The new reality is superawesome terrific.
National Review’s Mark Levin (who once said John Kerry was Benedict Arnold):
The Constitution and precedent make clear that the president, especially during war-time, can intercept enemy communications, including if those communications involve U.S. citizens within the United States. It is absurd to argue otherwise.
If the president wants to assume wartime powers… declare war then.
Bush told four knowing lies about this today. These will be good to keep in mind whenever you hear about the man’s “personal integrity” and “honesty.” We’ll be hearing about these for some time, I’ll wager.
“First, our international activities strictly target al-Qaida and their known affiliates.”
“Second, the government does not listen to domestic phone calls without court approval.”
“Third, the intelligence activities I authorized are lawful and have been briefed to appropriate members of Congress, both Republican and Democrat.”
“Fourth, the privacy of ordinary Americans is fiercely protected in all our activities.”
Shorter Farris: “I assert that this program is helpful, therefore it is legal”
So, to summarize the “They’re not listening to your calls you moonbats!” argument,
My BushHate compels me give him credit for saving the patient by killing
the patient. But I must follow that compliment with a criticism;
The ‘end run’ around the rules is
signatory of the emotionally retarded, and of an enabled, spoiled, coddled man/child. The Leadership Model of the Commander in Chief is mimicked
by every subordinate who fears losing his job.
Future town squares should all have a statue of the Bully
Patriot for pigeons to shit on daily.
Where does this USA Today article report that NSA is listening to phone calls in this program?
Are Oliver and TomY deliberately lying, or do they just have difficulty understanding what they read?
The usually tepid Margaret Carlsen roast’s the monkey balls then serves it
up cold with a plate of Negroponte bilesauce and Hayden for dessert.
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000039&refer=columnist_carlson&sid=aiwiYcEaOB1c
frameone : Do you think that AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etal. did that long before now ?
I think the real question is, JWG, are you deliberately stupid or do you have difficulty in interpreting what’s right in front of your eyes and ears?
Let me spell this out for you: if they’re listening in on ANY phone calls without court approval (dubiously legal not to mention blatently unconstitutional to anyone that understands the law and reads the fourth amendment), what ELSE are they doing that just hasn’t come out yet? When the wire-tapping thing came out, no one even HINTED to the possibility that they could be keeping a database of EVERY SINGLE DOMESTIC PHONE CALL that is made WITHIN the United States! What possible reason could they have for doing that? It’s none of their business–period.
Where does it end, JWG? When are you going to pull your head out of your ass and finally ask the easy, yet Big Question: Why NOT ask these questions? You nuts are always saying “if you have nothing to hide, then why are you worried about the government tapping your phone line?” Well, nitwit, if the government has nothing to hide, why can’t we have an open and honest review of the who’s and the why’s of the details of this program?
Think before you post, please.
Maybe it depends on what “surveillance” means. TPM points out:
From AG Gonzales’ testimony to Congress on the Warrantless Surveillance Program:
[Sen. Gerald] NADLER: Number two, can you assure us that there is no warrantless surveillance of calls between two Americans within the United States?
GONZALES: That is not what the president has authorized.
NADLER: Can you assure us that it’s not being done?
GONZALES: As I indicated in response to an earlier question, no technology is perfect.
NADLER: OK.
GONZALES: We do have minimization procedures in place…
NADLER: But you’re not doing that deliberately?
GONZALES: That is correct.
But see, this isn’t warrantless “surveillance.” This is more like warrantless “statistical analysis.” They’re looking for patterns, you see. It’s like math. Or Sudoku! Perfectly harmless. Unless you’re a terrorist. If you’re a terrorist, then look out! Our comprehensive database will eventually bring you to justice!
Farris –
I just want to get this clear. You think it is perfectly okay for the US government to keep a permanent record of everyone you call and everyone who calls you. Is that your position?
Shorter Tomy: If Bush is for it, I’m against it.
By the way, please note that Qwest didn’t allow their customer database to be appropriated by the NSA, despite repeated requests. It is good to know that there is a company out there that still believes in freedom and privacy.
The phone companies keep records, yes. But when law enforcement wants to know what is in those records, they have to obtain a warrant. To obtain the warrant, they must prove to a judge that a warrant is necessary.
This is a good system, designed to protect ordinary citizens from the potential abuse of authority. It’s a system well in line with the founding principles of this nation. And the White House spits on it daily.
Seriously, he should just declare himself King and get it over with. “I demand full and total authority to do whatever I want because it will keep you safe from the terrorists.”
Which is a far and sad cry from “Give me liberty or give me death.”
I’m curious if they need a warrant to identify the owners of the phone numbers.
Again, cons defend any invasion of privacy as long as their Dear Leader says it’s to protect us from terra’.
Whiny. Titty. Babies.
However, now that the government has this database, what is to prevent any branch of the government to use it against ordinary citizens to get them to bend to their will? For example, a Bush opponent who was discovered through phone records to be calling a girlfriend (not their wife)could be blackmailed into keeping quiet.
The terrorists truly won. Congratulations to them. Their attacks convinced Americans to give up their constitutional freedoms just because a RW government said it was necessary.
Truth is, I’m more scared of our goverment than any terrorist with an explosive belt tied around them.
What ever happened to the libertarian wing of the Republican party? At least those people and I had some shared values. This current batch, so willing to give up precious American liberties, is a farce.
And BTW, let’s stop with the rhetorical questions guys. Let’s just see a show of hands, or whatever. How many of you think it’s okay for the US government to keep a permanent record of everyone you call and everyone who calls you? Yea or Nay.
“frameone : Do you think that AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etal. did that long before now ?”
You think that these companies have been giving our phone records to the government to be collected in a permanent database? Are you kidding me?
frame, I think you misunderstood JD’s disingenuous question. He is saying, I think, that since Verizon maintains a billing database that monitors what calls are made, so that they can charge you the proper toll, it’s really no big deal to give this info to the government so they can do with it what they wish.
Whiny. Titty. Babies.
I say, that before the gummint listens in on the next call I make to Golden Imperial for Beef Chow Fun, or the next time I call United Taxi for a cab to the movies, you should kill me!
That’s right!
Give me take out or give me death!
Oh mercy. As if we needed more proof that idiot right is a personality cult, here it is in all it’s glory.
Frank,
“When the Nazis arrested the Communists,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Communist.
When they locked up the Social Democrats,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Social Democrat.
When they arrested the trade unionists,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a trade unionist.
When they arrested the Jews, I said nothing; after all, I was not a Jew.
When they arrested me, there was no longer anyone who could protest.”
-Martin_Niemöller
Now, before you got your panties in a bunch, I’m not saying Bush is a Nazi. I am saying that if we don’t raise a stink over this, we may not have the ability to raise a stink when it gets worse.
Frank_D Says:
May 11th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
I say, that before the gummint listens in on the next call I make to Golden Imperial for Beef Chow Fun, or the next time I call United Taxi for a cab to the movies, you should kill me!
That s right!
Give me take out or give me death!
Frank, is this your birthday and Christmas presents, rolled into one for the next 10 years, to Beans and I?
L B: Get yoir finger off the panic button… I’ve been hearing that Niemoller quote since the first time a cop bopped a Berkeley student over the head in 1965, and no one’s been sent to a Gulag yet.
In fact, at most demonstrations, there are people begging to get arrested, because nothing’s going to happen to them.
Frameone’s and Oliver’s histrionics notwithstanding, the Republic shall stand…
You know why?
Look Frank, all I’m saying is that you’re argument seems to be “Why should I care? I have nothing to hide!” What I’m saying is that when we start letting the government do whatever they want, they soon may determine that in fact you ARE doing something they don’t like.
“But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.”
Frank_D Says:
May 11th, 2006 at 10:02 pm
Now, suddenly, I m going to worry because it s the Bush administration? I don t think so. I m sure everything will be fine.
Gosh, suddenly I feel much better. If Frank says he’s “sure” everything will be fine, then “surely” everything will be fine.
Never mind what my argument “seems to be.” Before I open myself up to more accusations from the trembling frameone, who seems to think that fearing death at the hands of terrorists is for cowards, while fearing that the FBI is going to knock down his door because he called his Aunt Minnie in Akron is realistic, I’ll let it go, OK?
I had a job with the government* where every detail of my personal life was scrutinized, before I worked for them and during. Did it make me paranoid, or frightened of my own government? No. I “survived” Watergate, the Kennedy assassination, Walsh’s investigation of the Reagan administration, and Starr’s investigation of the Clintons, without missing a stride.
Now, suddenly, I’m going to worry because it’s the Bush administration?
I don’t think so.
I was too young for the “McCarthy’s coming!” McCarthy’s coming!” hysteria, and I’m too old (grown up? wise? quien sabe?) to get excited over this.
I’m sure everything will be fine.
* I worked for the IRS, and I’ve got news for you: The government can already do whatever the hell they want.
Oops! I mean Frank.
This is very embarrassing for me because the chances are the NSA is now well aware that I’ve been having phone sex with Ann Coulter.
Where do the conservatarians weigh in on this one? Does this look like government small enough to drown in a bathtub?
He does a wicked imitation of Ann. Gets me every time.
Gee, buma, if you and your fellow lefties weren’t flailing your arms and screaming like passengers bobbing in the water around a capsized ship, you might have read what conservatives have been saying, but the wail of “Ooh! Ooh! Wiretap!” is too loud in your collective ears.
Are you guys all drug dealers, or in the Mafia*, or something?
* Of course, there is no Mafia!
Frank_D Says:
May 11th, 2006 at 9:12 pm
L B: Get yoir finger off the panic button& I ve been hearing that Niemoller quote since the first time a cop bopped a Berkeley student over the head in 1965, and no one s been sent to a Gulag yet.
I’m guessing that the innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as the Americans, Australians and British, who have been wrongfully Gitmotized would disagree with you, Frank. If they ever get the chance to voice their disagreements, that is…
(: Tom
A) Of course, you can identify those “wrongfully detained innocents*”, and, of course, indicate how self – evident it is that they don’t belong there;
B) You can also, I suppose, make some sort of connection between tossing suspected terrorists in the klink, and analyzing phone activity to detect the presence of terrorist cells.
* BTW, I would venture to say that not a one of them was jailed at Guantanamo for participating in a demonstration, taking out a library book, or telephoning Aunt Fatima in Damascus to wish her a happy birthday.
I would venture to say that not a one of them was jailed at Guantanamo for participating in a demonstration, taking out a library book, or telephoning Aunt Fatima in Damascus to wish her a happy birthday.
So you have the trial transcripts explaining all the evidence supporting the charges?
Wait.
Frank, it’s good to know that if Hillary is president and this kind of data mining occurs, you will be at the forefront of her defense.
No, RR, I just know you don’t. I also know that no — that is, NO – library records have been subpoena’d under the Patriot Act to date.
Also, my super top – secret friends in Wash, D.C. tell me that Sen.Clinton is not scheduled for residency in the White House — ever.