Leaking in order to attack someone who makes the president look badly politically?
Give that man a promotion!
Leaking in order to reveal possibile immorality in order to restore common sense to America?
Do we hang her or shoot her in the face?
The bold new reality ain’t so hot.
if the president releases it, its not a leak
If a low level, clinton appointed,democratic activist cia analyst releases it in spite of her promise not to release information….Leak, punishable by law.
Remember Scooter?
Lefties, be careful. This is what happens when you grab a tiger by the tail.
You reap what you sow…..
Look at Chalabi, passes our intel to the Iranians he now sits in his web at the oil ministry probably skimming hundreds of millions. Tough call there.
Hmm…
1) Presidential administration releases information a week ahead of schedule to disprove the lies of Joseph Wilson, who tells a far different story in public than he told to the government officials he was to report to about his “investigation.”
2) Low-level, unelected bureaucrat violates both signed oaths and federal laws by revealing classified information to a reporter — information that just might have been bogus, concocted as a trap to catch leakers.
Yeah, I see just how one could confuse the two…
J.
Talk about a ‘new reality”. Libby has not even been charged with leaking. I guess if you make up enough stuff, you can come up with a pretty strong case.
Dugger
Blah Blah Blah.
Fact: The Bush administration leaked information that exposed an unknown number of CIA covert assets for low political reasons.
Dugger, stop being a dumbass. Valerie Plame was covert. Her front company was a secret CIA front. Other covert agents used that company as a front. The Bush administration exposed Plame, her front company, and any other covert asset that used that front company. You just can’t get around that no matter how many times you spout that “no one was charged with a crime” crap.
Let’s see reasons to leak:
Short Term Partisan Political revenge
or
to reveal potential serious ongoing wrong-doing by our Government.
Hmmmm… to you righties it seems to be Politics is good, torture is good, national security is bad, human rights are bad.
if the president releases it, its not a leak
Maybe not, but it is slimy and contemptible.
disprove the lies of Joseph Wilson
To paraphrase Dugger, not one of Wilson’s “lies” has ever been proven. Not one.
unelected bureaucrat violates both signed oaths and federal laws by revealing classified information to a reporter
And when were scooter and turdblossom ever elected? Oh, and to paraphrase what all you wingbots were saying about the Plame leak: what actual harm has been caused by this leak? Please provide irrefutable evidence of actual harm.
This is what I love about Oliver: he has a knack for making hackmeisters like pedro, JayTea and Dugger come out spewing lies and smear. Like trained monkeys.
piddgy widdgy…
Why wasn’t scooter charged with a crmie relating to the release of Plames name and the “many” covert assets then?
enquiring minds want to know….
pedro: Scooter isn’t under indictment for leaking, he’s under indictment for lying about his leaking under oath.
Chrisrtopher Hitchens… as objective and unbiased a truth seeker as one could hope to find.
sorry what lies did I spew?
I am aware what scooter was indicted for ….that is my point. WHY wasn’t he indicted for busting the cover of the soccer mom? Because she wasn’t covert for one thing.
As far as Wilson’s lies were concerned, check the 9/11 commissions report as well as the recent Slate article by Hitchens for the run down on that piece of work.
Hitchens, in addition to being a self-parodying clown on this issue, produces no proof whatsoever that Wilson lied. If you think he did maybe you can cite the sentence.
While you’re poring over documents, maybe you could show me where Fitzgerald says that Plame wasn’t covert.
After you fail doing that maybe you could tell me how Wilson’s alleged lying would excuse the leaking of a covert agent’s identity for partisan political purposes.
What you said in your first note wasn’t really a lie, pedro, it was a smear.
If you believe Mr. Fitzgerald (and he’s the “decider” on this one), it’s because the relevant law requires proving intent and he didn’t think he could do that. It’s not because there weren’t any secrets revealed.
Again DrDOper, FACT: Valerie Plame was covert. The CIA says so, she was trained to be deep undercover, she acted in that capacity until Bush & Co. blew her cover and her CIA front company. The CIA asked for the investigation for that reason, her identity as a CIA employee was secret. No one disputes that except for right wing conspiracy nutcases and paid mouthpieces…oh, I see.
What did the prosecutor say about Libby’s indictment? “Valerie Wilson was employed by the CIA, and her employment status was classified. Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson s affiliation with the CIA was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community. ”
Here is an explanation of what Valerie Plame’s covert status meant by one of her classmates.
Well, it’s Groundhog Day… again…
Now here’s some blatant trolling. Yet another Plame thread with the same tired bs. C’mon people don’t feed the animals.
Why wasn t scooter charged with a crmie relating to the release of Plames name and the many covert assets then?
Because if the object is to put a criminal in jail, you use the charge that is easiest to prove, which was the open and shut case that he lied under oath, thereby obstructing justice by obscuring the criminal acts that you rightly observe have taken place. As far as I recall, the charge of lying under oath was used to impeach a president, so it must be pretty serious.
Do you have any problem with the fact that the brutal killer Al Capone was convicted of tax evasion, and skated on the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre?
mitter,
You are losing this one. Whatevre opinion you want ot have – fine. ANybody can have an opinion about anything. Libby was not charged with the crime of leaking for a reason – a good reason. Coming back now and wringing your handss and making up a fake history whrein progressives ‘really’ know he leaked is nonsense.
Hey, OW botched this one. . Something we all do – from time to time.
Dugger
The NYT seems to think it has caused some harm:
So she drove to Langley every single work day for years. The CIA sure knows how to keep secrets! Actually, her status at the CIA was classified…not her employment.
One:
Many European nations were outraged…
Oh, so now we’re supposed to care what other countries think of us!
Wilson had to admit he had misspoken.
So that’s your standard of proof? If so you’ll certainly agree with me when I say that George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Condi Rice and Colin Powell are all pathetic liars.
Libby was not charged with the crime of leaking for a reason – a good reason
Yes, for the reason that has been explained to you a million times and which you dishonestly ignore. There’s no rational doubt that Libby leaked and lied about leaking, and that he did so for slimy partisan political purposes with the blessing of his superiors.
C mon people don t feed the trolls.
But it’s so much fun to watch them squirm when you pull their legs off.
I’m sorry. Didn’t everyone know these sites were out there? So outing
their existence is not a crime, is it? Were there are NOC’s outed?
It is telling to hear the knee jerk lynch mob response of the right in
Mary’s case.
Simple Dugger, you already lost. As I have stated, FACT: FACT: Valerie Plame was covert. The CIA says so, she was trained to be deep undercover, she acted in that capacity until the Bush administration blew her cover and her CIA front company. That is a fact not an opinion. See, someone who had access to the information carelessly or maliciously blew her cover and then probably tried to cover it up. Who was involved and all the particulars we talk about may be different degrees of opinion and speculation but the core FACT remains, someone or someones in the Bush Administration leaked the identity of a CIA covert asset to the press.
When the bank is robbed, even if no one is charged, the money is still gone.
Oliver, the first line of this post makes no sense to me; “badly politically”.
Thanks for applying the smack-downs JWG, I am starting to get tired of reposting all the same facts again and again for these leftists.
Too bad they don’t use a secret tunnel entrance like Get Smart or Batman
You wanted a lie. There it was. Wilson claimed he knew about the forged documents, but that was impossible at the time. Simple. He lied to the media and got caught. Now you try to say, “But look over there!” as a defense?
Yes.
Thanks for keeping DrDoper delusional JWG. Incidently, you know the government monitors the internet right? I am sure they are wondering why you have been marking the comings and goings of CIA employees to CIA headquarters over the last several years.
unbelievably detailed rundown on how convoluted this issue really is…
http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=1551
All the usual suspects surrounding ol’e mary: Wilson-Plame, Sandy Berger, Beers.
Funny, all this stuff starts to make better sense now….
I’ll see those those aces and raise -
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/04/treason-by-association.html
Yes, it’s all so clear now.
Here are the simple facts….
No true NOC operative goes to work at Langley everyday.
When Novak called the CIA to confirm she worked there, they did confirm it, and no one suggested that he not publish the information! No threat of lawsuit, no high level phone call attempting to quash the story…nada
Wilson publishes an incindiary op-ed in a major paper . Not really all the covert.
Plame’s cover had been blown within the intelligence community almost a decade early, by both a russian agent, and sloppy work by the CIA itself sending documents to cuba. That was why she no longer was working overseas as a NOC
Her CIA “front company” was an extremely exposed front, simply to avoid idle curiousity, and it’s cover could be “blown” with just a few phone calls.
Check this article for how easy those fronts are to blow:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-060311ciamain-story,1,123362.story
Finally, the vast majority of people working at CIA are “covert” in that they don’t talk about where they go everyday, but have some sort of “government job”.
So piddgy widdgy, please stop with the incessant racket about things you know nothing about.
JWG, simple, prove Valerie Plame was nothing but a desk jockey at CIA headquarters whose covert status was not necessary to carry out her work prior to exposure. This means that she didn’t have confidential contacts and sources that would be jeopardized if her CIA invoolvement were known. Further, her CIA front company was blown, now extend that proof to show that revelation did not compromise other operatives that shared that cover company.
I doubt you can, the CIA asked for the investigation because one of their agents was exposed.
I doubt you can, the CIA asked for the investigation because one of their agents was exposed.
Please. The CIA forwarded this case to the Justice Department as a formality. There are dozens of these requests forwarded each year. This one was no different.
The fact of the matter is, Fitzgerald knows who leaked the information and unlike what Quaker says about intent (which is not true), the reason why nobody has been prosecuted is because no laws were broken. That’s why all he’s left with is a very weak perjury case against Scooter Libby. Yet you people are going to continue to act like trained monkeys with the cymbals, continually repeating the same crap over and over and over again.
You wanted a lie. There it was.
So every misstatement is a lie? Quick tell Dugger! If you guys admit Bush is a liar I’ll admit Wilson is a liar.
And I’m the one saying “look the other way”? This whole “Wilson lied” thing is a great stinking republican rotten red herring. Wilson could lie like a rug all day long and it wouldn’t make the leaking of classified information okay.
Please. The CIA forwarded this case to the Justice Department as a formality. There are dozens of these requests forwarded each year. This one was no different.
Pleasure yourself, Jay. The difference is that this one, on investigation, was found to have some substance.
the reason why nobody has been prosecuted is because no laws were broken.
The stress of watching the trainwreck that the Bush administration has become has caused many republicans to mistake wishful thinking with fact. Can you tell me where in Fitzgerald’s report it says that no laws were broken?
And let me ask you this, Jay: if libby did nothing wrong why would he perjure himself about it before the grand jury?
Yet you people are going to continue to act like trained monkeys with the cymbals, continually repeating the same crap over and over and over again.
Tell you what: you stop spewing the same lies and we’ll stop posting the same rebuttals.
Hey, here’s an idea for you all: why not try smearing Fitzgerald . You haven’t pulled that for a while. I’m sure he has an aunt who donated something to Adlai Stevenson. Maybe pedro could find you a website with all the gory details.
Claiming you saw a document and knew it was a forgery when you never saw it is not a simple misstatement.
But forgetting exactly what you said to one of the dozens of reporters you talk to everyday, a year or two previously is CLEARLY a misstatement….and that is what Scooter is being charged with….
[...] ght . Ms. McCarthy was motivated primarily (or solely) by conscience. See, for example, Oliver Willis s brief post on the subject Leaking in order to att [...]
or the lie might be that his wife didn’t get him the job…
Mitter, Iw as going to argue it wasn’t a fact but I was stunned by your double caps. Curses!
By the way, bunches of CIA folks are covert. Does that mean Libby goes to jail multiple times or does there have to be a crime committed? I mean is the equation: covert Cia agents exist = Republicans go to jail?
So you know something Fitzgerald doesn’t? or you know he’s making a mistake?
Dugger, l’Affaire Plame was all about Bush hate
“Claiming you saw a document and knew it was a forgery when you never saw it is not is not a simple mistatement”.
Was that the reason the White House authorized the leak of selected intel (i.e., only those parts favorable to its case for war)? Was that the “lie” they needed to counter? Perhaps more relevant would be a “lie” about the Niger incident that Wilson was trying to spread and what truthful information did the White House release to counter it. Haven’t seen that addressed by anyone on the right yet.
Have you even read the unclassified version of the NIE? It contains the uncertainties.
Here is what Wilson told the WaPo from June 12, 2003:
In reality, Wilson had no direct knowledge concerning the validity of the forged documents.
The NIE reported that Wilson’s trip supported the CIA’s belief that Iraq was interested in uranium from Niger. Wilson had not reported on the forged documents.
On June 13, 2003, Kristof wrote about his interview with Wilson:
Wilson said in a speech on the next day to the Education for Peace in Iraq Center – June 14, 2003:
Wilson was telling the public all sorts of purposeful distortions about his trip to Niger…all while he was an advisor (unkown to the public) to the Kerry campaign.
JWG – More misdirection on your part unfortunately. My query – what about the Niger incident i.e., that Iraq was seeking yellowcake, which was used as one of the push points to get us involved in the war, was Wilson lying about or turned out to be wrong. Also, what “truthful” information about the Niger incident (which was the reason for Wilson’s involvement in the first place) did the White House reveal to show that Wilson, among others, was lying or mistaken about the fact that Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake?
Huh? You asked, “Perhaps more relevant would be a ‘lie’ about the Niger incident that Wilson was trying to spread.” I gave you two. Now you’ve given a more specific question: What did Wilson say about Iraq seeking yellowcake? He claimed in his op-ed:
and
Well, great. The issue was whether Iraq was interested in buying yellowcake…not just if they had managed to buy some. Wilson confirmed that an Iraqi envoy traveled to Niger, but the Nigerians claim to have refused to discuss yellowcake. Wilson’s trip did not “debunk” the claim that Iraq was seeking to purchase yellowcake. According to the NIE, the CIA used Wilson’s report to bolster their views about Iraqi interests. Yet, I wouldn’t call Wilson’s comments about the purchase of yellowcake a lie. He just offered his small piece of a bigger puzzle.
Dugger, l Affaire Plame was all about Bush hate
Sums it up — Just blame everybody but Bush. None of this has anything to do with his policies or his methods. Bush is not to blame for anything, every problem he is encountering in his house of cards is due to somebody else not liking him enough.
buma,
“Sums it up Just blame everybody but Bush’
Nahhh. Better idea. How about blaming nobody because there was no crime re leaking Plame’s name.
Dugger
Dukker, why do you think that exposing covert CIA operatives is a good thing?
So once again, fact: Valerie Plame was covert. The CIA says so, she was trained to be deep undercover, her CIA identity was considered a national secret until Bush & Co. blew her cover and her CIA front company.
Are you saying it wasn’t someone in the Bush White House that leaked? Morally and ethically it was wrong. It was criminal, unless a technical loophole can be exploited. It damages national security. See the last point: damages national security.
Another thing, has the White House come out and admitted that Bush authorized the declassification of a covert CIA operative’s identity? I don’t think so.
Another thing, it sure is strange that Bush somehow declassifies information, but only to select individuals his office chooses so they can pass that information along without attribution.
Dukker, anyway you slice it, it comes up Bush Administration is bad for National Security.
JWG – I apologize if you misunderstood, but I thought it was pretty clear that what I thought was relevant wasn’t the tangential information that Wilson provided about his trip (who cares about that really, except those trying to deflect and smear), but rather the conclusions he drew, i.e., Iraq didn’t attempt to purchase yellowcake. In that vein, your statement that Iraq was “interested” in buying yellowcake is really another deflection. What Wilson wrote (and what you quoted, at least in part) showed that Iraq had no means or way to purchase yellowcake even assuming it had such an interest. I may have an interest in purchasing a new Ferrari for $50, but that interest is pretty irrelevant unless I have some way of consumating such a deal. Is there any evidence that Iraq could have consumated such a deal with Niger assuming it had the interest and assuming what Wilson said about yellowcake sales were true? That would be information I would suspect the White House to release under the circumstances to counter Wilson’s article, but it apparently did not.
Be that as it may, neither you nor anyone else has even attempted to answer the second part of my question – what truthful information did the White House release to counter Wilson’s conclusions? All I have heard are personal attacks on he and his wife which do not address his conclusions. That is what’s important, not all the personal stuff about Wilson.
mitter,
Come now. I neither acknowledged Val was covert nor that exposing covert agents was good thing.
Furthermore, do you want to just put Republicans in jail because you don’t like them or could we have a crime here. Is that what’s called progressive justice?
Dugger, I guess its the thought that counts and progressives can read minds as we have learned re Bush hate
Dugger, can you’document’ that Plame was not covert?
buma,
Don’t need to. There has been no crime cited in regard to her covert or non-covert status. No crime at all. I doubt anybody here could really do that anyway. the CIA would not broadcast the clear cut details of her status and changes thereto. Now would they.
buma, Are you just sniping or are you trying to talk grown-uo now. If so, welcome aboard. Its much harder than hit and run piss-antry.
Dugger
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