Thats how the Lt. Governor of Maryland and the GOP’s Great Black Hope plans to gin up turnout this fall – bashing gay Americans. He announced that he would be a different kind of Republican, but it’s the same old swill in a slightly darker casing.
>> Then again, maybe Steele ought to go over to Iraq.
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Michael Steele: My Party Hates Mormons
Conservatives: They Hate Gays
“He announced that he would be a different kind of Republican, but it s the same old swill in a slightly darker casing.”
Racist. You’re worse than Ian, the “political teen” — at least his alleged calling you a “big black fatty” in a private e-mail.
J.
FINALLY. Just had to dumb it down enough.
J.
But now no matter how I try creatively spelling, spacing, or re-phrasing things, my comment STILL will not get through. More evidence this site’s owner is a complete and utter idiot.
J.
Hmm… have I been blocked from commenting? I’ve tried five times to say something here, and each time it’s disappeared into the great unknown…
If I have, I take that as a sign of victory.
J.
Could someone explain how Oliver’s penultimate sentence — the one about casings — is NOT racist? It’s certainly more racist than anything he’s quoted from Jerome Corsi, George Allen, or The Political Teen.
J.
Jeebus.
JayID Tea gets confused about how to post so we have to watch this entire stream-of-idiocy-consciousness from him.
Could someone explain how Oliver s penultimate sentence the one about casings is NOT racist?
Really, the burden of proof is yours. If you’re asserting OW’s comment was racist–please explain why.
Jadegold, I’ll rise above the elementary-school playground tactics and actually treat your answer seriously — presuming, of course, Oliver’s filters don’t stifle me yet again.
Oliver has a very, very low threshold for accusing someone of being a racist. I believe that his sentence, “He announced that he would be a different kind of Republican, but it s the same old swill in a slightly darker casing,” is a racist slur against Mr. Steele. It’s an isult (”swill”) with a racial element (”in a slightly darker casing”).
J.
OK, it’s almost as painful to deliberately misspell that stuff as it is to deal with Jade as a reasonable, mature adult human being, but it seems to work.
J.
OK, first two paragraphs made it through, two to go…
J.
Fuck a duck. Oliver’s filters eat ANOTHER comment. I am seriously wondering why I bother, or if I should send him a bill for my wasted time.
J.
I happen to think that is at least as racially-charged as when da politickal teenn called Oliver a “bigg balack phattie” (deliberately misspelled to avoid filtering). If our host is gonna have THAT as a standard for rasism, then I think his own remark qualifies. (More misspelling)
J.
It’s racist to note that Steele’s republicanism is the same Republican b.s. only with a black guy’s skin? Lordy be.
You have WAY too much time on your hands.
And now Oliver is resorting to minstrel show/Stepin Fetchit language. When, oh when will the hate end?
J.
As to the racist shit, Oliver’s calling it like he sees it. Republicans want to suggest it means something to be a Black Conservative because of the historically strong support that blacks have given Democrats. Turns out black conservatives have to kow tow to homophobes just like doughy-ass white conservatives. Fan-fucking-tastic.
Check: “No, Steele is saying that gays should NOT be allowed to marry period.”
Anything to avoid addressing my point, huh, frame? That Oliver is doing exactly the same thing he’s condemned others for, using the big-gun “racist” charge. The only difference is he’s doing it publicly, while when he slams others, he just pronounces them racist and that should be sufficient.
J.
“It s an isult ( swill ) with a racial element ( in a slightly darker casing ).”
Jay, you keep saying that you support gay marriage but you here completely avoiding discussion of Steele’s position that gays should not be allowed to get married. Note that Steele isn’t saying gays should be allowed to get married if they can convince the voters that they should have that right (your stance as I understand it — you know, because asking the courts to defend your rights as an American from discrimination is like Stalinism or something). No, Steele is saying that gays should be allowed to marry period. Aren’t you supposedly opposed to that position?
This is such obvious pandering to a fearful, hate-filled base that it is, indeed, nothing short of SWILL.
“Hmm& have I been blocked from commenting? I ve tried five times to say something here, and each time it s disappeared into the great unknown& ”
God damn you LOVE to play the vicitm Jay. Just love it.
Uh, ya. Sure. Steele’s support of anti-gay legislation is swill, Jay. That’s the point I addressed. That’s the point you completely skipped in your response. When you want to defend Steele’s position on gay marriage let me know.
OH MY GOD MY COMMENT IS AWAITING MODERATION! HELP, HELP I’M BEING REPRESSED BY OLIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And BTW, did you happen to click through to the Independent article on your beloved Iraqi “democracy”? I’m so glad we’ve wasted, fucking wasted, all those lives so that gays could go on being persecuted in Iraq. Can we expect Bush and Rice to stand up and denounce this hate crime? I can’t wait:
“Ali Hili, the co-ordinator of a group of exiled Iraqi gay men who monitor homophobic attacks inside Iraq, said the fatwa had instigated a “witch-hunt of lesbian and gay Iraqis, including violent beatings, kidnappings and assassinations” …
The US State Department has yet to document the surge in its annual human rights reports. Iraq’s neighbours, however, such as Iran, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, are often criticised for their persecution of gays.
Darla Jordan, from the US State Department said: “The US government continues to work closely with our Iraqi partners to ensure the protection of human rights and the safety of all Iraqi citizens.”
Bullshit.
I erased your comments because you had about 15 in a row saying the exact same thing. If you want me to print them all and make you look dumber, I’ll do that in the future. Sheesh.
When I call someone a racist, something I don’t just jump to doing, I back it up. Racism is a clearly demonstrable thing, not something you just have “a feeling” about.
As frameone said – Republicans play up black cons as if they’re something new and dynamic and bold, when in fact there are few and far between and they believe the same old bullshit traditional Republicans do, only in a browner piece of luggage. A lot of white liberals don’t have the lattitude to say this, because they’d be branded as racist. As a black man (for my whole life!) I can call out the hucksters in my own temple.
frame, 1) My comments weren’t “awaiting moderation,” they up and disappeared. Repeatedly.
2) I disagree with Steele’s position on gay marriage, but that’s counterbalanced somewhat by how batshit he drives Oliver. There’s an old saying that you can judge a man by the quality of his enemies. I really don’t know much about him, and have more pressing concerns than to learn more.
3) I disagree with Steele’s position on that legislation, but he’s fighting the fight in the right arena — the legislature. If anything, you ought to SUPPORT his Senate campaign, if gay marriage is your big issue — it’ll get him out of state politics entirely.
4) Amazing — Karl Rove is behind the anti-gay-marriage movement? Damn, when does he find the TIME to do all this?
J.
Again, JayIDTea hasn’t explained why OW’s comment is racist.
All he’s done is repeatedly say he believes it is and that in his opinion it is worse than what other racists have said.
That’s not anything close to an explanation–it’s an expression of faith. No different than one saying he believes the Easter Bunny exists.
Look, it’s pretty easy to defend calling a David Duke or a Trent Lott or a Jesse Helms racist because it can easily be explained; it’s not an opinion.
If you can’t explain why someone is racist–other than your opinion—it’s probably because that person isn’t one.
“I don t have the authority to declare anyone a racist. Oliver doesn t, either, but that doesn t stop him.”
Jesus, Jay, then who does have the authority to declare someone a racist?
“That might be a Javascript issue on my end, though. I repeatedly posted them, paraphrasing, because I wasn t seeing a moderation notice.”
The same thing happened to me yesterday on a thread about global warming but I didn’t immediately go bitching about how I was being oppressed by Oliver.
Oliver, then I have to tell you I think your site has a problem. Normally, I get an “awaiting moderation” notice, and I shrug it off. These didn’t give me a notice. That might be a Javascript issue on my end, though. I repeatedly posted them, paraphrasing, because I wasn’t seeing a moderation notice.
I have no problems causing you headaches and aggravation, but I prefer to do so through words and ideas, not by repeatedly posting the same things over and over and over. For whatever difficulty my cyber-stutters may have caused you, I apologize.
In fact, the more I think about it, it might have been my own browser’s security settings that caused the problem, not your site. I’ve tweaked it, and it ought not happen again.
That being said… yeah, Jade, that was my OPINION. I don’t have the authority to declare anyone a racist. Oliver doesn’t, either, but that doesn’t stop him.
J.
“I disagree with Steele s position on gay marriage, but that s counterbalanced somewhat by how batshit he drives Oliver. ”
So you’d rather sell out your personal beliefs in favor of personal pique. Nice, Jay. And I love the concept of supporting an opponent because he’s at least fighting against me “the right way.” Oh and BTW, if Steele being in the Senate takes him out state politics and state legislatures are the only “correct” way to handle the issue, why is he attending an anti-gay marriage rally during his Senate campaign? Thank you for offering up more proof that this is a cynical political act that amounts to little more than tossing swill to swine.
And who mentioned Karl Rove? It isn’t that tough to understand that the republican leadership has sent out the word that gay marriage is the wedge issue du jour to stir up a reactionary, hateful base (which I guess is the correct way to deny American citizens the right to love who they want). Way to go, Jay.
And as for your problems with posting comments, it’s fascinating that you think you are being “denied your right to speak” here when 11 of the first 14 posts are yours. Classic victimhood.
Frame, from the linked article (you might occasionally want to READ what the alleged topic is):
Also, I never directly accused Oliver. I said they were disappearing, and speculated that I might have been banned — a theory I tested and disproved immediately. My comments have a history of “disappearing” in the past, Frame, so the thought that it might happen again was not too foreign.
Also, the numbers mislead. Four of them were originally a single posting that I tried repeatedly to put up.
Who has the authority to declare someone a racist? Well, Oliver obviously thinks he does — just on the recent memory, he’s hung that label on The Political Teen, George Allen, and Jerome Corsi.
Again, I don’t care about Steele, but it looks like he’s not making the gay marriage thing so much an “issue” issue but a “character” issue. He’s trying to show the sort of person he is to the voters who will decide whether he’s the kind of guy they want to send to DC. Has he said anything about what he’d DO as a Senator about gay marriage? I doubt it.
Again, I think he’s wrong. But he’s entitled to express his opinion, demonstrate his support for causes he believes in, and speak out on any issue he likes. He’ll have to decide on his own whether or not that will help or harm his political career, and weigh that against his beliefs in his principles. In this case, he’s decided that he can accept any political fallout.
And in that, he’s probably right.
I have four Senators I keep a rough eye on — my own (Gregg, whom I have disliked for years, and Sununu, of whom I am suspicious), and Massachusetts’ Kennedy and Kerry, the Klueless Klowns. Beyond that, I have little interest in the Senate.
J.
“My comments have a history of disappearing in the past, Frame, so the thought that it might happen again was not too foreign.”
Sorry that should have read:
“My comments have a history of disappearing in the past, Frame, so the thought that it might happen again was not too foreign.”
What a whiny little bitch.
As for the rest of your comment, who said that Steele didn’t have a right to his opinion or to speak about it? It just so happens that his opions on gay marriage are odious swill but he has a right to them. But that doesn’t preclude criticism of his tactics does it? Or does Oliver not have the right to call a conservative campaign issue “swill.” Pray tell who does have the authority to criticize republicans, Jay?
And I can’t believe you call attending an anti-gay rally a character issue. A character issue? You’re kidding me. He’s pandering plain and simple. You think Steele is going to an anti-gay rally because he feels he can afford to take the political fallout? Really? From a recent story on the race:
“And should Cardin win the Sept. 12 primary and face Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele, the likely GOP nominee, the poll shows him winning with 49 percent to Steele s 35 percent, with 16 percent undecided …
The Gonzales poll also matched Steele against Mfume in the November election. In that head-to-head match, Steele polled slightly better 39 percent but still trailed Mfume s 44 percent, according to the telephone survey of 819 registered Maryland voters taken between April 4 and April 13. The poll has a 3.5 percentage point margin of error.”
http://www.gazette.net/stories/042106/polia%20s193625_31945.shtml
Now I don’t follow Maryland politics closely either but it seems to me that Steele is obviously trying to shore up the hate-filled republican base.
Which brings us to your other comment about Rove: “Amazing Karl Rove is behind the anti-gay-marriage movement? Damn, when does he find the TIME to do all this?” This is just the kind of idiotic comment I would
expect from someone who wants to deflect form the fact that the republican party has made demonizing groups of Americans to scare voters and divide this country a central part of its campaign strategy at every level. To suggest that this is unthinkable because “Karl Rove couldn’t possibly have the time to be engaged in so many cmpaigns” is to be deliberately obtuse and you know it. Or at least you should know it. If you don’t and you actually think Rove would have to run each republican campaign individual, well, then you’re already brain dead.
And Jay, if you’re going to start declaring who DOESN’T have the authority to call someone a racist it behooves you to suggest who you think DOES have the authority to do so. Unless you think no one does which sort of let’s the racists off the hook, now, doesn’t it?
Finally, in parting, Jay offers up his most tried and true defense against any and all actual intelligence and facts: “You know, I really don’t care any way so it doesn’t matter what you say.” Classic.
Frame, you’re missing the point. As I don’t know how anyone could be that dense and still live, I can only assume that you are doing so deliberately. But I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and spell it out.
I have no problem with Oliver calling something “swill.” I think I might have even used that term myself once or twice.
What I am calling him on are the words after swill, namely “in a slightly darker casing.” Oliver is making a point of highlighting Steele’s race in this context. One can also infer, by the choice of “slightly darker,” that Steele isn’t sufficiently “black” enough for Oliver’s tastes — if not in skin color, than in acting in the politically-acceptable manner for a black politician. By Oliver’s rules, blacks are simply not allowed to be conservative. Any who violate that rule are to be called out and destroyed.
Of course, perhaps I’m reading too much into that phrase. After all, that would be giving Oliver credit for being able to wring such nuance and subtlety out of the English language — and he’s never really impressed me as being that good a writer.
J.
I’m in no position to judge someone’s blackness, in fact I’ve had my blackness judged by many for one reason or another. Steele’s race is an issue because its his reason for running. The national GOP wouldn’t put any money into the MD race if Steele was a white guy, but they think that they can trade on his blackness to get a toehold in MD. It’s the same reason he was added to the gubernatorial ticket – the guy’s never held an elective office on his own – and why Ehrlich is fishing for another black face to replace Steele — it’s the only way a Republican can win in Maryland.
“You gotta own a little of the responsibility for that one, Oliver. I mean, you have your picture on the main page, but your icon is of a white guy& ”
Um Jay, you’re going to have to explain this one.
Jay –
Whenever you want to get around to telling us who has the authority to call someone a racist and why it is a sign of character to support people who think gay couples pose a threat to the American family let me know. As to Oliver’s comments on Steele, what else can I tell you, he’s right. The Republicans are obviously trading on Steele’s race to put over the same old crap. It’s as cynical a strategy as it gets.
And Jay, I find it highly hypocritical of you to attack Oliver’s writing skills when you have, in the past, repeatedly championed “lay” intelligence over trained, professional knowledge. Just one more bit of snark that reveals the depth of your personal dishonesty. Oliver is a much needed firebrand on the left who is outstanding at the job. He certainly gets a rise out of you on a regular basis.
“in fact I ve had my blackness judged by many for one reason or another.”
You gotta own a little of the responsibility for that one, Oliver. I mean, you have your picture on the main page, but your icon is of a white guy…
Maybe I oughta choose a picture of Ray Nagin as my icon?
Nah.
J.
So Oliver has to accept responsibility for the fact that some people might think he’s white when his freaking picture is prominently placed on his blog?
And as a guy who currently gets paid professionally write, you don’t even want to go there Jay …
Um… Frame… whenever Oliver posts a comment, he has a picture of Jack Abramoff next to his words. I dunno if you want to call that an icon, an avatar, or a purple kumquat, but there it is.
As far as Oliver’s writing skills… I am a layman on that basis, myself. I had a very, very brief career as a semi-professional writer a long time ago; ever since then, it’s been pretty much recreational. But as someone who does a LOT of writing, his style leaves a bit to be desired.
I don’t quite see your point there, though.
J.
I imagine mistaking Oliver for Jack Abramoff would be typical for guys such as yourself who so frequently open their mouths before doing even the slightest bit of research (or to make sure they’re reading a fucking chart correctly, right Jay?)
OK, frame, let me lend you a crowbar to pry your head out of your ass. The Abramoff reference was intended as a lightening of the mood. A humorous aside. I didn’t think anyone would take it as a serious remark, just a very, very light jibe at Oliver — it was the first thing I noted when Oliver said he’d had his “blackness” questioned. The ironic juxtaposition of that with the Abramoff picture was too much to pass up.
J.
“The ironic juxtaposition of that with the Abramoff picture was too much to pass up.”
Another bullshit dodge from the master coward. Just can’t ever stand by anything you write can you Jay? Tell me how, how many apologies and qualifications do have to post a day?
How many a day, frame? If I don’t hit 47, I consider it a bad day.
Unlike you, I don’t consider these discussions a “blood sport.” The Abramoff reference was intended as almost an olive branch to Oliver (who has not expressed anger over it), a slight teasing instead of the usual sledge-hammering when he does something egregious. My hopes were that it would provoke a brief smile, or even a slight wince, and lighten the mood.
If you consider that sort of thing out of bounds, then tough shit. Last time I checked, one person sets the rules around here, and it ain’t you.
As far as the rest of what you say… unfounded, incorrect, and stupid. The typical frame trifecta. I dismiss your allegations with all the effort you put into making them.
J.
“If you consider that sort of thing out of bounds, then tough shit.”
And you say this after you spent this entire thread lecturing Oliver about what you think is out of bounds. Classic.
You know you still haven’t told us who think has the authority to declare someone a racist and why it’s a sign of character to attack gay Americans as a threat to the family. Anytime, Jay, anytime …
Michael Steele – average white Republican?…
Michael Steele is running for the US Senate in Maryland. He’s Republican. And, he’s black. That’s not a typically good thing to be seeking political office in Maryland. They tend to elect white Democrats historically. However, what ANY candidate of…
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