Comments on: Yes, They Are That Crazy http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/ Like Kryptonite To Stupid Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:04:12 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Frank_D http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30694 Frank_D Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:04:19 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30694 Correction, please: The "no - fly zone" came about, not as the result of a UN resolution, but from "the inconclusive and vague cease-fire agreement ending the Gulf War of 1990-1991" <a href="http://www.historyguy.com/no-fly_zone_war.html" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.historyguy.com/no-fly_zone_war.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.historyguy.com/no-fly_zone_war.html</a></a> Correction, please: The “no – fly zone” came about, not as the result of a UN resolution, but from “the inconclusive and vague cease-fire agreement ending the Gulf War of 1990-1991″
http://www.historyguy.com/no-fly_zone_war.html

]]> By: midderpidge http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30693 midderpidge Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:04:01 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30693 Yeah. remember one day Bush changed from "Saddam must come clean to avoid a war" to "Saddam must leave Iraq in order to avoid a war". Yeah. remember one day Bush changed from “Saddam must come clean to avoid a war” to “Saddam must leave Iraq in order to avoid a war”.

]]> By: buma http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30692 buma Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:04:31 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30692 UNSCR 1441 - November 8, 2002 Called for the immediate and complete disarmament of Iraq and its prohibited weapons. -- Was Saddam found to have prohibited weapons after Nov 2002? Nope. Iraq must provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA full access to Iraqi facilities, individuals, means of transportation, and documents. -- Thanks to Bush's sabre-rattling, Saddam did grant access to anywhere the inspectors chose to look, at least until Bush decided to invade anyway. UNSCR 1441 – November 8, 2002

Called for the immediate and complete disarmament of Iraq and its prohibited weapons. — Was Saddam found to have prohibited weapons after Nov 2002? Nope.

Iraq must provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA full access to Iraqi facilities, individuals, means of transportation, and documents. — Thanks to Bush’s sabre-rattling, Saddam did grant access to anywhere the inspectors chose to look, at least until Bush decided to invade anyway.

]]> By: Bill L. http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30691 Bill L. Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:04:21 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30691 <a href="http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/01fs/14906.htm" rel="nofollow">Okay, here's a link </a>to all the U.N. resolutions Saddam was believed or known to have violated. Not one establishes a no-fly zone. Those zones were established by the U.S., Britain, and France initially, but France later withdrew its support. Essentially, <a href="http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/Iraq/Bombing.asp" rel="nofollow">the U.S. has been bombing Iraq at will for the last 12 years.</a> Okay, here’s a link to all the U.N. resolutions Saddam was believed or known to have violated.

Not one establishes a no-fly zone. Those zones were established by the U.S., Britain, and France initially, but France later withdrew its support.

Essentially, the U.S. has been bombing Iraq at will for the last 12 years.

]]> By: drpedro http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30690 drpedro Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:04:27 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30690 uh, right. Read UN security council resolutions 678.687,688 yourself. uh, right. Read UN security council resolutions 678.687,688 yourself.

]]> By: Bill L. http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30689 Bill L. Wed, 19 Apr 2006 03:04:48 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30689 Normally I just ignore Pedro's rants (at least Frank seems to care enough to link to something on occasion, no matter how tenuous the connection to the discussion), but I imagine a number of people on the left also operate under the delusion that the no-fly zones are legal and supported by U.n. resolution. Short version, <a href="http://www.slate.com/?id=2074302" rel="nofollow">They're not.</a> Normally I just ignore Pedro’s rants (at least Frank seems to care enough to link to something on occasion, no matter how tenuous the connection to the discussion), but I imagine a number of people on the left also operate under the delusion that the no-fly zones are legal and supported by U.n. resolution.

Short version, They’re not.

]]> By: Bill L. http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30688 Bill L. Wed, 19 Apr 2006 03:04:14 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30688 <a href="http://www.fff.org/comment/com0211h.asp" rel="nofollow">Even more detail</a>, if you need it. Even more detail, if you need it.

]]> By: Frank_D http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30687 Frank_D Wed, 19 Apr 2006 01:04:48 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30687 Anything that helps the average American learn geography, I favor. We could clean up Durfan, or the DRC Anything that helps the average American learn geography, I favor.

We could clean up Durfan, or the DRC

]]> By: duros62 http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30686 duros62 Tue, 18 Apr 2006 23:04:11 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30686 <i>How would you feel about invading Equitorial Guinea, Pedro? </i> <b>BRING 'EM ON!!</b> How would you feel about invading Equitorial Guinea, Pedro?

BRING ‘EM ON!!

]]> By: TomY http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30685 TomY Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:04:31 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30685 How would you feel about invading Equitorial Guinea, Pedro? <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/17/AR2006041701368.html" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/17/AR2006041701368.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/17/AR2006041701368.html</a></a> How would you feel about invading Equitorial Guinea, Pedro?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/17/AR2006041701368.html

]]> By: TomY http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30684 TomY Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:04:48 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30684 But there was no peril, so logically it would be impossible for it to draw closer. I think the best analogy would be perhaps with the Burma of today: belligerent human rights abusers, certainly, but not threatening to us and not worth invading. But there was no peril, so logically it would be impossible for it to draw closer. I think the best analogy would be perhaps with the Burma of today: belligerent human rights abusers, certainly, but not threatening to us and not worth invading.

]]> By: drpedro http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30683 drpedro Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:04:51 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30683 Mikmik....just so you can stop hyperventilating about what was said...here is the SOTUS 2002, emphasis mine.... <i>"States like these (Iraq), and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By <b>seeking</b> weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger. They could provide these arms to terrorists, giving them the means to match their hatred....... We'll be deliberate, yet time is not on our side. I will not wait on events, while dangers gather. <b>I will not stand by, as peril draws closer and closer. </b> The United States of America will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons. "</i> Not that this will help your BDS, but I think the historical record should be straight. Mikmik….just so you can stop hyperventilating about what was said…here is the SOTUS 2002, emphasis mine….

“States like these (Iraq), and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger. They could provide these arms to terrorists, giving them the means to match their hatred…….
We’ll be deliberate, yet time is not on our side. I will not wait on events, while dangers gather. I will not stand by, as peril draws closer and closer. The United States of America will not permit the world’s most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world’s most destructive weapons. “

Not that this will help your BDS, but I think the historical record should be straight.

]]> By: duros62 http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30682 duros62 Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:04:39 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30682 The Spanish American War is probably a better analogy, as is the Gulf of Tonkin incident, as the events that started them never happened. The Spanish American War is probably a better analogy, as is the Gulf of Tonkin incident, as the events that started them never happened.

]]> By: midderpidge http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30681 midderpidge Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:04:35 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30681 I'm sorry DrDoper, it's not my favorite analogy either, but you righties keep comparing Iraq to the third reich (note strict qualification). It kind of forces the analogies into ones you might be able to understand. Would a comparison to the Spanish American war fit better for you, but instead of yellow journalism pushing the war we have Yellow Propaganda from a Yellow Administration. I’m sorry DrDoper, it’s not my favorite analogy either, but you righties keep comparing Iraq to the third reich (note strict qualification). It kind of forces the analogies into ones you might be able to understand. Would a comparison to the Spanish American war fit better for you, but instead of yellow journalism pushing the war we have Yellow Propaganda from a Yellow Administration.

]]> By: mikmik http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30680 mikmik Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:04:16 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30680 drpedro Says: April 17th, 2006 at 5:50 pm did diplomacy work in Iraq kiddies? ---------------------------------------------- Uh, it takes more than one party, and in any event, if the war was justified, why is Bush and Cheney going to be impeached for lieing the country into war? Not one of the reasons you mention, exaggerated as they are in your mouth, was used as an excuse or justification. Not one was used to justify the invasion, because they were not good reasons. Lies were used. Your logic and conclusions are pathetic, drpeon. drpedro Says:

April 17th, 2006 at 5:50 pm
did diplomacy work in Iraq kiddies?
———————————————-

Uh, it takes more than one party, and in any event, if the war was justified, why is Bush and Cheney going to be impeached for lieing the country into war? Not one of the reasons you mention, exaggerated as they are in your mouth, was used as an excuse or justification.
Not one was used to justify the invasion, because they were not good reasons. Lies were used.

Your logic and conclusions are pathetic, drpeon.

]]> By: midderpidge http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30679 midderpidge Tue, 18 Apr 2006 04:04:49 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30679 You still can't name one benefit the US has gotten out of this invasion. Now you want to pull the WWII card as if Hussein had the industrial might of Nazi Germany. Many would say the US invasion looks more like Germany invading Poland because of the shaky legitimacy. You still can’t name one benefit the US has gotten out of this invasion. Now you want to pull the WWII card as if Hussein had the industrial might of Nazi Germany. Many would say the US invasion looks more like Germany invading Poland because of the shaky legitimacy.

]]> By: drpedro http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30678 drpedro Tue, 18 Apr 2006 04:04:36 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30678 yea pidgy-widgy...will you please float the Germany invading Poland analogy again...say in October? Scheisskopf yea pidgy-widgy…will you please float the Germany invading Poland analogy again…say in October?

Scheisskopf

]]> By: TomY http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30677 TomY Tue, 18 Apr 2006 04:04:31 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30677 Iraq wasn't Nazi Germany, as if it wasn't clear enough to the entire civilized world. But then again, it's not my ideology that forces me to shoehorn every foreign policy decision into the Munich model. Iraq wasn’t Nazi Germany, as if it wasn’t clear enough to the entire civilized world. But then again, it’s not my ideology that forces me to shoehorn every foreign policy decision into the Munich model.

]]> By: Repack Rider http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30676 Repack Rider Tue, 18 Apr 2006 04:04:27 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30676 <i>The same argument used to keep us out of WWII </i> Refresh my memory. didn't Japan attack us in 1941, and didn't Japan, Germany and Italy declare war on us before we took any military action? Are you saying that Iraq attacked us and declared war? When did these events take place? The same argument used to keep us out of WWII

Refresh my memory. didn’t Japan attack us in 1941, and didn’t Japan, Germany and Italy declare war on us before we took any military action?

Are you saying that Iraq attacked us and declared war? When did these events take place?

]]> By: drpedro http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/04/17/yes-they-are-that-crazy/#comment-30675 drpedro Tue, 18 Apr 2006 03:04:37 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=1802#comment-30675 The same argument used to keep us out of WWII as well Tom...thanks for sticking to the oldies but goodies. The same argument used to keep us out of WWII as well Tom…thanks for sticking to the oldies but goodies.

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