’)White teens accused of brutal racist attack
Two white teenagers severely beat and sodomized a 16-year-old Hispanic boy who they believed had tried to kiss a 12-year-old white girl at a party, authorities said.
The attackers forced the boy out of the house party, beat him and sodomized him with a metal pipe, shouting epithets “associated with being Hispanic,” said Lt. John Martin with the Harris County Sheriff’s Department.
They then poured bleach over the boy, apparently to destroy DNA evidence and left him for dead, authorities said. He wasn’t discovered until Sunday, a day after the attack.
TomY you are truly sad. Obviously, your first reaction to this horrible act is to get ahead of everyone else and suggest that Republicans would apologize for the perpetrators actions and deny that racism exists. This young man has been through a terrible situation and all you can do is try to tar Republicans with this act of hate. You certainly have shown your true colors and have brought yourself down to the level of the rest of the haters. Hate is hate, does it matter whether it aimed at someone of another color or someone of another sexual persuasion, or even someone of another political party? Peddle your hate elsewhere!
Cue Republicans: “They were just mad because of Affirmative Action! Liberalism and Ted Kennedy are the source of all contemporary racism! Never conservatism! WHAT ABOUT SENATOR BYYYYYYYRD! MY FINGERS ARE SO FAR IN MY EARS, THEY’RE TOUCHING!!!”
Well, I’m glad at any rate that no one is denying that the assault took place.
Regardless, it is hateful and I hope the jerks who (probably ) did it, get plenty of time in the slammer. Would advise progressive to refrain from drawing conclusions beyond the act. That then becomes cheap exploitation.
Dugger
This was no attack, just college pranks. Ask Rush Limbaugh. Oh those silly kids!!
Any idea where they got the idea to sodomize him with an object?
And, framefan, TomY might not be that far off. Anglos and Latinos have coexisted peaceably in Texas for a long time. Mixed marriages are common, unremarkable. So why, now, does a Hispanic kid suddenly become the victim of such a savage attack? Wouldn’t have anything at all to do with all the racist, eliminationist rhetoric of the Right w/r/t immigrants, would it?
Can I prove that? No, and I’m not claiming otherwise. But it IS one thing that has changed in Texas recently when so many other things have not.
But it IS one thing that has changed in Texas recently
Spoken like a true liberal statistician.
In the first place, incidents like this might have occurred, in oh – so – liberal Texas (interracial violence) with nothing more than a mention on the local paper’s “Police Blotter”.
But because of the bogus liberal equation that being opposed to unfettered, illegal immigration equals racism, it’s always good to have a “white guys beat up Hispanic kid” story to somehow fuel the fire.
Let’s see if we can reason this out. Hundreds of thousands of Mexicans, and other Hispanics have been demonstrating for the last few weeks. This has upset Republicans and Republicans only. Texas has never been known for racial conflict. Now there has been an act of “white on person of color” violence.
There you have it — “Wet streets cause rain!”
Oliver, I’m glad you pulled that bigoted anti – Christian post to make way for your post concerning Republican racism.
Hehe.
“Would advise progressive to refrain from drawing conclusions beyond the act.”
Because we certainly wouldn’t want to suggest that there’s any connection between overheated right wing rhetoric about “invasions” and “threats to our culture” and violent acts against immigrants. Of course not. Whoever heard of such a thing? Afterall, everyone knows that paranoid, fearful and hateful speech has absolutely no connection to paranoid, fearful and hateful acts. Why these things just happen out of the blue, in a vacuum, in total isolation from the world. Yup, it just happens for no reason at all …
It is very simple: Any person who attempts in any way to politicize this or blame it on conservative rhetoric is:
A moron
A dick
An idiot
A fool
A person never to be taken seriously
A dolt
A scumbag
A douchebag
A prick
A simpleton
I could go on, but there’s not enough room to write all the names about any piece of sheot who would actually think that such a horrible awful thing would have been brought about by politics.
Assholes.
How about instead of acting like a divider and pin the blame on anyone but the aholes who actually perpetrated these acts, we unite and (pending conviction) throw the book at these bastards?
Plus, me’thinks Jay C doth protest too much.
or blame it on conservative rhetoric
‘Cuz as we’ve all learned from studying history, rhetoric never effects action.
“I could go on ..”
And you probably will because it’s much easier than facing the real world consequences of extreme right wing rhetoric about immigration that mobilizes metaphors of war and pestilence to describe human beings who only want to feed their families.
And you probably will because it s much easier than facing the real world consequences of extreme right wing rhetoric about immigration that mobilizes metaphors of war and pestilence to describe human beings who only want to feed their families.
Yes I could go on because it’s asshats like yourself that look to gain some political mileage out of such a horrible thing. Look at your reaction. Asking who supports hate crime legislation? I don’t think it’s possible to be any more lame.
Unless you can show with verifiable evidence that these two punks did what they did because of a debate about illegal immigration (and you can’t), shut the fuck up with the political nonsense. Cripes.
“we unite and (pending conviction) throw the book at these bastards?”
How hard do you want to throw that book, Save? Do you support hate crime leglisation? Does it matter to you that the hate crime charge only makes a difference if the kid dies? Don’t you think, if the kid lives, the hate crime charge should make a difference? Don’t you think prosectuors should charge the alleged attackers with a hate crime regardless so we can officially call this what it really is? How many of the other conservatives here support hate crime legislation?
From the link:
“Prosecutors are considering whether to attach hate-crime charges, but unless the victim dies, the possible penalty would be the same. If the boy dies and it is ruled a hate crime, the attackers could face the death penalty, authorities said.”
“Yes I could go on because it s asshats like yourself that look to gain some political mileage out of such a horrible thing.”
Now, Jay, you know these kinds of things don’t happen in a vacuum. 17 and 18 year old kids don’t just beat a child to near death while shouting racial epithets at him just because. These kids are no doubt fucked up individuals, but this kind of fucked up is the product of a larger environment, a constant reinforcement that some people, aren’t really people, not like you and me. By confronting that reality we can bring attention to the issue of hate crimes and work to make sure they don’t happen again. See, you guys are all about punish, punish, punish but never a thought to how we can make the world a better place so that shit like this doesn’t happen. So that when 17 or 18 year old boys get angry at another kid they don’t act on blind rage because, well, he’s only a Mexican.
Why do I bring up hate crimes and hate crime legislation? Because as the facts now stand this has all the earmakrs of a hate crime. Can you deal with that Jay? Can you face that? Can you even begin to think about the impications of that? But before I tax your brain too much, just answer the question: Do you support hate crime legislation?
Now, Jay, you know these kinds of things don t happen in a vacuum. 17 and 18 year old kids don t just beat a child to near death while shouting racial epithets at him just because. These kids are no doubt fucked up individuals, but this kind of fucked up is the product of a larger environment, a constant reinforcement that some people, aren t really people, not like you and me.
You’re right. The problem is, you jumped to conclusions assuming that these kids were influenced by conservative rhetoric about illegal immigration. After all, there’s just no way that Democrats and people who vote for Democrats say spic, wetback or any other racial epithets, right? Wrong. And you know it.
Racism is something that is taught. You don’t pick it up from listening to some guy on television railing about illegal immigration. And you do an injustice to this poor kid by automatically looking for a way to pin the blame for this act on conservatism. It’s low and it’s cheap.
And no, I don’t support hate crime legislation. It’s pointless. Assault is assault. Murder is murder. Beating somebody with a baseball bat because they’re black is no more heinous than beating a somebody with a baseball bat because they wear mismatching socks.
“The part about Dad refers back to what I said about such things being TAUGHT.”
And what’s an integral part of teaching? Reinforcement. The kid hears it from the television and sees it amplified by the dad. The dad rests assured that his hatred is okay because the guy on television is giving him a target for it, an excuse, a rational. The kid thinks it’s okay because his Dad thinks it’s okay because the guy on TV gives them all the reassurrance that everyone thinks it’s okay because, hey, it’s on television, and the radio and the internet etc. etc. It’s a reinforcing environment in which hate finds a home and grows …
And I could practically hear the swoosh of your dodge on my last question. Thanks for playing Jay.
And what s an integral part of teaching? Reinforcement. The kid hears it from the television and sees it amplified by the dad. The dad rests assured that his hatred is okay because the guy on television is giving him a target for it, an excuse, a rational. The kid thinks it s okay because his Dad thinks it s okay because the guy on TV gives them all the reassurrance that everyone thinks it s okay because, hey, it s on television, and the radio and the internet etc. etc. It s a reinforcing environment in which hate finds a home and grows &
Again, you’re merely making my point for me. Why? Because in the next house over, another Dad is teaching his kids about the ills of illegal immigration without the racist rhetoric. The teaching is still coming from the parent. Yet, at the beginning of this, you were directly blaming the rhetoric for their actions.
I didn’t dodge your question. It made no sense.
Um, sure. The guy on television says that Mexicans constitute an invading army and Dad says, Fuckin-A Right they are. We ought to do sumptin bout it. And the kid at his feet never puts two and two together &
Uh, no shit Sherlock. The part about Dad refers back to what I said about such things being TAUGHT. Pay attention. Of course, you make the asinine assumption that dear old Dad in this siuation is a conservative or a Republican!
And as to your opinion about hate crimes legislation, nice. Socks. That s the best you could do? I suppose you also agree that we should stop talking about radical jihadist islam whenever we talk about terrorism because you know, bombing someone because they re infidel and bombing someone because they re wearing different socks are the same thing. Right? Right Jay?
Are you stupid on purpose? Or is it accidental? You think the socks analogy was that far off? There was a brutal murder in Deltona, Florida in 2004. 6 people were savagely murdered with baseball bats and knives. Know what for? A freaking Xbox gaming system.
Were there lives worth any more or less than somebody elses?
Jay C is right.
Racism is taught.
It is taught by Repugs to their Repug offspring.
“Racism is something that is taught. You don t pick it up from listening to some guy on television railing about illegal immigration.”
Um, sure. The guy on television says that Mexicans constitute an invading army and Dad says, “Fuckin-A Right they are. We ought to do sumptin bout it.” And the kid at his feet never puts two and two together …
And as to your opinion about hate crimes legislation, nice. Socks. That’s the best you could do? I suppose you also agree that we should stop talking about radical jihadist islam whenever we talk about terrorism because you know, bombing someone because they’re infidel and bombing someone because they’re wearing different socks are the same thing. Right? Right Jay?
“I didn t dodge your question. It made no sense.”
In other words, let’s stop all this criticism of the radical Imams or the moderates who refuse to stand up to them. Afterall, it isn’t overheated rhetoric that creates an environment that makes violence acceptable.
Sigh. You seem to think, again, that the parent is teaching the child in a vacuum without any outside influence or reinforcement. At the same, the guy on television isn’t speaking into a void. He’s there spouting his hate because he knows he has an audience. And the more he can stoke that audience up, the more times he’ll get on television, the more power he’ll get, the more he’ll get what he wants.
When we start hearing people on television, in the mainstream media talk about human beins as “parasites,” or ‘threat to our way life” it is only a matter of time before somethig like this happens. It’s a mutually reinforcing circle, Jay. So I am directly blaming the rhetoric for stoking the hatred and creating the conditions in which this kind of act can occur.
What I find so sad in your whole line of argument is that you would entirely deny that race played any role in this attack, you would dismiss it and erase it even though, as the facts are currently known, the attackers allegedly used racial epithets when they beat this boy nearly to death — alledgedyl for kissing a white girl no less. But that doesn’t matter to you. It means nothing in your book. But when someone in our society shouts racial epithets while beating someone to death or mutilates someone for their socks or their gameboy, that means something. Just like it means something when someone straps a bomb to their chest and kills innocent people in the name of god. But, of course, for you, we aren’t supposed to even consider wonder why or, worse yet, think about what we can do prevent these kinds of events in the future because, hey, they’re all the same. Not a single difference. No reason to talk about racism or radical islam. No reason to even consider these things at all.
Jay, you can’t deal with a problem if you can’t even name it. This looks like a hate crime, Jay. It matters that it may be a hate crime.
What makes everybody assume these kids learned their values from their parents? The parents of the Columbine murderers weren’t Nazis. The parents of John Walker Lindh weren’t Islamist jihadists. 17 and 18 year olds can form their own conclusions about the world.
So where did they learn to hate Hispanics? Maybe it was from their parents after all. Maybe it was because of the illegal immigration issue in the news. Maybe the whole thing had nothing to do with Hispanics per se, and they just had a problem with the victim for personal reasons. Maybe they are part of a white supremacist gang. Who knows? Historically, a larger atmosphere of intolerance tends to manifest itself in these kinds of acts. It’s not out of the question that the two assailants were inspired, in some way, by the overheated anti-Hispanic rhetoric of the Tancredo crowd. But that’s very speculative at this point. To generalize on the basis of this one incident would be a mistake. If we see an epidemic of anti-Hispanic murders then we can say that something in the current cultural climate encourages this sort of behavior. In fact, there has been a major increase in attacks against American Muslims and Arabs over the last four years, and it’s obviously not a coincidence. But I don’t know that the illegal immigration has spawned this sort of anti-Hispanic violence as well. At least not yet.
“In fact, there has been a major increase in attacks against American Muslims and Arabs over the last four years, and it s obviously not a coincidence.”
But, of course, it is Elrod. If someone hit an American Muslim with a bat because they are Muslim, well, we shouldn’t have to think anymore of it than if it was your typical run of the mill assault. Haven’t you been listening to Jay? Crimes don’t happen for reasons and those reasons certainly should never be taken into account when we want figure out how to reduce crime.
Frank_D: [[But because of the bogus liberal equation that being opposed to unfettered, illegal immigration equals racism, it s always good to have a white guys beat up Hispanic kid story to somehow fuel the fire.]]
Uh, Frank, care to rejoin the rest of us here on Earth? I oppose unfettered illegal immigration myself. I speculated on a connection between eliminationist rhetoric and violence, not between immigration and violence. Do try to keep up, please.
Hey, lex, first of all, i f you can’t read well, I’d hold up on the condescension.
That sentence you “cherry – picked” was in reference to the fact that the story was published at all, and the idea was that this not a new, or isolated incident.
Uh*, Lex, do try to keep up, please
* Smarmy remark to follow. Usage primarily confined to liberal commenters.
Wow, thanks for proving my point from yesterday, Ollie!
“Then you draw what conclusions from this?”
That some Blacks can be as brutal and thugish as some Whites.
What I find so sad in your whole line of argument is that you would entirely deny that race played any role in this attack, you would dismiss it and erase it even though, as the facts are currently known, the attackers allegedly used racial epithets when they beat this boy nearly to death alledgedyl for kissing a white girl no less.
Whoa. Don’t go making stuff up now. I said no such thing. I said I don’t support hate crimes legislation. How is that the equivalent of denying race played any role in this attack?
I’m merely saying those factors are irrelevant with regard to the punishment they should receive. What you’re saying is, if a similar crime had been committed by two white kids against another kid that was white, that it isn’t as bad because race wasn’t a factor. I showed you how 6 people were brutally murdered because of a video game system. I didn’t see anybody running to declare there should be some extra punishment based on a ’senseless’ factor, since it it was a senseless crime.
frame or anyone drawing broad conclusions from this incident,
Then you draw what conclusions from this?
http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4819138
Republicans do it again? Do we make a bunch of broad-swath assumptions here or do progressives need Squealer to get his paint brush and head for the ladder – with a slight revison to the hate crime homily.
Dugger, the person who committed the crime, committed the crime. period.
GASP HATE CRIMES COMMITED BY BLACKS ON WHITES MY ENTIRE WORLD IS TOPSY TURVY AAAAAAAAAAAA
I love it when Conservatives try to counter arguments by bringing up an unrelated incident and ordering us to comment on it as if it’ll prove anything. It’s like a natural evolution of the strawman.
Did anyone try to tar Democrats or progressives with the racist brush because of this incident? Of course not. Frame, you are running in soft sand trying to lay this at the feet of people who are horrified at both of these incidents. It shows more about your own bigotry than anything else.
Nimrod
Have you been napping?
One poster here said this.
“Wouldn t have anything at all to do with all the racist, eliminationist rhetoric of the Right w/r/t immigrants, would it?”
Another this
“the real world consequences of extreme right wing rhetoric about immigration that mobilizes metaphors of war and pestilence to describe human beings who only want to feed their families. ”
I mean leftists here are falling all over themselves to blame “the right wing” hate talk, etc for this crime. Yet the Las Vegas crime is evidently totally without any influences at all. It, oh so conveniently for compassionate progressives, just occurred in a g*ddamned vacuum.
Dugger
“What you re saying is, if a similar crime had been committed by two white kids against another kid that was white, that it isn t as bad because race wasn t a factor.”
Um, wrong. I’m saying we should add extra penalties for crimes committed for particularly heinous reasons or purposes. Why? We have different penalties for different pre-dispositions in a number of crimes. The difference between assault and aggravated assault is the intent to cause injury with reckless diregard to human life. A thief can also be charged with racketeering, an extra punishment tacked on to the initial charge if the crime fits a set of criteria. Hate crime legislation follows the same logic because racial motivated violence has an effect far beyond the individual instance. The beating in this case was apparently a beating with a particularly reprhensible purpose: To punish someone because of their race. To ignore this element of the crime is to send the wrong single to those who commit such crimes about their attitudes and behavior. This is to officially erase any acknowledgement that race was a factor in the crime. And so, while they are punished for their actions, the MOTIVATING FACOTR, behind the action, racial hatred, goes unacknowledged and unpunished. It’s eaxactly like ignoring the jihadist hate speak behind suicide bombings in the Middle East.
And as to Dugger’s idiotic post, yes, if the attacks were racially motivated they should be charged with hate crimes and I would point the finger at the destructive culture of gang life and rhetoric. You have to be a complete fucking idiot to write something like this: “Yet the Las Vegas crime is evidently totally without any influences at all.” A total fucking idiot.
“I didn t see anybody running to declare there should be some extra punishment based on a senseless factor, since it it was a senseless crime.”
I wouldn’t be so sure about that:
“[Bill Belanger, Erin's father] did not attend jury selection, but said he will attend the trial.
”I’ve always been an advocate of the death penalty. The viciousness, the brutality, these guys ought to be the poster children for the death penalty,” he said.”
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/04/14/xbox_trial_will_be_moved_in_florida/
I would say this guy is definitely taking the senseless nature of the crime into account when arguing that these guys should get the death penalty. I will also add that the death penalty is never the mandatory punishment for any crime in any state (making the death penalty mandatory is, indeed, unconstitutional). The death penalty is always an optional punishment open to jurors depending on the aggravating circumstances of the crime according to urisdiction.
Loui