I’m waiting on all those idiots to issue their apologies to him. Not holding my breath.
Official: Marines could be charged with murder
Investigators believe that their criminal investigation into the deaths of about two dozen Iraqi civilians points toward a conclusion that Marines committed unprovoked murders, a senior defense official said Friday.
The Marine Corps initially reported 15 deaths and said they were caused by a roadside bomb and an ensuing firefight with insurgents. A separate investigation is seeking to determine if Marines lied to cover up the killings.
The official, who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the yet-to-be-completed investigation, said the evidence developed by investigators strongly indicates the killings last November in the insurgent-plagued city of Haditha in the western province of Anbar were unjustified.
>> August: “How in the hell did they get it right where Michelle Malkin, TownHall, PowerLine, and FreeRepublic got it wrong?”
How ’bout this?
Murtha is a partisan idiot who prejudged the Marines actions. Regardless, of how it turns out, that prejudgement is still the act of a bitter, hack politician who puts his own party’s interest ahead of a fair, impartial hearing for the troops. In fact, with Murtha’s charge of ‘guilty’ before any findings were issued, it may well be that he made it imposssible for those Marines to get a fair hearing.
Dugger
Ollie, save the headline for their conviction would ya?
WHY do you feel the compunction to show absolutely no faith in our system of justice and our military?
The perpetrators of Abu Ghraib are in prison….the system works.
The Haditha Incident…
I want to see justice done here - not only for those Marines involved, but for the families of those who lost loved ones in the incident. If this is indeed as claimed in the news stories, the Corps, and indeed this country, have been dishonored by th…..
My Lai in Iraq…….
From Hot Air: I meant to post about this last week when Murtha was making the rounds but I got caught up in other things. Yeah, it’s awful and par for the course that he’d pronounce the Marines guilty before……
Dr Pedro, the “enablers of Abu Ghraib” are sitting at the Pentagon behind mahogany desks.
Pedro, does anything appall you? Everything’s going to hell, and you think the system works? If it worked, Bush would have been impeached long ago for fibbing his way into this insane war.
Fuck Pedrolito. He isn’t even worth the cost of shipping his doughy ass, priority overnight, to Iraq. But oh how I’d love to do it, just to see the reaction he gets as he tries to explain the justice of it all to the family members of those massacred in this disasterous war he and his dwindling ilk continue to support.
Fuck you, Pedrolito.
To establish your credibility, drpedro, just how skeptical were you of the entire Whitewater investigation? How does a blow-job RELATE to a real-estate deal?
Jack Murtha is retired Marine with 28 years of service. He’s a mustang, meaning that he started as an enlisted man and became an officer. He’s a former DI, which is where the Corps puts its very best.
You, Dugger, aren’t fit to lick the shite off that man’s shoes.
Sod off, you villanous little piece of elephant turd.
Oh, when will lefties learn? These were rogue marines and incidents like this are rare.
The system works.
Those responsible are prosecuted…especially if they are women and make headlines.
The military doesn’t need to set up scapegoats.
What warcrimes?
Let me help Dugger re-phrase his bullshit informed opinion:
“Murtha is a 37 year veteran with two Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star with a Combat “V,” and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry and a member of the House Appropriations committee. Just because his position offers him access to information not generally known to the undisputed experts on all things Iraq…by which I mean me…doesn’t mean he isn’t a partisan traitor. How on Earth will these hapless child killers marines ever get a fair civilian military trial now that their crimes have been exposed? Why can’t the lefties like the scorchingly liberal anti-abortion, pro-gun control, pro-Gulf War Murtha get with the program and shut their pie holes? Screw decency and international law, what about these poor soldiers!?!?!?”
Fair trial…too funny. Like there’s going to be a problem with jury selection or something.
Murtha would not have ‘prejudged’ those marines if the evidence wasnt solidly behind him.
Um, maybe Murtha saw the evidence before it was released to the public. Somehow I doubt he was “prejudging” the Marines.
Dammit, Blogger ate my formatting. All my faux censorship is gone (”bullshit,” “child killers,” and “civilian” were crossed out…see, not nearly as clever…or something). Oh blogger, you have defanged by once biting commentary.
Murtha is a hack politician who curries favor with the party’s elite excluisve power structure by using his past military experience to cheap shot with a credential US service people. He is now in Ramsey Clark-Cindy Sheehan territory. He has no business, no business prejudging the legal system and making it harder for those GIs to get a fair heraring. He has created political pressure for a conviction. And you know thats the truth.
Dugger
I meant Dugger, Sorry Frank.
In fact, with Murtha s charge of guilty before any findings were issued, it may well be that he made it imposssible for those Marines to get a fair hearing.
LOL
What were you thinking, Frank? Are, you afraid Murtha has affected the jury pool?
LOL (again)
Maybe they should ask for a change of venue.
Murtha will get lots of help seeing to it that the Marines don’t get a fair trial.
Don’t worry, Bushwacked, being mistaken for Dugger is not such a bad thing to me.
Anyone who opposes Murtha’s efforts to bring the offending soldiers to justice is objectively pro-terrorist.
I’d be willing to bet that the accused marines have already all but confessed and their trial will hinge on a combat stress defense of some sort. That may explain Murtha’s willingness to come out and label the aincident a deliberate massacre before any trial has taken place.
Murtha will get lots of help seeing to it that the Marines don t get a fair trial.
Why, is the trial being held at Gitmo? Abu Ghraib? Are they being secretly whisked away to any of our new lavish justice free zones around the world?
This isn’t the first time this has happened.
This is the logical progression from killing injured combatants.
Even ones already bleeding to death.
While this is no My Lai in scale, I think it represents the same mindset. The soldiers in Iraq, like Vietnam, are up against an opponent that doesn’t march information or wear easily identifiable uniforms. Combine that with a population where a large percentage of the citizens, if not actually engaging in attacks, are hostile to your continued presence, and you are simply begging for trouble.
Come now, BW. The soldiers will be ‘tried’ numerous ways. Will they be sacrificed at the altar of public opinion because hateful old doddering fools like Murtha have been all over procliaming them guilty.
And if you are asking me if, at certain times and certain places, military people, can do expedient things in the interest of placating the public and media - the answer is unfortunately ‘yes’. Murtha has now created great political pressure to punish these soldiers - that he ‘knows’ are guilty. I hope strong, intelligent men and women are in the right positions to fairly judge events. Men and women who will resist the progressives who have already judged and await gleefully, punishment.
Dugger
Maybe you mean in the “court of public opinion”? That may or may not be true, but has nothing to do with the real trial. One the other hand if the public feels that someone is being treated unfairly by the military, such has even greater effect.
Men and women who will resist the progressives who have already judged and await gleefully, punishment.
Most progressives I know opposed placing our men and women in the position they are in by invading Iraq in the first place. Many of them either served, have brothers, sisters, sons and daughters, who are currently in the military or both.
Murtha was right — probably — but he’s still a political hack. I saw his December ‘05 “redeployment” speech on C - SPAN in the last few days — twice. Funny how the “unbiased” C - SPAN showed that particular speech a couple of times in the last few days, eh?
Nauseating.
I was wondering if Dugger could do me a favor and actually name any of the defendants? Nothing’s worse then having your nameless, faceless reputation trashed in the media. It makes it so hard to come back to a normal life.
Let me help Dugger again:
“Relying, no doubt, on his access to the findings of an ongoing military investigation, Murtha has pointed out that some unidentified Marines have committed murder! How will they ever get a fair trial when virtually nobody can identify them? Curse you old man! You are clearly soft in the melon, “doddering,” as it were. Those progressives who continually call for a complete investigation and the guilty to be punished are no better. Lynch mob! What loons, with their daft fears of potential military cover-ups, as though that could ever happen. I believe that after this hoplessly corrupted investigation is over that some marines will be sacrificed on the altar of public opinion and the facts in this case forever lost. For all we know those women and children executed themselves.
SEMPER FI!!!”
“Will they be sacrificed at the altar of public opinion because hateful old doddering fools like Murtha have been all over procliaming them guilty.”
Sacrificed?
Fact is, those Iraqi civilians are dead beyond a reasonable doubt. Another fact is, the Marines initially reported they were killed by a roadside bomb and subsequent shootout and that story was entirely made up.
Who knows, Dug? Maybe somebody had a really good reason to shoot a one-year-old girl and her mother. They might have been “terrorists” after all.
Is there any act–any at all–performed by someone in a U.S. uniform that you will condemn?
No, I mean besides John Kerry’s salute.
Name a single elected Congressman who isn’t a political hack. I don’t consider Murtha “heroic” for castigating these Marines at Haditha. But I also don’t consider him a traitor for doing it. Who know what Murtha’s thinking. I don’t imagine any politician is pure of heart. That said, I do know that Murtha has a lot of contacts within the armed forces, and he most likely didn’t shoot off his mouth without having some inside knowledge of the investigation and charges. Whether that prejudices some potential jury pool is about the last possible worry I have.
Bill, I can’t name a defendant, but it doesn’t matter. Blood is in the water. Progressives want Marines in jail (it won’t matter to them if they are actually guilty or not -as long as some get put away) - as a way to get Bush and punish the hated military. And did you happen to notice that word “ongoing” in your little quote? Why does it need to be ongoing if progressives like Murtha know and have publicly announced their guilt? Yeah, go back and tell them to end the ‘ongoing’ investigation. They are guilty per Murtha.
And thanks for your help.
And Elrod, your ‘traitor’ comment is a strawman. I actually don’t consider Murtha an “Elk’ or an Albanian for what he did either. So what. It was still dumb as dirt and patently unfair to GIs risking their lives to serve us all. And I do care (I bet you do too) if the Marines get a fair , unprejudiced trial - if it comes to that.
Quaker,
All apples and oranges. We really don’t know who reported what. We know only what Bush-hating liberal newspapers say. And maybe someone did not intentionally shoot a little girl. Maybe someone did not know the little girl was there. Maybe bad guys put the little girl in the line of fire - as they have been known to do. And I condemn plenty of acts by service people - if they legally or morally deserve condemnation (as some, like Calley, do). But I do say you have to consider, like cops, the environment our democratic society asks these young people to operate in. And finally, I refuse to condemn GIs risking their lives under fire until I have a good idea, a really good idea, of what happened. I remember earlier reports of our GIs in Iraq ‘targeting’ reporters. Remember that? Were those poor sumbitches guilty too? Should we have strung them up per the media reports (with Murtha’s endorsement, of course)?
Dugger
Progressives want Marines in jail (it won t matter to them if they are actually guilty or not -as long as some get put away) - as a way to get Bush and punish the hated military.
Quite an impressive rant, Dugger. But do you really believe all of it ?
Murtha’s “pull out” speech was on again today. Obviously part of how the “impartial” C-SPAN celebrates Memorial Day…
>>You, Dugger, aren t fit to lick the shite off that man s shoes.
Amen.
First rule of politics. When the shite hits the fan…look for someone to blame.
Dugger has been using that hackneyed “Bush hater” theme for ages. As if that someone discredits the argument that this is a very serious matter, that will reflect very poorly on the U.S. if found to be true.
There is nothing wrong with holding our leaders accountable in a free, democratic society.
If Dugger were put under the truth serum, he would sweep this sucker under the rug because “war is hell.” What’s a few civilian casualties?
I am happy, however, that we live in the greatest country in the world. We have a system of “checks and balances” that allows our three branches of government to keep a watchfull eye on the other, so that no branch becomes too powerfull.
Murtha might be a shrill mouthpiece….but he’s simply fulfilling a constitutional obligation, in my view, in questioning the prosecution of this war.
And yes, once again, Dugger…it bears repeating that you aren’t, and never will be fit to eat the shite off of his shoes.
JK
Murtha on Haditha:
I am a Vietnam combat veteran. I understand full well the type of situation those Marines were in. These are allegations. I believe that the case should and will be fully investigated and that the Marines involved will be treated fairly by the military justice system.
I talk to commanders and soldiers all the time about the circumstances they face in Iraq. I talk to not only the brass at the Pentagon, but to the officers in the field and the soldiers I see every week at Bethesda and Walter Reed medical centers with their arms and legs blown off by IEDs. I am acutely aware of the type of situation those Marines were in. Our soldiers are incredibly brave and are fighting in an extremely difficult combat environment with extremely difficult rules of engagement. They perform heroically and have been for going on four years now, with very few exceptions. As a nation, we can be extremely proud of the conduct of our US military.
As I’ve said, I understand the fog of war and the confusion of battle. But we are a nation of laws, including the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). The United States of America has never condoned, nor should it ever condone, indiscriminate, deliberate killing of civilians. When we do that, we become no better than the enemy we are trying to eradicate.
Further, to ignore this incident, which happened six months ago and has now been publicized around the world, is to invite criticism that the United States does not practice what it preaches. That will severely undermine our goals of promoting democracy, as did the Abu Ghraib scandal. Again, the United States of America does not condone the deliberate killing of innocent civilians.
http://www.house.gov/murtha/iraq_stance.shtml
Idiots.
Murtha is a partisan hack who is doing harm to Marines in combat.
Dugger
I think Dugger’s needle just skipped.
“Murtha is a partisan hack who is doing harm to Marines in combat.”
How is he doing harm? Colluding with the enemy? Financial support?
No, only the Bush family does that sort of shit. http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/012303A.ma.dead.htm
Oh and Dugger, you jackass, please tell me that you think the Washington Times is part of the vast liberal conspiracy against Bush:
“Defense attorneys EXPECT the Marine Corps to file murder charges against one or more Marines who conducted raids in Haditha in November that resulted in the deaths of more than 20 Iraqi civilians, according to sources close to the investigation …. But these sources say they EXPECTED murder charges against one or more Marines. One source said prosecutors might seek the death penalty.”
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060525-122158-2945r.htm
IDIOT.
“Murtha is a partisan hack who is doing harm to Marines in combat.”
I got news for you Dugger, the man most responsible for the present environment that our democratic society has asked these young people to operate in is George W. Bush. Here’s the simple truth: Our invasion of Iraq could have been the glorious success that you expected and now desperately hope it would be but for one thing: George W. Bush didn’t care enough to ensure success. He just didn’t give a shit. He still doesn’t.
Murtha is a very powerful politician. He has publicly stated that the Marines are guilty. This creates powerful pressure to see these “guilty” soldiers punished. Ther are other left wing politicans as anti-war as Murtha and they have not gone public with their prejudgements. They have better sense and understand these people deserve fair play. Murtha does not. You guys should be able to sort out the honorable anti-war types, ones with whom I still strongly disagree, the Feingold’s etc, from the nasty hacks like Murtha.
Dugger
Well, since Jack Murtha obviously knows everything about anything military, you should just make Murtha the Democrat’s universal “answer man.”
Maybe you could start off by asking him if Jesse MacBeth is telling the truth.
Fat Bastard - Lying, draft-dodging Bill Clinton wasn’t worthy to lick the shit off Bob Dole’s shoes. But that didn’t stop Democrats from pummeling Dole with dispicable lies about being the most evil person in American politics.
I must have forgotten how the Democrats tried to diminish Dole’s service to the country by lying about his service record. Link?
Or where Jessie MacBeth was a representative of the Democratic party. Seems to me only you 31%ers care about him.
Murtha is a partisan hack who is doing harm to Marines in combat.
And what of Mr. Kline?
Hey Dugs, let’s get something straight. Do you think Time Magazine was should have investigated this story and reported what it found?
I assume by “help” you mean pointing out the stupidity of arguing that Murtha has “pre-judged” anyone. The fact that there were Iraqis executed by unnamed marines in Haditha seems to be pretty well established. The only “ongoing” aspects to this horror are the determination of which marines are responsible and whether there are any mitigating circumstances (i.e. combat stress).
How sad can you get. This is the best the “semper fi” crowd can muster. A begrudging acknowlegement that one of the killers at My Lai deserved what he got (which ultimately amounted to just 3 1/2 years, much of it under house arrest, or just 1 month for every 10 men, women, and children killed). How brave. So deep runs the pro-Bush pathology that even the exposure of a war crime as heinous as the slaughter of innocent civilians, including children, can be dismissed as “Bush-hater” rhetoric. Put aside that there are photos of the event showing many of the killings were carried out “execution style.” That doesn’t prove there weren’t any bad guys grabbing civilians for human shields. Bad guys do that, don’t you know. They are notorious for grabbing kids and throwing them into the line of fire. Particularly when such phantoms help excuse the otherwise inexcusable. Did I miss the investigation into the possiblity that journalists (specifically foreign journalists) were being targeted? In fact, as I recall, the “series of reports” attacking our troops for purportedly targeting journalists never went any further than reporting on the CNN executive who made the claim while at a conference in Switzerland. There were other scattered reports, but none penetrated the U.S. mainstream. So the ultimate result of that “investigation” was the intimidation and resignation of the CNN exec who made the statement. What of the shooting incident with the female italian journalist, or the near simultaneous attacks on the Al Jazeera facilities in Baghdad, the Abu Dhabi TV facilities, and the media facilities and personnel at the Palestine Hotel, all on April 8, 2003? What about Bush’s call to bomb the al-Jazeera facilities in Qatar? But hey, that’s reality, so forget it. Better to focus on the non-existent persecution of those “poor sumbitches.” And let’s be clear, the real “sum-bitches” who are giving the orders while sitting cooly out of harm’s way aren’t getting investigated, they’re getting promoted.
Oh, and you’re welcome.
Bill
“that there were Iraqis executed by unnamed marines in Haditha seems to be pretty well established.”
This has not been established at all, unless you consider Murtha as having established it. And of course Bill, if Marines” executed” Iraqis as you and Murtha allege, then the case is already closed and we don’t need an investigation. Proceed to sentencing!!
And it wasn’t just Eason Jordan or foreign. Linda Foley and the newsaper guild ring a bell. Her remarks were made in the ‘foreign’ city of St Louis, Missouri, Qatar. And why didn’t we punish a bunch of those marines once CNN and the Guild “established” they were targeting journalists. Can’t understand that. Just like this one, its in the MSM and Murtha is a veteran, so the Marines MUST be guilty. BTW, this was about the time that foreign news magazine Newsweek established that US trioops were flushing Korans down the toilet. Why didn’t we punish those troops? Some of them were acting like Nazis anyway per Democratic senator Durbin. Punish the sumbitches!!!! Progressives have judged!!!
Dugger
“This has not been established at all, unless you consider Murtha as having established it.”
You guys are just being thick. According to Time magazine both Murtha and Kline were briefed on the expected conclusions of the military’s own investigation:
“The darkest suspicions about the killings were confirmed last week, when members of Congress who were briefed on the two ongoing military investigations disclosed that at least some members of a Marine unit may soon be charged in connection with the deaths of the Iraqis–and that the charges may include murder, which carries the death penalty. “This was a small number of Marines who fired directly on civilians and killed them,” said Representative John Kline, a Minnesota Republican and former Marine who was briefed two weeks ago by Marine Corps officials. “This is going to be an ugly story.”
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1198892,00.html
In other words, anything Murtha and Kline have said about the incident thay are basing on what the MILITARY TOLD THEM. They are not speculating, they are not making shit up, they are not repeating what the NY Times or CNN reported. What Murtha and Kline were both told BY THE MILITARY was that some of the marines might be charged with murder.
That’s what ’s been established,Dugger. IN addition to the fact that the marines tried to cover up what happened. As Kine noted:
“There’s no doubt that the Marines allegedly involved in doing this–they lied about it,” says Kline. “They certainly tried to cover it up.”
Here’s something else that has been established, from the Time story:
“Members of Congress, as well as military sources, have confirmed the critical details of TIME’s initial report–that after gunning down the five fleeing the taxi, a few members of Kilo Company moved through four homes along nearby streets, killing 19 men, women and children. The Marines contend they took small-arms fire from at least one house, but as TIME’s story detailed in March, only one of the 19 victims was found with a weapon.”
There’s military confirmation of this account,Dugger.
But what did the military say when Timefirst started investigating:
“To be honest,” Marine Captain Jeff Pool e-mailed McGirk, “I cannot believe you’re buying any of this. This falls into the same category of AQI (al-Qaeda in Iraq) propaganda.”
Mike– The subject isn’t Bill Clinton’s dick, even if you dumb sonsabitches can’t come up with anything else to wave around. The subject was Jack Murtha and his service to this country.
And where did ANYONE ever denigrate Bob Dole’s service to this country? Did someone sell purple-heart bandaids at a Democratic convention?
Bill Clinton is a liar with a wet dick and a pissed-off wife. George W. Bush is a liar with the blood of thousands on his hands.
FB