And where did ANYONE ever denigrate Bob Dole’s service to this country? Did someone sell purple-heart bandaids at a Democratic convention?

Bill Clinton is a liar with a wet dick and a pissed-off wife. George W. Bush is a liar with the blood of thousands on his hands.

FB

You guys are just being thick. According to Time magazine both Murtha and Kline were briefed on the expected conclusions of the military’s own investigation:

“The darkest suspicions about the killings were confirmed last week, when members of Congress who were briefed on the two ongoing military investigations disclosed that at least some members of a Marine unit may soon be charged in connection with the deaths of the Iraqis–and that the charges may include murder, which carries the death penalty. “This was a small number of Marines who fired directly on civilians and killed them,” said Representative John Kline, a Minnesota Republican and former Marine who was briefed two weeks ago by Marine Corps officials. “This is going to be an ugly story.”
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1198892,00.html

In other words, anything Murtha and Kline have said about the incident thay are basing on what the MILITARY TOLD THEM. They are not speculating, they are not making shit up, they are not repeating what the NY Times or CNN reported. What Murtha and Kline were both told BY THE MILITARY was that some of the marines might be charged with murder.
That’s what ’s been established,Dugger. IN addition to the fact that the marines tried to cover up what happened. As Kine noted:

“There’s no doubt that the Marines allegedly involved in doing this–they lied about it,” says Kline. “They certainly tried to cover it up.”

Here’s something else that has been established, from the Time story:

“Members of Congress, as well as military sources, have confirmed the critical details of TIME’s initial report–that after gunning down the five fleeing the taxi, a few members of Kilo Company moved through four homes along nearby streets, killing 19 men, women and children. The Marines contend they took small-arms fire from at least one house, but as TIME’s story detailed in March, only one of the 19 victims was found with a weapon.”

There’s military confirmation of this account,Dugger.

But what did the military say when Timefirst started investigating:

“To be honest,” Marine Captain Jeff Pool e-mailed McGirk, “I cannot believe you’re buying any of this. This falls into the same category of AQI (al-Qaeda in Iraq) propaganda.”

“that there were Iraqis executed by unnamed marines in Haditha seems to be pretty well established.”

This has not been established at all, unless you consider Murtha as having established it. And of course Bill, if Marines” executed” Iraqis as you and Murtha allege, then the case is already closed and we don’t need an investigation. Proceed to sentencing!!

And it wasn’t just Eason Jordan or foreign. Linda Foley and the newsaper guild ring a bell. Her remarks were made in the ‘foreign’ city of St Louis, Missouri, Qatar. And why didn’t we punish a bunch of those marines once CNN and the Guild “established” they were targeting journalists. Can’t understand that. Just like this one, its in the MSM and Murtha is a veteran, so the Marines MUST be guilty. BTW, this was about the time that foreign news magazine Newsweek established that US trioops were flushing Korans down the toilet. Why didn’t we punish those troops? Some of them were acting like Nazis anyway per Democratic senator Durbin. Punish the sumbitches!!!! Progressives have judged!!!

Dugger

And did you happen to notice that word  ongoing in your little quote? Why does it need to be ongoing if progressives like Murtha know and have publicly announced their guilt? Yeah, go back and tell them to end the  ongoing investigation. They are guilty per Murtha.

And thanks for your help.

I assume by “help” you mean pointing out the stupidity of arguing that Murtha has “pre-judged” anyone. The fact that there were Iraqis executed by unnamed marines in Haditha seems to be pretty well established. The only “ongoing” aspects to this horror are the determination of which marines are responsible and whether there are any mitigating circumstances (i.e. combat stress).

We know only what Bush-hating liberal newspapers say. And maybe someone did not intentionally shoot a little girl. Maybe someone did not know the little girl was there. Maybe bad guys put the little girl in the line of fire – as they have been known to do. And I condemn plenty of acts by service people – if they legally or morally deserve condemnation (as some, like Calley, do). But I do say you have to consider, like cops, the environment our democratic society asks these young people to operate in. And finally, I refuse to condemn GIs risking their lives under fire until I have a good idea, a really good idea, of what happened. I remember earlier reports of our GIs in Iraq  targeting reporters. Remember that? Were those poor sumbitches guilty too? Should we have strung them up per the media reports (with Murtha s endorsement, of course)?

How sad can you get. This is the best the “semper fi” crowd can muster. A begrudging acknowlegement that one of the killers at My Lai deserved what he got (which ultimately amounted to just 3 1/2 years, much of it under house arrest, or just 1 month for every 10 men, women, and children killed). How brave. So deep runs the pro-Bush pathology that even the exposure of a war crime as heinous as the slaughter of innocent civilians, including children, can be dismissed as “Bush-hater” rhetoric. Put aside that there are photos of the event showing many of the killings were carried out “execution style.” That doesn’t prove there weren’t any bad guys grabbing civilians for human shields. Bad guys do that, don’t you know. They are notorious for grabbing kids and throwing them into the line of fire. Particularly when such phantoms help excuse the otherwise inexcusable. Did I miss the investigation into the possiblity that journalists (specifically foreign journalists) were being targeted? In fact, as I recall, the “series of reports” attacking our troops for purportedly targeting journalists never went any further than reporting on the CNN executive who made the claim while at a conference in Switzerland. There were other scattered reports, but none penetrated the U.S. mainstream. So the ultimate result of that “investigation” was the intimidation and resignation of the CNN exec who made the statement. What of the shooting incident with the female italian journalist, or the near simultaneous attacks on the Al Jazeera facilities in Baghdad, the Abu Dhabi TV facilities, and the media facilities and personnel at the Palestine Hotel, all on April 8, 2003? What about Bush’s call to bomb the al-Jazeera facilities in Qatar? But hey, that’s reality, so forget it. Better to focus on the non-existent persecution of those “poor sumbitches.” And let’s be clear, the real “sum-bitches” who are giving the orders while sitting cooly out of harm’s way aren’t getting investigated, they’re getting promoted.

Oh, and you’re welcome.

And what of Mr. Kline?

Or where Jessie MacBeth was a representative of the Democratic party. Seems to me only you 31%ers care about him.

Maybe you could start off by asking him if Jesse MacBeth is telling the truth.

Fat Bastard – Lying, draft-dodging Bill Clinton wasn’t worthy to lick the shit off Bob Dole’s shoes. But that didn’t stop Democrats from pummeling Dole with dispicable lies about being the most evil person in American politics.

Dugger

I got news for you Dugger, the man most responsible for the present environment that our democratic society has asked these young people to operate in is George W. Bush. Here’s the simple truth: Our invasion of Iraq could have been the glorious success that you expected and now desperately hope it would be but for one thing: George W. Bush didn’t care enough to ensure success. He just didn’t give a shit. He still doesn’t.

“Defense attorneys EXPECT the Marine Corps to file murder charges against one or more Marines who conducted raids in Haditha in November that resulted in the deaths of more than 20 Iraqi civilians, according to sources close to the investigation …. But these sources say they EXPECTED murder charges against one or more Marines. One source said prosecutors might seek the death penalty.”

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060525-122158-2945r.htm

IDIOT.

How is he doing harm? Colluding with the enemy? Financial support?
No, only the Bush family does that sort of shit. http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/012303A.ma.dead.htm

Dugger

I am a Vietnam combat veteran. I understand full well the type of situation those Marines were in. These are allegations. I believe that the case should and will be fully investigated and that the Marines involved will be treated fairly by the military justice system.

I talk to commanders and soldiers all the time about the circumstances they face in Iraq. I talk to not only the brass at the Pentagon, but to the officers in the field and the soldiers I see every week at Bethesda and Walter Reed medical centers with their arms and legs blown off by IEDs. I am acutely aware of the type of situation those Marines were in. Our soldiers are incredibly brave and are fighting in an extremely difficult combat environment with extremely difficult rules of engagement. They perform heroically and have been for going on four years now, with very few exceptions. As a nation, we can be extremely proud of the conduct of our US military.

As I’ve said, I understand the fog of war and the confusion of battle. But we are a nation of laws, including the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). The United States of America has never condoned, nor should it ever condone, indiscriminate, deliberate killing of civilians. When we do that, we become no better than the enemy we are trying to eradicate.

Further, to ignore this incident, which happened six months ago and has now been publicized around the world, is to invite criticism that the United States does not practice what it preaches. That will severely undermine our goals of promoting democracy, as did the Abu Ghraib scandal. Again, the United States of America does not condone the deliberate killing of innocent civilians.

http://www.house.gov/murtha/iraq_stance.shtml

Idiots.

Amen.

First rule of politics. When the shite hits the fan…look for someone to blame.

Dugger has been using that hackneyed “Bush hater” theme for ages. As if that someone discredits the argument that this is a very serious matter, that will reflect very poorly on the U.S. if found to be true.

There is nothing wrong with holding our leaders accountable in a free, democratic society.

If Dugger were put under the truth serum, he would sweep this sucker under the rug because “war is hell.” What’s a few civilian casualties?

I am happy, however, that we live in the greatest country in the world. We have a system of “checks and balances” that allows our three branches of government to keep a watchfull eye on the other, so that no branch becomes too powerfull.

Murtha might be a shrill mouthpiece….but he’s simply fulfilling a constitutional obligation, in my view, in questioning the prosecution of this war.

And yes, once again, Dugger…it bears repeating that you aren’t, and never will be fit to eat the shite off of his shoes.

JK

Quite an impressive rant, Dugger. But do you really believe all of it ?

And thanks for your help.

And Elrod, your ‘traitor’ comment is a strawman. I actually don’t consider Murtha an “Elk’ or an Albanian for what he did either. So what. It was still dumb as dirt and patently unfair to GIs risking their lives to serve us all. And I do care (I bet you do too) if the Marines get a fair , unprejudiced trial – if it comes to that.

Quaker,

All apples and oranges. We really don’t know who reported what. We know only what Bush-hating liberal newspapers say. And maybe someone did not intentionally shoot a little girl. Maybe someone did not know the little girl was there. Maybe bad guys put the little girl in the line of fire – as they have been known to do. And I condemn plenty of acts by service people – if they legally or morally deserve condemnation (as some, like Calley, do). But I do say you have to consider, like cops, the environment our democratic society asks these young people to operate in. And finally, I refuse to condemn GIs risking their lives under fire until I have a good idea, a really good idea, of what happened. I remember earlier reports of our GIs in Iraq ‘targeting’ reporters. Remember that? Were those poor sumbitches guilty too? Should we have strung them up per the media reports (with Murtha’s endorsement, of course)?

Dugger