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Amen.
pgg2: Look at who jumps on the bandwagon, not only overlooking the fact that there is some substance to the statement being made, i.e., we are “40 million short” in the labor pool, but also that the statement of one person is an indicator that “cons have gone crazy.”
pgg2: I will engage in a debate with something rational, but this isn’t Fox News where abortion = illegal immigration is considered a legitimate POV. You don’t think that the Klan has equal weight to Martin Luther King, do you? (and if so, woah boy)
“Refute their arguments.”
Yes, let’s dignify every bit of religious insanity coming from the Right by taking it seriously.
Yeah, but the cause of abortions is terrorism, and the cause of terrorism is the Saucer people from space and they mostly land in Iran. To the nuke-mobile!
Oliver, instead of just calling conservatives names, why not try something new?
Refute their arguments.
Then call them names.
Perhaps that explains why you only call them names.
Like I said before – you are as full of crap as you are transparent, which explains much.
PPG, why don’t you explain what the fuck there is to refute about the assertion that abortion is driving immigration. There’s no logic and no facts, so all that remains is to point it out and say “this is what conservatism hath wrought.”
This is part of the ‘Messianic Vision’ that hijiacks the dark side of the
end times spoken of in the Bible. It is similar to the James Watt school
(of Reagan legend) of natural resources, which is; “It’s gonna burn up
in the tribulation anyway so lets cut down that rain forest, and belch
carcinogens into the atmosphere so we can build more churches.”
There are tons of good people who practice christianity in the vein
their founder intended. Then there’s this other bunch.
BTW; S. Hersch coined the phrase ‘messianic vision’ in reference
to George W. Bush, the master hijacker.
Although no doubt this statistic is pretty ominous:
“Among Hispanic women, the total fertility rate (3.1) was higher than the national rate, with the highest rates for Mexican women (3.3) and Puerto Rican women (2.6) and the lowest for Cuban women (1.9).”
OH MY GOD THE BROWN PEOPLE ARE OUT BREEDING WHITEY!!!!!!! IT’S THE END OF AMERICAN CULTURE!!!!!
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/02news/womenbirths.htm
“Strawman. Typical.”
Of course. Because there is absolutely no question that 11 million aborted fetuses, male and female, would have gone on to become low wage workers. There is also absolutely no question that if every one of these 11 million aborted fetuses had been allowed to fullfill their destinies as low wage workers not a single Mexican would have any need or incentive to cross the border because once an employer has found a worker who will work for shit wages they stop looking for workers who work for less than shit wages. Do have to continue?
OKay then.
Might I suggest that we don’t have to worry about in the long run because:
“Women in the United States are having more children than at any time in almost 30 years, according to the latest Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) birth statistics released today by HHS Secretary Tommy G. Thompson.”
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/02news/womenbirths.htm
I blame all the parents who send their children to college. If only they would raise their kids to settle for low wage jobs.
Dude, everyone knows that its the gays’ fault. If everyone was heterosexual and reproducing, we would replace the aborted workers. Its that simple.
And Colson, what a humanitarian:
“What happens is that others come in from abroad to live in those deprived, difficult, and impoverished circumstances and at great public cost.”
Wow. Simply wow. Let’s not bother ourselves with bettering peoples lives, let’s just breed and breed so we can have enough people to do our shit work. Lovely.
Strawman. Typical.
It is incumbent on every male who thinks there’s the slightest bit of substance to this garbage to move to Utah, enter into a polygamous relationship and commence fucking night and day to repopulate the country with white, christian, english-speaking americans.
If hardwingers like Frank and ppg refuse to do so, we should give them a new name…
chickendicks.
The abortion thing is a load. Frankly, considering that most women who chose abortion do so because they know there is something gravely wrong with the fetus, there is a high risk of death to mother, child, or both, or because they are in no capacity to take care of a child I’d imagine that infant death, abandonment, a whole host of crimes, and other statistics would have gone up before the labor pool. This entire immigration issue has us steamed. As Lucy put it (and I completely agree) “This is just crap Mom. It’s like the idiot kid that cuts in line at lunch. The lunch ladies send him to the back of the line. Not because they don’t like him – because he’s breaking the rules. I don’t care if it’s 1 line skipper or 11 million – they need to learn to wait their turn like everyone else. They should all go home and do it the right way.” Overly simplistic? Sure – but she’s little. Right on target? You bet. I’m not anti-immigration – as far as I’m concerned no one in this country who is sane could be anti-immigration because none of us would be here without it, but there is a LEGAL way to do it, and that’s how it should be done.
This is just crap Mom. It s like the idiot kid that cuts in line at lunch. The lunch ladies send him to the back of the line. Not because they don t like him – because he s breaking the rules. I don t care if it s 1 line skipper or 11 million – they need to learn to wait their turn like everyone else. They should all go home and do it the right way.
As usual, from the mouths of babes comes the greatest wisdom
It may be the greatest wisdom, but there still is the problem of getting people “assimilated” in a fair and timely manner as well. Everyone wants “the American dream” – and understandably so. The question is why is it taking so long and how can legal immigration be streamlined to accomodate the masses yearning to breathe free? You can’t just answer three questions and BANG – you’re a citizen, but there has to be a better way than how we are doing it now. There also has to be a better way to keep our borders sealed to illegals. So where are the fresh ideas from the think tank guys?
“It may be the greatest wisdom, but there still is the problem of getting people assimilated in a fair and timely manner as well.”
It isn’t that I don’t like you, it’s just that I want you to be exactly like me otherwise you aren’t allowed. Brilliant.
You want to solve the problem of illegal immigration? You can start by looking at what kind of crime it really is. Immigration isn’t like a kid cutting in line to get lunch before someone else. It’s like someone stealing a loaf of bread to keep from starving to death.
You solve that problem by fighting for global minimum wage laws and other worker protections like safety, health and environmental regulations when we negotiate free trade agreements. We pass NAFTA so US companies bring jobs to Mexico but they move even more jobs to China where the wages are even lower:
“But in a larger sense, Mexicans also feel shortchanged by globalization. They thought they would be America’s biggest workshop. That honor now belongs to China, whose workers often earn a fraction of what Mexicans do. Mexican policymakers thought even more trade pacts would deliver additional benefits: That’s why Mexico has signed trade agreements with 30 other countries, more than any other nation. Sure enough, consumers got cheaper and better goods. Yet local manufacturers of everything from toys to shoes, as well as farmers of rice and corn, are struggling just to survive the onslaught of cheap imports. Ordinary Mexicans hoped NAFTA would generate enough jobs to keep them at home. Instead, the jobless are flocking in ever-greater numbers across the border. Voters figured that somehow NAFTA’s gains would be translated into better schools. Yet a cash-starved government is still struggling to deliver the minimum in teachers, classrooms, and books. Vital but controversial reforms that pressed on Mexico before NAFTA — such as modernizing the power sector and overhauling the leaky tax code — are an even more difficult sell now that political power is split among several parties.”
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_51/b3863008.htm
The point isn’t that free trade is bad but it should come with the same kind of protections that built the middle class in America, the right hard won by unions in this country. Talking about “saving” American culture and the threat of the unassimilated is all just reactionary noise. Face the realities of a global marketplace and fight for the rights of the poor and the working classes not to be exploited for their labor. That’ll get you started on solving the immigration “problem.” It’s in quotes because quite frankly illegal immigration is only a problem for the people who feel culturally threatened by it. It isn’t a problem for the companies and business owners who hire illegal immigrants. You want to to know how to solve the immigration problem? Find a way to make global capital more responsive and responsible to human needs.
While some say we should be promoting family planning — in Mexico, I think Colson is on the right track. He just doesn’t take it far enough.
It should be obvious to everyone that the use of contraception is the real root of the problem. Quite frankly, our immigration foibles would pale in comparison to the wonderful possibilities in an America with half a billion people. Add that to the similar exciting possibilities waiting to happen all over the world without the yoke of contraception. Fighting abortion is only the tip of the iceberg. If you really want to reduce immigration, start making whoopee with delightful abandon right now and toss out those wrong-headed condoms and other forms of birth control.
[...] Colson is a nutjob. Funny how he was referenced on a recent episode of The Sopranos, too. Via Oliver Willis.
Found in: In the News& Politics
[...]
[...] Colson is a nutjob. Funny how he was referenced on a recent episode of The Sopranos, too. Via Oliver Willis.
Found in: In the News& Politics
[...]
Could all of you pseudo intellectuals stop playing, “I can pretend to be dumber than you” for a moment?
One man has one opinion, based on a fact. There were 40 million abortions since 1973. Say none of the abortions in 1974 took place, and just half of the children born made it through high school. That would be over 700,00 children. Assuming half of them were living today, there would be 350,000 thirty – two year olds alive today, who would not have been alive because of Roe v Wade.
Apply the same formula to 12 years (1986), and you get 4,200,00 people alive over the age of 21.
There is nothing religious or ideological about numbers. You could apply similar math to victims of automobile accidents.
Now, if there is a refutation of the possibilty that these numbers might have provided US employers with a disincentive to hire illegal immigrants, I’d like to hear it.
And I don’t mean the totally anecdotal “argument” that in the imagination of one — or is it two posters — infant death, abandonment, a whole host of crimes, and other statistics would have gone up before the labor pool. (Which, of course, doesn’t address the very real, unimaginary, question, “If none of those abortions took place, how many workers would there be available today, that are not?”. After all, abandoned, and / or neglected children, and / or convicted criminals do not automatically become ineligible to work).
If you’re having fun at Colson’s expense, be honest enough to say so. But stop pretending that he’s the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
And, frameone, you can stop playing the “fear / race” card. We “got the joke,” and it was neither funny nor insightful the first hundred times. Unless you’d care to back it up with a scintilla of evidence? I mean, of course, besides the usual profanity, obscenities and name – calling.
There is nothing religious or ideological about numbers. You could apply similar math to victims of automobile accidents.
Wow, imagine if we had required seat belts and airbags earlier, all the people we could have prevented from coming into the country…
From what I can see, the War on Brains continues unabated…
OK, Frank, I’ll play along.
Colson makes a very strained argument. He asks his audience to accept the assumption that the demand for immigrant labor would never have happened if aborted fetuses had been born instead.
Of course, he’s only looking at one aspect of the labor supply side the question.
Pick any number you like out of the 40 million. If you added that many people to the current economy, every single one of them would buy food, most would have some sort of house or apartment, they’d buy cars, gasoline, Big Macs, and shower shoes.
In other words, they wouldn’t just add to the supply of labor–they’d also add to the demand for goods and services. That would make the economy somewhat larger than it is today. To imagine that these people would supplant immigrants in the labor force is to imagine that they would be super-humanly productive, that they’d be able to produce enough to fulfill their own consumption and produce a surplus of goods and services that would make it unnecessary for employers to hire immigrants.
In short, Colson is just grasping at the latest headline and trying to twist it to serve his own agenda.
On the batshit crazy scale, Colson is somewhere between Pat Robertson and L. Ron Hubbard
Talk about Monday morning quarterbacking.
Frank, you and Colson were placed on this Earth for our amusement. Play along.
Here’s an even simpler answer.
Coorelation doesn’t equal causation. Just because two numbers are rising at the same time, doesn’t mean they cause each other. Abortions and illegal immigrants have both risen since Roe v. Wade. So have gun sales and the price of movies. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing. Gun sales are not causing illegal immigrants anymore than abortions.
On re-reading, I can make that even simpler.
Colson imagines 40 million more producers. He conveniently forgets to add 40 million more consumers.
“Now, if there is a refutation of the possibilty that these numbers might have provided US employers with a disincentive to hire illegal immigrants, I d like to hear it.”
Ooo! Ooo! I’ll play too!
It also doesn’t take into account WHY companies hire illegal immigrants in the first place. They are not subject to labor laws. Those 40 million unaborted folks (Fetsuses? Fetsusi? ) would all have to be paid minimum wage and be protected by worker’s comp laws. Illegal immigrants cannot complain about their treatment because that would draw attention to their status. This means that Wal-Mart can hire 40 million illegal immigrants for a lot cheaper than 40 million unaborted Americans. In the end, it means that your argument is pointless. Even if all of those people were magically here, they still wouldn’t automatically get work. Corporations will always seek the cheaper solution, be it illegal hirings, outsourcing or skirting the rules. Repealing women’s rights won’t change that.
I’m no statistician so maybe someone can correct me here but:
The current US labor force is 149,300,000
The current unemployment rate is 4.5 percent.
That makes the total number of unemployed Americans 6,663,000.
Now there are an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the country.
If Colson is correct and just having extra Americans around would solve the immigration problem why are there currently 6 million Americans out of work?
However, the rising price of movies has made gun ownership more attractive.
Frank, there are four good responses to your question. Take your pick.
Frank,
Quaker and Leroy’s logic is the “Duh” no brainer response that shows how inane Colson’s logic is.
Again since you are either stupider than a fence post or deliberately being obtuse, really slow this time:
1) People hire illegal immigrants because they want to avoid paying minimum wages, Fica taxes and so on. Uping the number of US citizens as potential workers does nothing to change that equation; a crooked employer who wants to cheat and save money is still a crooked employer….
2) More Consumers equals more demand requiring more goods and services and so on and so on… Since when did Conservatives become believers in a zero-sum economy where all you can do is slice up an existing pie? That is the underlying argument behind his logic. If you seriously applied the logic being used by Colson you should oppose free-trade and a whole bunch of other things Conservatives generally say are good.
Once that “Stupid Lever”is pulled, there’s just no pulling it back, eh, guys?
I should have known better than to throw truth before liberals…
Frank:
Weren’t you the one complaing that people ignore your questions and just make dumb insults? Quaker and I both answered your question and you insult us. “Hypocrisy: Fun for the whole family!”
12:31
4:17
Now do you understand why people don’t bother to give serious answers to your questions?
6) Quaker and I both answered your question and you insult us. Hypocrisy: Fun for the whole family!
How much of your answer do you think I read, after
“Ooo! Ooo! I ll play too!”?
Did you guess:
1) None
2) None
3) None
4) All of the above
“So, why assume that only illegal aliens can benefit from working off the books? Even legal immigrants can work off the books. Anyone can work off the books.”
Yes, but only illegals are REQUIRED to work off of the books. They can’t work on the books or they would be caught. They are ILLEGAL.
“They don t come here after job interviews in Michoacan. Or do you believe the 11 million illegals is a static figure of permanently employed people?”
Reread what I said. Go on. I’ll wait.
Finished? What I said was that given a choice between an illegal and cheap worker and a legal and expensive worker, businesses will choose the cheap and illegal. It doesn’t matter how many Americans need jobs. It doesn’t matter if they outnumber immiggrants 10:1. Hell, even if we built the grreat wall of Mexico, they’d still just outsource our jobs to India and ever other country that doesn’t have labor laws.
5) More Consumers equals more demand requiring more goods and services and so on and so on
And shooby – dooby – dooby…
Did you ever of the Law of Diminishing Returns? According to what you’re saying, we should just keep letting people into this country because they create demand. They also incur expenses. They also use things up — i.e., cause things to depreciate faster: highways, water, food, medicine, etc. They also commit crimes. They also have children. Catholics from Mexico have a higher birth rate than their non – Catholic neighbors.
Let me get this straight: You’re all upset because I pointed out that you were all actung like 13 year olds with a substitute teacher, but then, all of a sudden, you’re answering me seriously, and I’m supposed to switch gears like a Hollywood stunt driver?
Is that it?
Then, of course, the hysterically ironic punchline, delivered in all seriousness:
Now do you understand why people don t bother to give serious answers to your questions?
It took all of you 5 hours to come up with one serious answer.
Can I have something less than that, considering the fact that I fully expect the bs flood to follow as soon as I answer?
As somebody said, I supposedly have 4 answers to deal with…
“It took all of you 5 hours to come up with one serious answer.”
Hey, some of us work for a living and can’t be here 24/7 to see what fun bits of insightful wisdom are spewn from your mouth.
4) A crooked employer who wants to cheat and save money is still a crooked employer& .
So, why assume that only illegal aliens can benefit from working off the books? Even legal immigrants can work off the books. Anyone can work off the books.
It’s helpful to read all of Colson’s comments… Abortion is just one of the problems Colson describes — he calls abortion the “root problem.”
1)To imagine that these people would supplant immigrants in the labor force is to imagine that they would be super-humanly productive, that they d be able to produce enough to fulfill their own consumption and produce a surplus of goods and services that would make it unnecessary for employers to hire immigrants.
Every worker produces less than he consumes right now. How else could one man’s paycheck pay for allthe goods and services he needs that he doesn’t produce. Nothing “super -human” about it. A worker produces way more of X than he could possibly use, in exchange for which he receives money to buy A – Z.
2) Coorelation doesn t equal causation. Just because two numbers are rising at the same time, doesn t mean they cause each other.
No one said it did.
3) Even if all of those people were magically here, they still wouldn t automatically get work. The same is true of illegal aliens. They don’t come here after job interviews in Michoacan. Or do you believe the 11 million illegals is a static figure of permanently employed people?
“How much of your answer do you think I read, after
Ooo! Ooo! I ll play too! ?”
Gee Frank, if we knew it was that easy to get you to ignore us, we would’ve done it years ago.
“2) Coorelation doesn t equal causation. Just because two numbers are rising at the same time, doesn t mean they cause each other.
No one said it did.”
Actually, yea, you said it in the post above. You said he called it the ‘root problem’. Is the root problem not the cause of the other problem? Would he therefore not be making a causation argument? Is therefore my point not correct?
L B: You’re way off the point. You’re trying, in a weak imititation of frameoneism, to create a point of contention, then claim I disagreed with it, and then get me to argue with you about it.
Incidentally, check the thread again, junior: I posted at 12:31 PM, 4:17 PM, and 10:38 PM.
You posted 7 times!
Now that Hattie planted the seed that “I’m here 24 / 7″ you’re all gonna get on board, right?
Can’t you guys ever be original?
Maybe I’ll be back tomorrow. Minding children makes me hungry. I need something to eat.
Wow. Just wow.
1) “Now that Hattie planted the seed that I m here 24 / 73 you re all gonna get on board, right?”
YOU were the one who insulted ME for failing to come up with an answer quick enough. And so I’M at fault for asking why and pointing out how dumb that sounds. Ok.
2) I noticed you didn’t refute a single one of my expliantions. Instead you call me names. Now, where have I heard that before…
“…and it was neither funny nor insightful the first hundred times. Unless you d care to back it up with a scintilla of evidence? I mean, of course, besides the usual profanity, obscenities and name – calling.”
But of course, calling you on that would make me a petty child. Unlike when you call people on things. Because you’re so enlightened.
3) “You re trying, in a weak imititation of frameoneism, to create a point of contention, then claim I disagreed with it, and then get me to argue with you about it.”
Gee and here I was thinking I was just pointing out that you were fulll of it. Frameoneism? Is that what all the cool kids are calling it? Well, now I know.
Frameone,
Your reply with its tone that I or the little one are somehow racist was both hysterical and sad. “Assimilated” was in quotes for a reason – for lack of a better term actually, not because we think every American should look, act, and think exactly the same – that’s just stupid. Your insinuation was both undeserved and wrong. You have no concept of Lucy or I personally and to insult in ignorance is inexcusable.
NOt only is the race card or culture card or whatever you want to call it tired but so is the loaf of bread routine. Every time someone uses the Victor Hugo ValJean reference I wonder if they’ve ever even read the book.
In the few true cases of death versus entry if am not mistaken there are ways. You can’t seriously be asserting that 11 million illegal immigrants entered this country as an avoidance to immediately shuffling off the mortal coil, can you? That they were all in immediate mortal danger?
I lean far left on many issues, but this will never be one of them. There comes a time where common sense trumps the bleeding heart, and this is it – especially when the bleeding heart is advocating breaking the law.
Everyone belongs here – it’s a matter of how you arrived. There is a LEGAL way to get into the US, long and aggrievating as it may be, and for lack of a better way this way will have to do, and those who can’t hack that idea and feel the need to cut the line need to be sent back to do it properly.
I’m saying come up with a better way – a more streamlined and thorough immigration process that will both ensure our borders are leak-proof and increase the number of legal immigrations. Neither party has bothered. The Republicans are split between isolation and total acceptance and the Democratic party sadly died the day Bush was handed the Presidency.
You also haven’t bothered. You changed the topic as an evasion. What was your adjective? Oh yes. Brilliant.
BTW – it would be much easier to take the world view of business dealing with a conscience if we first solved that problem at home.
“You have no concept of Lucy or I personally and to insult in ignorance is inexcusable.”
Sigh. The law and order argument is just a bullshit cover for cultural anxiety no matter how you want to slice and dice it. Just another talking point market-tested by bigots for mass consumption. You got a problem with people who aren’t “assimilating” fast enough? Tough shit. Get used to life in the global 21st Century. You want to solve the problems of the global 21st century? Stop beating up on and criminalizing poor people and aim at the real source of the problem. People come here for economic reasons and they come here illegally because their economic situations are often desperate and hopeless in their own countries. You people talk about building walls and controlling the flow of people without one thought to the free flow of capital that moves where ever it can find the cheapest, least organized, most vulnerable populations to exploit whether that’s in Baja, Beijing or around the corner from my house in Los Angeles.
I’m also unimpressed by anonymous posters who whine about being misunderstood because “You don’t know anyting about me personally.” It simply boggles the mind.
I refuse to blame anyone for coming to this country illegally, at least if they came for economic or political reasons. It is the height of arrogance for me, a Native born American, to criticize anyone for trying to feed their family. I was lucky to be born here, that some poor Mexican didn’t have such good fortune is no reason for me to look down on them and point a finger and say “criminal!”. If I were in their shoes, I would do anything I could to make a better life for my family. Wouldn’t you?
On the other hand, we have a right to control entry into our country. That we refuse to do it isn’t to be blamed on the immigrants, it is to be blamed on our government.
I think this border control “issue” has no easy solutions. I also think that we will get no solution from the government, as they are using this to whip up anti-Hispanic xenophobia in an election year where disappointed right-wing voters may stay home.
I also think any mention of building a wall at the Mexican border, without any increase on enforcement of people who overstay their visa, is a cynical ploy to increase voter turnout and will do nothing to stop the majority of illegal immigration.
I was lucky to be born here, that some poor Mexican didn t have such good fortune is no reason for me to look down on them and point a finger and say criminal! . If I were in their shoes, I would do anything I could to make a better life for my family. Wouldn t you?
Just tell me the last crime you committed for your family…
Did it involve running away from your homeland, stealthily creeping into a foreign country, forging documents to get a low paying job, and spending the rest of your life hiding from the Immigra?
No?
Then stow it…
I did answer two of your “explanations”, but apparently you aren’t satisfied. (Like you might ever be — I think you’ve got a case of frameoneism*, unfortunately).
But let’s try again, shall we?
*frameoneism: also known as debate diversion syndrome, and rhetorical badger imitation syndrome, presents as an array of symptoms associated with being a rabid liberal, most often including an almost compulsive need to call people with whom he is in disagreement names, even when unprovoked; an occasional desire to change the subject by pretending his opponent has said something he has not, and then arguing that imaginary point; and, finally, to cling tenaciously to an argument, when most reasonable people would see it as long over. Any or all of these symptoms presenting over a long period of time; or anyone of these symptoms appearing explosively without provocation, are indicators that the disorder is deeply rooted and that the Identified Person is in need of immediate treatment
And, incidentally, illegal aliens do not HAVE TO work off the books, and many of them don’t. They obtain false papers so they can they “back up” their W – 9 Form, Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification, used if you are “a U.S. person (including a resident alien), to provide your correct TIN to the person requesting it (the requester)” [usually an employer]. The ID required is a minimum of a SSA card, and at least one picture ID, and one more item.
L&L
You want a solution to the immigration problem?
Everyone in the United States as of January 1 2006 can apply for amnesty which puts them on a multi-year track to citizenship.
Establish a guest worker program that puts people on a multi-year track to citizenship.
Fine and penalize employers who hire workers outside of the guest worker program.
Tie all future trade agreements across the board to worker safety standards, minimum wage laws, environment protections and the right to organize and strike.
For more on that last one go here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/immigrations-supplyand_b_18775.html
And just so you don’t think that I’m such horrible bleeding heart I don’t have a problem with hiring more border guards and giving them the equiptment they need to get the job done. I am totally opposed to building walls or militarizing the border.
Frameone,
Cultural anxiety my arse. I don’t have cultural anxiety of any kind and neither do my children. Our neo-conservative nutcase religious right family of twits think we’re both insane because we have friends that aren’t heterosexual, aren’t white, aren’t Christians, don’t speak English, and aren’t natural born citizens. Thankfully we don’t see them much.
Amazingly enough though, our foreign-born friends all came here LEGALLY. THey went through the long, exhausting immigration process. They did it properly and respected the letter of the law of the country they were joining, and even they agree that the ILLEGALS who are circumventing the system should as well. Nothing burns them more than people skipping all the crap they had to do.
I don’t agree with building a wall but I do think there should be some type of military presence at our borders to back up the INS and more INS agents – if nothing else but for terrorist detterent and drug traffickers. I think the guest worker program is a joke – why not just disband the INS and remove all the checkpoints – why not just tell the lazy Americans who don’t want to work for a living and who would rather sit on welfare to just take a permanent load off?
And before anyone says a thing about that statement let me clarify – welfare is a necessary and good system – I at one point was on it and would not have survived without it. However, I also got off it by WORKING – sometimes two and three shitty minimum wage jobs and missing most of the little one’s youngest years – and it burns the Hell out of me for that every ten hard-working, low-wage-earning people in this country busting their balls to get ahead who need and deserve the help, there’s some loser parking an Escalade in the projects, living in low-income housing designed for actual poor people that need help, with a big screen TV and a couple bricks of coke they’re selling to kids at the local gradeschool. And incidentally where I’m from they are usually WHITE American-born total losers. So you can shove your race/culture/whiner card – it simply doesn’t apply.
Like I said – ignorance is no excuse.
The wall would be a waste of funds. The military should be at the borders – I’m not talking tanks or anything – but military security that’s highly visible could be a help. I still don’t agree with the idea of letting a bunch of lawbreakers – no matter how many there are – get away with skipping the process that their compatriots have had to deal with. I think any employer who hires illegal immigrants should be massively fined and in repeat cases their business liscences suspended. I do not think that helping an illegal immigrant should be a felony but I do believe it should be heavily fined and repeat offenders should be jailed.
Fair is fair and the law is the law. No one has anxiety because they believe it should be followed and not altered to appease the lawbreakers.
“No one has anxiety because they believe it should be followed and not altered to appease the lawbreakers.”
So you have no actual solution to the root problem of economic disparity that drives illegal immigration. All you really have is arrest the poor. Great. Thanks for playing.