Slamming McCain
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Here’s the thing. If you’re an average American and you believe that John McCain is still speaking favorably about a war of choice that has killed 2,400 Americans and thousands of Iraqis – how can one sit there silently? I’m all about showing people respect – I once went to a friend’s graduation ceremony where Mitt Romney was the commencement speaker – but when a senator keeps hammering away at the idea that the Iraq war was justified in the face of everything to the contrary, I don’t think its a violation of any significance to note that. Civility kind of goes out the door when we’re talking about dead people.
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The views on this site are mine and mine alone, and do not reflect the views of my employer, Media Matters for America
© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
All wars are wars of choice – you choose to fight, or your choose to surrender. We have a ruthless evil enemy in Radical Islam, an enemy that must be confronted and destroyed. In this confrontation we will lose brave men and women, and many innocent civilians will be killed. Yes, the people of Iraq never attacked us, but then again, the people of Hiroshima never attacked us, either…
Wanna guess who wrote that?
You seem quite proud that Truman targeted a massive civilian population, in order to send a very clear message to Japan: surrender or die. During that same war we fought in dozens of countries that never attacked us, and inadvertently killed many of their civilians, in the process of liberating them from the Nazis.
We are doing nothing less than exactly the same thing in Iraq, with a politically correct restraint not seen in WW2.
If fighting the Islamists in Iraq is unjustifiable, than please explain to me how fighting the Nazis in North Africa, Italy, France, and Belgium was.
-phil
By telegraphing his speech ahead of time, McCain set himself up for a pre-emptive response. His canned speech said that dissent was a good thing, but condescended to those of college age by suggesting that he was wiser due to his years, and that therefore their “dissent” was cute but hardly useful.
Perhaps Mr. McCain is unaware that those college students who protested the Vietnam war were correct, and as soon as my own Army hitch ended, I joined them. If nearly 40 years years since then have made ME “wiser,” they have certainly not changed my opinion of the Vietnam war, nor of the atrocity of the current conflict. If anything, the years of contemplation have reinforced my low opinion of these conflicts.
When did my country become the one that commits atrocities? How will we explain to our grandchildren that we were merely “good Germans?”
McCain’s trotting out the chestnut about how “if you’re not a liberal in your 20s, you have no heart; if you’re not a conservative in your 30s, you have no brains.”
Age and experience does not automatically beget wisdom. Those who would say otherwise are the ones you should trust least.
BD, It’s not entirely about wisdom. It’s more to do with experience.
First, you learn that people are truly resistant to change, for reasons you never imagined — many of them good reasons.
Then you learn about the “Law of Unintended Consequences”, which says that you may want A to happen, and it might, but with it you get B, C, and D, which were neither expected nor pleasant.
Finally, you learn that over time, which can only be experienced, things change very little.
If you learn those things, and how to apply them, then you will probably be a little wiser. Any wisdom I have, beyond those three lessons, is strictly a gift from God.
To the point, the person who addresses you at your commencement is worthy of your public courtesy and respect. If you don’t want to applaud him / her, fine, but, booing and turning your back…
You’re graduating from College, for Pete’s sake!
Frank_D, I have been to 3 commencement ceremonies (coming up on my 4th), all featuring intelligent, articulate commencement speakers. None of them had the gall to act like condescedending asses to those of us who served as their hosts. McCain is one of the few instances of speakers I’ve heard who’ve chosen to act in such a petulant manner towards the students.
I concur with you completely, Oliver. McCain is in serious pander mode right now with the religious and wingnut right and it is truly sickening. There can be no doubt that he is running for President. While I would still like to think the best of the man, I won’t be voting for him.
Not what I would want to hear, but if I had parents coming to my graduation I wouldn’t want to miss it,or act like a juvenile delinquent, either.
I think that any speaker who announces before a commencement that he / she is going to give the same speech this Tuesday that they gave last Tuesday, so to say, should be denounced by someone, somewhere, but manners are manners.
There’s really nothing to commend McCain.
He went to the Naval Academy–largely out of his family’s legacy; he didn’t exactly distinguish himself there, graduating very close to the bottom of his class. His dad got him into flight school (something his grades wouldn’t have) and the rest is history.
He gets shot down over VN, he spends time as a POW. His first wife spends a great deal of time calling attention to his (and other POWs) plight and when he’s released–McCain spends most of his energies pursuing other women. Eventually, they divorce.
McCain makes 0-6 and drives everyone nuts at the Pentagon with his hair-trigger temper and wild demeanor. He continues to pursue women and has a reputation as a party boy.
He marries the heir to some liquor fortune in AZ. Her family’s money allows McCain to successfully run for Congress.
His wife is caught forging prescriptions but somehow escapes prison. McCain becomes part of the Keating Five.
AWOL George runs the foulest campaign against McCain but McCain refuses to respond.
Day – um, JadeGold, you don’t like him, do you? Did he run over your dog?
And there is something very simple to commend McCain (never mind your blithe dismissal of 5 and one half years in a POW camp in Viet nam, as if it were a weekend in the local lockup for D & D).
The College administration picked him to speak at the Commencement. Period. He’s entitled to simple courtesy. Period.
Keep score for the next few weeks — see how many left wing speakers get booed and shouted down, have underclassmen turn their backs on them, and other blatant demonstrations of disrespect.
That will tell you all you need to know about what’s happening here.
The College administration picked him to speak at the Commencement. Period. He s entitled to simple courtesy. Period.
No more courtesy than he showed the graduating class, by delivering a canned, condescending speech that much of the student body had read on his website before the cerermony and disagreed with.
Just because the guy is a whore and is getting paid anyway, it doesn’t follow that you need to have sex with him.
I guess not applauding him, or not standing for him isn’t enough. He’s going to be a jerk, so you think these graduates should be downright rude.
OK.
As I already said
Though his time in as a P.O.W. garners my sympathy (as well it should, we’re not talking Hogan’s Heroes people), his pandering to the far right and willingness to apparently compromise any personal belief for political gain rightfully earns him my disdain. Were the students right to voice their opposition at the commencement (the hecklers, not the graduating seniors chosen to speak)? I suppose that’s debatable, though they were certainly free to turn their backs and visually display their disgust. As for the fact that McCain was picked by the college administration to speak, er, so what? The board is paid with the tuition money from the students and commencement is for them, not the faculty. Perhaps had McCain demonstrated a firm commitment to his principles, whatever ones he has beyond doing anything to get elected, he might have earned that coveted “respect” and been allowed to speak without disruption. Being invited (and paid?) to speak at a function doesn’t entitle him to anything, except maybe a modest check and some press. I do admit I am pleased to see the “John McCain, Straight Shootin’ Maverick(R)” facade crumbling and his lazy canned speechs/whistle stops getting the appropriate icy reception. However, I am torn over whether the protests should have held back on the vocal attacks and restricted themselves to strictly visual forms of expression. Sometimes a silent stare (or turned back) can be more effective than any verbal taunt.
Day – um, JadeGold, you don t like him, do you? Did he run over your dog?
Probably not. Jadegold is one of those people who is so pathetic, that the only way he can feel good about himself is to tear others down. He was one of those kids we all knew in school that got picked on all the time. The kind of kid that was always picked last in gym class. The kind of kid that was related to his prom date. In short, a loser.
It’s the reason why you never and I mean never see him contribute anything of value in the comment sections. If he were a basketball player, the amount of times he he’s been banned from weblogs would be the same as the amount of technical fouls amassed by Rasheed Wallace.
To paraphrase the honorable Frank…
“Day – um, Jay C, you don t like JadeGold, do you? Did he run over your dog?”
In that long diatribe I didn’t see you actually dispute anything he said. Hell, most of what he said is exactly what you all yelled at Kerry for. (War isn’t that bad, marries the rich heiress etc.) For someone who claims that Jade only feels good by tearing down others… uh… pot calling kettle black much?
The reason Jay C doesn’t dispute what I wrote is because he can’t. Truth makes extremists of the 82nd Chairborne–like Jay Caruso–very uncomfortable.
It’s good to see that not everyone is lapping up McCain’s pandering. I don’t know how the guy got a reputation as a maverick. He’s about the same as Arlen Specter in how he’s against something right up until he capitulates in time to vote the White House line.
I wonder if McCain is going to trot out the same speech again. It might play better at The Citadel or Bob Jones U or Oklahoma Baptist University. Third time’s a charm.
Leroy, I’m not going to waste my time disputing anything Jade ‘Flanagan’ Gold writes, because he’s authored more lies than I could count. Besides, JG’s ire for McCain is limited to the fact that McCain is a Republican. JG over here worships at the altar of people like Ted Kennedy, a person who is the textbook example of family priviledge. Made rich via inheriting Daddy’s bootlegging money, his connections allowed him to beat a murder rap and he’s consumed more alcohol and chased more whores than Babe Ruth. Yet, people here should take seriously JG’s teardown of John McCain? Not.
Jade also makes claim to have served in the military, so he thinks that gives him license to call others ‘chickenhawks.’ Of course, we don’t know that he served and because he lies so often, I come down on the side of him being full of sheot. Hey Jade, why don’t you tell everybody finally what that “federal military academy” is you attended and those “two foreign wars” you claim to have fought in. Or have you still forgotten?
Actually, Jay Caruso won’t refute anything I write because he can’t.
As for Ted Kennedy, I can’t recall the last time I wrote anything about him–pro or con; so much for worshipping at his “altar.”
Yes, Jay Caruso, I served in the military and I graduated from a federal military academy. As for having fought in two foreign wars–I’d like to know where that claim came from. It didn’t come from me.
Yes, Jay, you are the quintessential chickenhawk–you believe others should and must serve, just not you. You claim bad eyesight or something but service doesn’t mean you have to enlist and serve on the frontlines. It can mean serving in a VA hospital or the like. But it means sacrifice, Jay–not just a weekend here or there when it’s convenient to you.
Aside from Jay C elementary pissing match… I am all for decorem and politeness, but it is offensive to pander and politik at a graduation speech. When I graduated the founder of Habitat for Humanity spoke and he gave an INSPIRATIONAL speech but that is why you have those sorts of speeches because graduating college is final act before entering the working world. I don’t care if I went to LiberalHateGod University, I don’t want politics inserted into the event. I was proud of my University(University of Alabama) for showing restraint and not having Governor Riley speak. The University of Alabama is a bastion for conservatives but that doesn’t mean it is appropriate to have politics inserted in my educational experience.
OmyGawd, I agree with White Whale!
John McCain got A LOT of moolah — student moolah — to speak at that graduation ceremony, probably somewhere in the 5-digit range.
The speech was pre-posted on his web site and it was pure, campaign-style drivel mixed with utter disdain for his audience.
Also, the New School is an historically liberal college. It was founded BY liberals on left-wing liberal principals, for god’s sake.
So please spare us all this “poor John McCain got heckled by those mean college pukes” crap.
JG, you’ve defended Ted Kennedy’s character previously. John McCain is a saint compared to him, but you basically trash McCain and say there’s nothing commendable about him based on pretty much nothing. Who’s the hypocrite?
Yes, Jay Caruso, I served in the military and I graduated from a federal military academy.
Prove it. You’re an anonymous poster on the Internet. You could claim to be a descendant of Henry VIII. All we have is your word, and that’s not worth a squirt of piss.
Yes, Jay, you are the quintessential chickenhawk you believe others should and must serve, just not you.
I believe others “must serve”? That’s just another one of your many lies. I never said any such thing. I’ll stop hijacking the thread at this point. You’re not going to allow your name to be revealed is it will definitely shine light on what a fraud you are, so I don’t expect to see it.
JG, you ve defended Ted Kennedy s character previously.
Actually, no…I have defended Ted K’s performance and effectiveness as a US Senator. And even TK’s most ardent opponents would admit he’s been tremendously effective.
John McCain is a saint compared to him, but you basically trash McCain and say there s nothing commendable about him based on pretty much nothing.
Pretty much nothing? Keating Five? Getting his wife off on some pretty serious drug charges? His many admitted infidelities? Allowing AWOL George to vilely smear him in the primary?
Prove it
Why don’t we make it a wager, Jay? You should jump at the opportunity–after all, I’m lying, right?
Look, McCain speaking at the New School is a slap in the face to the graduates, a major provocation. Like having Cindy Sheehan speak at West Point.
So, Phile, if all wars are wars of choice, and the choice is between surrender and defending ourselves, then haven’t we surrendered because we aren’t at war with Uruguay?
Obviously, all human acts that are not purely reflex are by ‘choice’ in a pedantic sense. Pedantry, however, does not make for useful political arguments. (You could say that pro-lifers are pro-choice, because people can still choose to have abortions even if they are illegal. Pointless.)
But if you want to fight a war against radical Islam, why attack one of the most secular nations in the Middle East? Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Syria all are more responsible for Islamic terrorism and more responsible for spreading radical Islam. In the list of Saddam Hussein’s villainy, which is a pretty long list, the encouragement of radical Islam is not one of them – indeed, Hussein’s tyrrany was predicated on silencing religious differences because he was a member of the minority sect of Islam. So when Hussein was removed, Iraq became a hotbed of Islamic violence between Sunnis and Shiites.
The difference is that if Cindy Sheehan did speak at West Point. She wouldn’t be booed and heckled.
if Cindy Sheehan did speak at West Point. She wouldn t be booed and heckled.
Most of the cadet corps probably agrees with her. They would probably cheer.