“When I drive my pickup into Home Depot’s parking lot, and there’s 15 guys yelling, ‘Pick me! Pick me!’ & I feel like we’re under attack,” Schwartz says. “When I drive down Bethany Home Road [a main Phoenix thoroughfare that runs through both predominantly Anglo and Hispanic neighborhoods] and read billboards in Spanish, when I walk into Wal-Mart and the signs are in Spanish, I feel threatened.”
Oh my God, billboards in Spanish. What next?
Man, the white man thinks he’s losing the country. You watch the news:
”We’re losing everything. We’re fucking losing. Affirmative action, and illegal aliens…and we’re fucking losing the country.”
Losing? Shut the fuck up. White people ain’t losing shit. lf y’all losing, who’s winning?
-Chris Rock, Bigger and Blacker
“I feel threatened.
Nice. The raison d’etre (no threat intended) for the entire conservative movement.
“hate…”
“Racist…”
“Uncle Tom…”
“Back of the bus”
Boy, Oliver- you’ve got the race baiting talking points runnin’ hot lately. Got anything to say about Cynthia Mckinney? Or does she embarrass you too much to claim as one of your own?
(And for all you “progressives” who would jump to the conclusion that my question was being “racist”- I mean Democrat. If I were talking race, I would have said “one of OUR own.”
The raison d etre (no threat intended) for the entire conservative movement.
Oh no! Is that French? I feel threatened.
Oh, yeah — the old “Republicans are racists” bit. Right.
This is where find out that, on a psychosocial level, all conservatives have no concept of holding on to tradition, or looking over sweeping social change with a gimlet eye. Naaah! They’re a – scared! Puck, puck, puck, puck, PUCK!
I’ve got the evidence right here… Oh, wait… Maybe I left it in my other pants… I knew when I left the house I was forgetting something!
And then, just when I thought the charge had no basis, along comes the noted Afro – American philosopher, Cornell West Chris Rock.
Hehe
Et moi, aussi… Et alors?
Je parle francais! Boo.
The guy Oliver quoted says he’s scared. What more could you want to provide evidence that the right is scared of a change in the culture. Stagnant cultures go the way of the Romans, especially when government corruption is involved. Make the argument that there are some democrats that are corrupt. Ok. I agree.
He even uses the phrase ‘under attack’. How are illegal immigrants (forget what we plan to do about this issue) attacking American culture? By demanding that Americans accept the existence of legal immigrants and the culture they choose to live cherish? Seriously, Frank, what is your point? Oliver’s point is clear, there are those on the right that clearly fear other cultures and languages. I have yet to see you concede a point on this site.
By the way, those words of Chris Rock actually speak volumes if you would actually think about them. If you want to claim that other races are “winning” as if this is some sort of game, go ahead. He makes a comment about him being sick of hearing white people talking about other races as a bane to their existence, like the guy Oliver quotes.
Might I add that it is most definitely not helpful to constantly cast people with differing views as automatically racist, xenophobic or fearful.
If you can, try to imagine how I felt a while back trying to “prove” to every Tom, Dick and Oliver, that popped into the thread, that I was not a racist, when I was truly undecided about how I felt about this issue. The accusations outweighed the opinions by about 10 to 1, and the facts by about 50 to 1.
The worst part was not the accusations themselves; if you’re not a racist, it really doesn’t matter much if you’re called one. The problem was being treated like a racist, addressed like one: Shorter Frank, “Here some the Hispanics! Help me!”, or, “Frank, don’t you realize America is a melting pot — we have nothing to fear from Mexicans” (right, I need to be told that when I live literally a few hundred yards away from a community of thousands of Hispanics — I’m so afraid, I’ve been living here for 9 years)”
And,of course, there was this beaut: “If you think American culture is “under attack,” (other people’s words, not mine) well, then, define “American culture.”
Pretty much like being asked by a 911 operator, after you have fallen down a flight of stairs, “Were the stairs oak or maple?”
The point is that it is an extremely well – worn cliché that being opposed to unlimited immigration is based on fear.
Would it be safe to say that being nonchalant about who enters this country is “irrational”, too, because that nonchalance would not reflect any economic, psychosocial, forensic, multiculturalist, or purely cultural effects (such as the idea that there will be an enormous amount of Catholics and other Christians in this country if the 11 – 12 million immigrants reproduce themselves at the current rate.)
As I have said many times before, these are not these things to fear, they are not inherently dangerous or repulsive. But they are “on the table.”
I’d be willing to bet that there are people who are afraid, and there are people who don’t want America “overrun” by brown people, Spanish speaking people, or Catholic people, or people with huge families.
My ex – wife to be’s pet peeves are that when two Spanish (usually Mexican, where I live) families meet on the sidewalk, they spread all over the sidewalk, and don’t readily let you by; when they’re shopping in the local (Mexican) grocery, they have a tendency to bring a few items up to the counter at a time, while she’s waiting on line like a good “WASP” — she’s Puerto Rican, but she was raised by Bronx Irish Cat’lics.
The worse thing for her is when Hispanic people look at her funny when she speaks English with no accent, and even funnier when dhe speaks NO Spanish.
I get perturbed when my way is blocked on the sidewalk, but I can live with it. I can shop in the Mexican Market the way the Mexicans do, instead of like a “good WASP”, and I speak a tiny bit of Spanish (6 college credits worth, and whatever I can get from my training in french, latin, my family’s Italian from when I was a kid), but no one expects me to speak any, so they’re pleasantly surprised.
I’m just trying to say that reactions to immigrants in general, and Mexicans in particular, where I live, are on a spectrum.
Look at our demographics:
Hispanic or Latino and race
Total Population 72182 100.00%
Hispanic or Latino(of any race) 14492 20.08%
Mexican 6899 9.56%
Puerto Rican 1918 2.66%
Cuban 237 0.33%
Other Hispanic or Latino 5438 7.53%
Not Hispanic or Latino 57690 79.92%
White alone 40272 55.79%
I think it’s those not so small percentages that present the problem, and the fact that are hardly any Mexicans or Hispanics who speak perfect English, so they are instantly recognizable.
I’m not saying you’re a racist. I was one of those that wanted you to define “American culture” and what qualities you think might be lost if we put immigrants on a path to citizenship. I just want a frame of reference for what you think American culture is to engage you directly. Your metaphor makes no sense.
The guy Oliver quoted is clearly afraid. He isn’t saying anything about being opposed to unlimited immigration.
It’s really too bad about you being considered a racist in this blog, but if that bothers you, go to another blog. It’s not as though your name will ever be cleared, especially trying to defend the guy Oliver quotes. It’s absurd to even try. Or trying to defend Rush Limbaugh.
Also, people being paranoid about other races looking at them funny is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You see one person do it, so, when you come across them, you look at them funny first, then, they have no choice but to return the gesture. I don’t consider it to be a racist response, but a reaction you at least need to be aware of. A smile goes a long way. So does not thinking about it anymore.
can’t even see it now:
Testing the italics glitch…
Got it… reverse the italics code. Start with this:
You see where prejudging someone gets you, Mike?
mike, you have to be as dumb as a stump. First of all, why in the world should I leave this blog because X amount of numbskulls (perhaps including you?) refuse to believe I’m not a racist?
I think you’re a friggin’ idiot, and I’m about to prove it.
Will you leave this blog when I’m done — proving you’re an idiot, that is?
people being paranoid about other races looking at them funny is a self-fulfilling prophecy… I don t consider it to be a racist response, but a reaction you at least need to be aware of.
I was talking about my Puerto Rican wife, you putz!
she s Puerto Rican, but she was raised by Bronx Irish Cat lics
The worse thing for her is when Hispanic people look at her funny when she speaks English with no accent, and even funnier when dhe speaks NO Spanish.
You still think it’s a “reaction [I] at least need to be aware of”?
And you wonder why I get frustrated?
You think I was defending that guy? [Not that being concerned about another person's fears is a bad thing].
I’ll tell you one thing, for sure, don’t ever, ever leave this blog. You belong here. Man oh man, do you belong here. The perfect sycophant for Oliver’s Army.
You know what I mean
There’s definitely an element of fear to parts of the anti-immigration movement. It’s by no means the whole story, or even most of it, but it’s definitely there. Fear of the Other.
Incidentally, italics seem be working fine.
Ah, finally the Chicago Sun Times sheds some light on the 10,000 lb elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about: “Growing Anger Among Blacks As Latinos ‘Take Over’.” The final paragraphs:
Note the phrase “coming in and taking over.”
Are we to therefore assume that Hutchinson is a “racist”?
This story perfectly illustrates the folly of Oliver’s “look over there – RACISTS! RACISTS! RACISTS!” meme. If this is the strategy that Democrats want to use to intimidate politicians into passing immigration amnesty, then they had better think twice. The “black leadership” is one of the most powerful lobbies in the Democrat party, and nobody — and I mean nobody — who wants their support will be able to get away with insinuating that they are racists.
You know what? I’m no bigot or a racist, but I’ll readily concede this much: I don’t see why we can’t have English as our stated national tongue. I’m not saying that I want to exclude Spanish or Portugese or French (God forbid!) native students from classrooms or anything like that, but I can see a point and I daresay a political foothold with most of America on the language issue.
I readily grant that American culture is an assimilating blob but I still believe that we need to all agree on a unifying language if we can agree on nothing else. I’m not intimidated by southern immigrants legal or illegal, but I don’t believe that we need to become Canadian-style bilingual in our business practices for their sake.
Is that wrong? Am I making a value judgement? No and no. But for some things like means of communication, I don’t think the “status quo” is always so bad.
The worse thing for her is when Hispanic people look at her funny when she speaks English with no accent, and even funnier when dhe speaks NO Spanish.
It could also be paranoia, well that word is too strong, but self conciousness and low self esteem that causes you or your wife to think people are reacting negatively to your wife talking english only, and without accent.
I am not saying somepeople don’t react anbd that you are imagining that, but I think it is entirely possibly that you and her are overreacting, misjudging, or even, as mikdbot says, inducing that type of response uncounciously, because it is expected.
(Perhaps DrPedro can explain the mechanisms how it would work in this sort of situation)
You know something? I have to catch myself sometimes, but now I am used to it – I used to do a double take when a Japanese person spoke with perfect Canadian ‘accent’. It is because I had not been exposed to many, if any, people like that before, and my expectation, based on experience, was to here speach in a Japanese accent. It is not because I am racist, but I was for sure prejuduced by experience.
Funny, an oriental guy I was hanging around with for a while in Vancouver looked at me one day and said, “Man, you are not in the least predjudiced, are you?”
That was one of the biggest compliments I ever got. This guy was perhaps feeling biased against, or whatever, he also said to me one time after coming out of a gas bar, “Heh, you were the only white guy in there” wait, he said it in the store. I hadn’t noticed (there were about 4 others plus clerk).
What I effin hate is that after he said that, I started to feel slightly self concious.
What kind of a world is this that we are taught to notice differences as important, but similarities mean less?
Orwellian: I m no bigot or a racist, but I ll readily concede this much: I don t see why we can t have English as our stated national tongue.
You know what’s interesting about that statement? I don’t agree with you. But if I made that statement, ten liberals would come storming out of the woodwork, calling me a racist.
Let’s see if you get away with it.
BTW, what’s my objection? Only two. If you make English the official language, then, by law, failure to understand English is no longer an excuse, as in credit card and loan agreements, purchase and rent – to – purchase, and leases. This could easily lead to abuses.
Secondly, this might do away with the right to an interpreter at certain legal proceedings.
And, oh yes, Mike, I smile at everybody, regardless of race, creed, color, or country of origin, except liberals, of course.
Where I live they have a summer uniform: Izod shirts, and khaki bermudas or Dockers.
I was referring to frameone’s comment that I feel threatened was the “raison d etre (no threat intended) for the entire conservative movement.” {a dead horse ge beats, without explanation or proof, often, tediously and monotonously}
“This is where find out that, on a psychosocial level, all conservatives… [are] a – scared!
A note to one and all: Nothing is less logical, and more provocative, IMHO, than a statement that begins “How else do you explain the first comment by you in this thread?”, or the even more anger – inspiring, “There can only be one reason for your statement that _____”.
It’s “cheap” thinking, at best, and baiting at worst.
Frank,
Sorry. My mistake. The paragraph prior to you discussing the fact that people look at her funny says she’s a Puerto Rican and in the next paragraph I didn’t realize “her” was still referring to your ex-wife. I don’t know what I was thinking. My mistake. But please don’t just call me an idiot. The fact that my reading comprehension isn’t perfect doesn’t make me an idiot. In any event, I don’t see why it’s a big deal why someone would look at her and expect her to have an accent and then look at her funny when she does not. What is your point there? It’s sort of the same thing as seeing Mike Tyson and then listening to him speak. There is nothing wrong with pre-judging, so long as it isn’t vindictive.
My point was more about being looked at funny by another race. When I read that sentence I got to thinking about that one show “Black or White” or something on FX and the African American guy and the White Guy have completely different prisms from which they view the other race and their own race. I’m sure black men get dirty looks all the time as white people still harbor resentment, but sometimes you can misread people rather easily. In any event, that was the context of my argument as I read that sentence and I totally screwed up. Sorry.
Yes, I think by your very first comment you were, in effect, defending the guy Oliver quotes. How else do you explain the first comment by you in this thread?
I’m not calling you a racist, nor have I in any previous thread.
mike: I owe you you an apology. I should not call you, or anyone, an idiot for making a mistake. For that matter, I shouldn’t call anyone an idot for disagreeing with me, as is done by so many on these threads.
I wish people would realize that constantly using the race card to push people around has cheapened and diminished the allegation so much that I now just roll my eyes when I hear someone whine about racism.
Oliver, you must have gone to the Cynthia McKinney school of blogging or something, because you’re the king of the race-whiners.
Frank, I appreciate the apology (sincerely). Also, as a point of note, I will refrain from the “how else do you explain” canard, but didn’t think anything of it at the time as I truly thought the statement was referring to Oliver’s comment and not frame as you usually indicate “frame” is the intended target (for lack of a better term) of your original post. So, I had thought ‘here we go again’ was you and Oliver, not you and frame. My mistake once again.
In any event, the original post by Oliver is showing that this fear does permeate to some extent (even one person is some extent) and if you read Malkin or powerline you can see that it isn’t just this one person that is afraid. Being afraid isn’t so bad, it’s being afraid and then acting on the fear rather than rationally discussing it with your countrymen and coming to a conclusion about what to do next. Usually reasonable responses might include something like “engage the people you are afraid of and discuss their position with them and learn more about them”. But, well, it seems this person Oliver quotes wants none of that. And in your second comment you address this and say ‘it exists’ and thus merits discussion. This is agreed. It shouldn’t be derided as people can be afraid of whatever the hell they want as you don’t usually have a say in the matter. Much like I don’t have a say in being afraid of the next 10 years because of what Bush has done with the country and you being afraid of an impending socialism if democrats come back into power. Maybe neither fear is actually warranted but we feel them nonetheless.
You do have to appreciate that frame’s initial comment was for nothing more than hyperbolic effect and I think it’s clear you do from the statement about ‘here we go again’. So, I apologize to you once again.