So you have no actual solution to the root problem of economic disparity that drives illegal immigration. All you really have is arrest the poor. Great. Thanks for playing.

Cultural anxiety my arse. I don’t have cultural anxiety of any kind and neither do my children. Our neo-conservative nutcase religious right family of twits think we’re both insane because we have friends that aren’t heterosexual, aren’t white, aren’t Christians, don’t speak English, and aren’t natural born citizens. Thankfully we don’t see them much.

Amazingly enough though, our foreign-born friends all came here LEGALLY. THey went through the long, exhausting immigration process. They did it properly and respected the letter of the law of the country they were joining, and even they agree that the ILLEGALS who are circumventing the system should as well. Nothing burns them more than people skipping all the crap they had to do.

I don’t agree with building a wall but I do think there should be some type of military presence at our borders to back up the INS and more INS agents – if nothing else but for terrorist detterent and drug traffickers. I think the guest worker program is a joke – why not just disband the INS and remove all the checkpoints – why not just tell the lazy Americans who don’t want to work for a living and who would rather sit on welfare to just take a permanent load off?

And before anyone says a thing about that statement let me clarify – welfare is a necessary and good system – I at one point was on it and would not have survived without it. However, I also got off it by WORKING – sometimes two and three shitty minimum wage jobs and missing most of the little one’s youngest years – and it burns the Hell out of me for that every ten hard-working, low-wage-earning people in this country busting their balls to get ahead who need and deserve the help, there’s some loser parking an Escalade in the projects, living in low-income housing designed for actual poor people that need help, with a big screen TV and a couple bricks of coke they’re selling to kids at the local gradeschool. And incidentally where I’m from they are usually WHITE American-born total losers. So you can shove your race/culture/whiner card – it simply doesn’t apply.

Like I said – ignorance is no excuse.

The wall would be a waste of funds. The military should be at the borders – I’m not talking tanks or anything – but military security that’s highly visible could be a help. I still don’t agree with the idea of letting a bunch of lawbreakers – no matter how many there are – get away with skipping the process that their compatriots have had to deal with. I think any employer who hires illegal immigrants should be massively fined and in repeat cases their business liscences suspended. I do not think that helping an illegal immigrant should be a felony but I do believe it should be heavily fined and repeat offenders should be jailed.

Fair is fair and the law is the law. No one has anxiety because they believe it should be followed and not altered to appease the lawbreakers.

You want a solution to the immigration problem?

Everyone in the United States as of January 1 2006 can apply for amnesty which puts them on a multi-year track to citizenship.

Establish a guest worker program that puts people on a multi-year track to citizenship.

Fine and penalize employers who hire workers outside of the guest worker program.

Tie all future trade agreements across the board to worker safety standards, minimum wage laws, environment protections and the right to organize and strike.

For more on that last one go here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/immigrations-supplyand_b_18775.html

*frameoneism: also known as debate diversion syndrome, and rhetorical badger imitation syndrome, presents as an array of symptoms associated with being a rabid liberal, most often including an almost compulsive need to call people with whom he is in disagreement names, even when unprovoked; an occasional desire to change the subject by pretending his opponent has said something he has not, and then arguing that imaginary point; and, finally, to cling tenaciously to an argument, when most reasonable people would see it as long over. Any or all of these symptoms presenting over a long period of time; or anyone of these symptoms appearing explosively without provocation, are indicators that the disorder is deeply rooted and that the Identified Person is in need of immediate treatment

On the other hand, we have a right to control entry into our country. That we refuse to do it isn’t to be blamed on the immigrants, it is to be blamed on our government.

I think this border control “issue” has no easy solutions. I also think that we will get no solution from the government, as they are using this to whip up anti-Hispanic xenophobia in an election year where disappointed right-wing voters may stay home.

I also think any mention of building a wall at the Mexican border, without any increase on enforcement of people who overstay their visa, is a cynical ploy to increase voter turnout and will do nothing to stop the majority of illegal immigration.

Sigh. The law and order argument is just a bullshit cover for cultural anxiety no matter how you want to slice and dice it. Just another talking point market-tested by bigots for mass consumption. You got a problem with people who aren’t “assimilating” fast enough? Tough shit. Get used to life in the global 21st Century. You want to solve the problems of the global 21st century? Stop beating up on and criminalizing poor people and aim at the real source of the problem. People come here for economic reasons and they come here illegally because their economic situations are often desperate and hopeless in their own countries. You people talk about building walls and controlling the flow of people without one thought to the free flow of capital that moves where ever it can find the cheapest, least organized, most vulnerable populations to exploit whether that’s in Baja, Beijing or around the corner from my house in Los Angeles.

I’m also unimpressed by anonymous posters who whine about being misunderstood because “You don’t know anyting about me personally.” It simply boggles the mind.

Your reply with its tone that I or the little one are somehow racist was both hysterical and sad. “Assimilated” was in quotes for a reason – for lack of a better term actually, not because we think every American should look, act, and think exactly the same – that’s just stupid. Your insinuation was both undeserved and wrong. You have no concept of Lucy or I personally and to insult in ignorance is inexcusable.

NOt only is the race card or culture card or whatever you want to call it tired but so is the loaf of bread routine. Every time someone uses the Victor Hugo ValJean reference I wonder if they’ve ever even read the book.

In the few true cases of death versus entry if am not mistaken there are ways. You can’t seriously be asserting that 11 million illegal immigrants entered this country as an avoidance to immediately shuffling off the mortal coil, can you? That they were all in immediate mortal danger?

I lean far left on many issues, but this will never be one of them. There comes a time where common sense trumps the bleeding heart, and this is it – especially when the bleeding heart is advocating breaking the law.

Everyone belongs here – it’s a matter of how you arrived. There is a LEGAL way to get into the US, long and aggrievating as it may be, and for lack of a better way this way will have to do, and those who can’t hack that idea and feel the need to cut the line need to be sent back to do it properly.

I’m saying come up with a better way – a more streamlined and thorough immigration process that will both ensure our borders are leak-proof and increase the number of legal immigrations. Neither party has bothered. The Republicans are split between isolation and total acceptance and the Democratic party sadly died the day Bush was handed the Presidency.

You also haven’t bothered. You changed the topic as an evasion. What was your adjective? Oh yes. Brilliant.

BTW – it would be much easier to take the world view of business dealing with a conscience if we first solved that problem at home.

1) “Now that Hattie planted the seed that  I m here 24 / 73 you re all gonna get on board, right?”

YOU were the one who insulted ME for failing to come up with an answer quick enough. And so I’M at fault for asking why and pointing out how dumb that sounds. Ok.

2) I noticed you didn’t refute a single one of my expliantions. Instead you call me names. Now, where have I heard that before…

“…and it was neither funny nor insightful the first hundred times. Unless you d care to back it up with a scintilla of evidence? I mean, of course, besides the usual profanity, obscenities and name – calling.”

But of course, calling you on that would make me a petty child. Unlike when you call people on things. Because you’re so enlightened.

3) “You re trying, in a weak imititation of frameoneism, to create a point of contention, then claim I disagreed with it, and then get me to argue with you about it.”

Gee and here I was thinking I was just pointing out that you were fulll of it. Frameoneism? Is that what all the cool kids are calling it? Well, now I know.

Incidentally, check the thread again, junior: I posted at 12:31 PM, 4:17 PM, and 10:38 PM.

You posted 7 times!

Now that Hattie planted the seed that “I’m here 24 / 7″ you’re all gonna get on board, right?

Can’t you guys ever be original?

Maybe I’ll be back tomorrow. Minding children makes me hungry. I need something to eat.

Actually, yea, you said it in the post above. You said he called it the ‘root problem’. Is the root problem not the cause of the other problem? Would he therefore not be making a causation argument? Is therefore my point not correct?

Gee Frank, if we knew it was that easy to get you to ignore us, we would’ve done it years ago.

1)To imagine that these people would supplant immigrants in the labor force is to imagine that they would be super-humanly productive, that they d be able to produce enough to fulfill their own consumption and produce a surplus of goods and services that would make it unnecessary for employers to hire immigrants.
Every worker produces less than he consumes right now. How else could one man’s paycheck pay for allthe goods and services he needs that he doesn’t produce. Nothing “super -human” about it. A worker produces way more of X than he could possibly use, in exchange for which he receives money to buy A – Z.

Hey, some of us work for a living and can’t be here 24/7 to see what fun bits of insightful wisdom are spewn from your mouth.

It took all of you 5 hours to come up with one serious answer.

Can I have something less than that, considering the fact that I fully expect the bs flood to follow as soon as I answer?

As somebody said, I supposedly have 4 answers to deal with…