idiot

Well, I must be…because now I’m really confused. First you claim “secret prisons would be a violation of the EUs treaty obligations” but when I offer the point that the prisons may not be in the EU you argue that legalisms don’t matter because we should be concerned with morality. Then you’re telling me that McCarthy (or whoever leaked) couldn’t go to Congressional Democrats as a whistleblower and was forced to break the law by going to the press because the Democrats are helpless no matter how hard they try.
No wonder those on the left are so angry.

um … the legal question involving the EU and where the prisons were supposedly located are a separate issue from our own country’s stated claims to respecting human rights and due process. You know, that whole freedom and democracy thing. But hey, if you don’t really give a shit about the ideals this country is supposed to stand for when some people suddenly find them “inconvenient” fine. The second point, as noted above, is that it isn’t just a matter of prisons. Secret rendition flights are also inviolation of the EU treaty obligations and there is evidence that they took place all over Europe.

As to your other point, ya, its totally sad that people who want to stand up for what’s right in this country can’t turn to congress for the oversight required. But it ain’t for Demsn alck of trying:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/17/AR2005121700992.html

Idiot.

Congratulations. You ve once again lowered the bar for ethical behavior in the field of foreign of policy.

Then why did YOU bring up the legal point in the first place? Either it’s relevent or it’s not. If it is (since you brought it up), then if Romania is not part of the EU, no treaties are broken according to your criteria. If the EU treaty obligations are not important to the argument, then don’t bring them up. I made a logical argument and you decided to back away from your point. Congratulations back at ya.

because the Republican-dominated Congress has done such a bang up job when it comes to its oversight responsbilities

Wow. I didn’t realize the Democrats were so helpless when it comes to human rights. Thanks for the lesson.

Ya, right because the Republican-dominated Congress has done such a bang up job when it comes to its oversight responsbilities. And as to this: “Maybe the selected countries are not yet in the EU?” Congratulations. You’ve once again lowered the bar for ethical behavior in the field of foreign of policy. Yups, we’re all for liberty, human rights and spreading freedom around the world unless of course we aren’t obligated to by international law. Fan-fucking-tastic.

McCarthy would be a classic whistleblower

Nope. She should’ve gone to the proper Congressional oversight committee. Or don’t you trust any Democrats in Congress to protect human rights when they learn about violations?

Either way you cut it secret prisons would be a violation of the EUs treaty obligations

Maybe the selected countries are not yet in the EU?

Either way you cut it secret prisons would be a violation of the EUs treaty obligations:

“Clandestine detention centres, secret flights via or from Europe to countries where suspects could face torture, or extraordinary renditions would all breach the continent’s human rights treaties.”

Not to mention the USs supposed commitment to human rights and due process. McCarthy would be a classic whistleblower who sought to reveal illegal activity by a government agency. But then again, she says she never even knew about the prisons and was not in a position to know about the prisons. The story her lawyer tells is that she fudged her relationship with Priest and another reporter during a polygraph test and so was let go for having an “unauthorized relationship” with a reporter. What’s so ironic about this whole story is that the source for the information that McCarthy was fired for leaking information about prisons was itself an anonymous leak. From Newsweek:

“The sources spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the firing.”

So based on the information provided by an unauthorized leaker and without any other actual facts, the right wing has branded McCarthy a traitor and begun constructing a vast liberal conspiracy to bring down America from within. The whole thing stinks to high heaven. But does anyone even bother to ask if Porter Goss, a lifelong republican, has a partisan agenda in leaking false information about McCarthy as a warning to other CIA officers? Nope.

Indictments are a dime a dozen in washington….it is the CONVICTION that is always problematic.

I would agree with this: if it turns out that there is credible evidence that she knowingly leaked classified information or otherwise betrayed her oath, she should be prosecuted. A jury can decide whether she is guilty and, if so, whether she had compelling reasons for circumventing the established whistle-blowing channels.

I would simply observe that you righties established the standard by which some poeple are calling this into question: by insisting that Libby’s (and possibly Rove’s) leaking didn’t matter if a) some people on the outside already knew the classified information, b) the purpose of the leak was to discredit someone who – supposedly – deserved to be discredited (Wilson), and c) if no obvious harm came from the leak.

Leaking classified information is a crime. It may be justified or mitigated in certain circumstances — that’s what we have judges and juries to decide — but t’s still a crime, and those of you desperate to absolve Libby and Rove are responsible for blurring that simple fact.

McCarthy was fired for leaking  fake information?

I don’t think the information was fake. I think the prisons are real. However, if they are fake, she should still be convicted of leaking classified information (if she leaked). Would you try to argue that someone caught soliciting a police officer pretending to be a 14 year old on the internet shouldn’t be prosecuted because the child was fake? Yet you claim you scored a “gotcha” by throwing out:

Um, does this mean that McCarthy was fired for  leaking information about prisons that never existed?

As far as McCarthy being guilty…I have no idea. She must have lied about something in her polygraph to be fired. Why doesn’t her friend, Dana Priest, simply say that McCarthy was not her source?
BTW, does everyone remember Richard Clark’s claim in his book about extraordinary rendition and Al Gore? Gore for president! Liberals want to continue torturing prisoners overseas!

I seem to recall similar statements from right-wing trolls just before Scooter was indicted. Your powers of prognostication aren’t very impressive, DrP.

Tell you what, I’ll even let you see some of my hand: I’ll bet there are several indictments coming down–including Karl’s.

We have been hearing about the Rove “perp walk” and “frog-march” for years now.

Eventually you will all be vindicated and Rove WILL leave the WH, then you can all slap yourselves on the back and crow about how smart you are!

Try this, tell everyone the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning!

He’s singing to the GJ in hopes of a plea bargain.

Too fucking funny. Would someone please tell Rush Limbuagh that McCarthy was caught peddling “fictional” intelligence in a sting operation?:

“El Rushbo”:

“Here again, this is the war on terror. This is black prisons where we’re attempting to learn information from Al-Qaeda. I’m telling you, folks. I don’t care who you listen to on the left, be it the drive-by media or politicians. It’s scary. It’s frightening. This is why they cannot be trusted with this nation’s national security or defense. They are doing everything they can to sabotage the defeat of this particular enemy. They are invested in the defeat of this country. Make no mistake that’s what this is about. They’re not worried about America’s image. They’re not worried about all this torture and prisons. They’re not worried about this at all. This is simply about getting their power back, and they’ll destroy and kill whoever they have to or get killed whoever they have to in order to do it. They will engage in treasonous activity, and they’ll circle the wagons, and they’ll call themselves great heroines, great heroes, great patriots, whistleblowers, and what have you. This is patently obvious where the battle lines are drawn here and try as hard as they might to identify with most Americans on this, the Democrats and the drive-by media are identifying themselves as people who cannot be trusted to secure victory on the part of the United States in the war on terror against Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and other related terrorist groups.”

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_042406/content/stop_the_tape.guest.html

I’ve got a comment awaiting moderation but in the meantime, the EU has claimed that its investigation turned up no evidence of secret prisons in Europe but the investigation then shifted from secret prisons to secret flights from Europe to countries that do allow torture, which would be a violation of EU laws. I believe the official report will be released this week.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=01341a04-7c4b-4672-81d1-068f17ccaa95&k=18336

Still, McCarthy says she never leaked any information about illegal prisons while the right wing nuts believe she was fired for exposing VITAL INTELLIGENCE. AGHHHHH!

McCarthy was fired for leaking “fake” information? Come on. The whole thing wreaks of scapegoating, red meat for Bush zombies.

Sorry Quaker, but the burden of proof is on the Puliter Prize winner. You don t report something and say  Hey, you can t totally disprove it& Vindication!!!

You’re confused.

The Pulitzer Prize winner has presented the facts and stands by the story.

YOU, on the other hand, asserted that “according to the EU, they never existed” when that’s NOT what the EU investigation says or has shown.

You’re MSU.

Peedro, is as usual, just jabbering nonsense.