It is wrong any which way you decide to slice it. Quote this, quote that, bullshit. It is wrong.

War is one thing, killing innocent civilians is another.

SEMPER FI LUMPS!!!

In doing so he broke the faith with his fellow Marines, and has heaped even more ignominy on his own bloated pinhead

Another reason why war sucks. We have to listen this garbage.

“Forward this to Mr. Rumseld immediately.”

Why not forward it to every politician who made the war possible, including the Democrats?

Why not forward it toa ll of the Clinton Admin who went into the Balkans and before that Mogadishu etc. And before Lebanon and before that Desert One.

Idiots like Murtha and other partisan pre-judgers are hurting ther troops, not particularly Rummy.

Dugger

Coming from a hater of America such as yourself, I’ll take your words as a complement.

SUX0R!