All That Good News From Iraq
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Civilians in Iraq Flee Mixed Areas as Killings Rise
The war in Iraq has entered a bloodier phase, with American casualties steadily declining over the past five months while the killings of Iraqi civilians have risen tremendously in sectarian violence, spurring tens of thousands of Iraqis to flee from mixed Shiite-Sunni areas.
The new pattern, detailed in casualty and migration statistics and in interviews with American commanders and Iraqi officials, has led to further separation of Shiite and Sunni Arabs, moving the country toward a de facto partitioning along sectarian and ethnic lines an outcome that the Bush administration has doggedly worked to avoid over the past three years.
(and no, “Yippeee they’re killing less Americans but more Iraqis” is not a great accomplishment, although I’m sure that’s certain to be the GOP spin ignoring the 2,300+ toll we’ve suffered to date)
U.S. helicopter crashes near Baghdad
A U.S. military helicopter crashed Saturday southwest of Baghdad, the military said in a statement.
“The status of the crew is unknown,” the brief statement said.
Officials said the helicopter was on a “combat air patrol” and came down at about 5:30 p.m. (9:30 a.m. ET).
Support for Iraqi Prime Minister Weakens
Leaders of the Shiite Muslim alliance that governs Iraq have given Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jafari until Sunday to convince his opponents he should retain his job in Iraq’s next government or be pushed aside, U.S. and Iraqi officials said.
In another sign that support for Jafari is weakening within his own Shiite coalition, independent lawmaker Qasim Dawoud on Saturday became the first member of the alliance to publicly call for Jafari to withdraw his nomination for prime minister.
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The views on this site are mine and mine alone, and do not reflect the views of my employer, Media Matters for America
© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
This story came with a warning: NO LIBERALS SHOULD READ THIS AS IT MIGHT CAUSE THEM TO THINK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN IRAQ.
http://tinyurl.com/j8pbl
OK, I’ll bite. This is good, why again? Of course it will be good if things work out as a net postive, but I can see a number of things hiding just below the surface of the message that we are supposed to take away from all this…
1. The security situation is sufficiently bad that otherwise regular “jus’ folks” Iraqis are having to join up in order to have a hope of defense, and they’re still sufficiently scared that they refuse to be identified.
2. Can we be certain how many of these people are planning to stay in the Army/Police, and how many are just joining up in order to get training on how to shoot a gun by hook or by crook, so they can then desert and join the insurgency/faction of their choice?
3. The employment situation is sufficiently bad that there isn’t much other option for many young Iraqis to find decent paying work other than joining the Army.
(Of course, this last point plays a big role in our recruitment efforts here as home as well, so I can’t say I’m altogether surprised…)
just curious, what exactly IS your point with this post OW?
Hmmm… for clear viewer participation, I should make it clear that I was quoting from Frank’s linked article above… sumimasen… ^__^;
Frank: The military posts an upbeat story about a war it’s involved in? That’s unprecedented.
Pedro: The point is that the right wing mythmaking about Iraq being nirvana is about as true as Howard Kaloogian’s pictures of Iraq.
“Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the annunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country,” V.
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
No “Gomennasai”? Don’t you like us?
When cynicism meets fanaticism
Now the comic quotes from comics: Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.
Rheinhard: To further clarify, the items marked 1, 2 and 3 were your opinions, were they not?
No further questions…
All the news coming out of Iraq makes a compelling case for an immediate pullout. Please read my post entitles “Disintegration in Iraq – A Call for Withdrawal” for an analysis of the situation and why pullout now is our best option.
“Rheinhard: To further clarify, the items marked 1, 2 and 3 were your opinions, were they not?
No further questions& ”
Whoa, Frank! Are you accusing Rheinhold of not simply taking your information as gospel? That he *gasp* thought about it and formed a *choke* different opinion? How dare he? How DARE he?
Its a long hard war that would cost the US nothing and where the people of Iraq would shower us with flowers.
love to see those two thoughts in the same sentence spoken by someone in the administration…..
Link please? How about you OW, gotta a good quote for us…I’ll just wait here watching hell freeze over…
Oliver, where has the right wing portrayed Iraq as Nirvana?
Never saw that memo. In fact, all I remember is Bush/Cheney et al e explaining this would be a long hard fight.
The idea that the wingers thought this would be a cakewalk is another tale from the dark(left)side. It doesn’t fly with reasonable people, but really riles up the folks that think that Michael Moore films “documentaries”
Paul Wolfowitz: “We re dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon”
Rumsfeld blames Iraq problems on “pockets of dead-enders”
Yes, points 1-3 were my take. My clarification came only because when I went back and looked at the first sentence of what I wrote, I thought it might not be clear what I was responding to.
One could certainly call my views “negative spin”. I think that’s a fair comment. However I think it’s equally fair to examine what was written in that article and examine how its content might be taking an observation (hundreds of young Iraqi men are joining the army in large measure because there are no other decent paying jobs to be found) and putting a “positive spin” on it (i.e., “look at all the men joining the Army! it’ll soon be big enough to keep the country stable, disproving any Iraq policy nay-sayers.”) The exact same factoid can mean diametrically opposed things to different people depending on the perspective one brings to its analysis.
Actually, no LB… I thought his needless reminder that he was quoting from the article (if you’re following the thread, you should know that; the blockquote makes it clear that it’s a quote) was an attempt to say, “The truth is contained in the article.”
I just wanted to clarify that it was his opinion of what was “in the article.”
Personally, I think he was saying, “Despite what the article said, I’m saying this.” It’s called “distortion.”
I think O’Reilly would call it “negative spin”.
wow, lucifer is putting on his iceskates! It sure is getting chilly down there.
Want to just admit that you made it up oliver,to try to back up whatever it was you thought was your point?
If people are joining the Army, that in itself is positive… It’s a direct action in a specific direction. I wasn’t adding a message to it. Why should you detract from it, pointing to an assumption.
I don’t know what the unemployment figures are for young Iraqis — I don’t think you do either — hence, there are no other decent paying jobs to be found, as opposed to “X amount of Iraqis are unemployed, Y amount of them young men.
Not knowing is not the problem, but if you don’t know, then how can you say that’s what motivates them to volunteer?
Incidentally, the same thing applies to American volunteers.
Unemployment is at an all time low here, but certain (left -wing?) people keep on pushing the unprovable point that American youngsters join the Armed Forces because they can’t get a good job, as if, a) There’s something wrong with them, and can’t get a good job, and / or b) The Army pays better than anything they can find, and / or c) They couldn’t possibly be joining the Army for a “good” reason.
zadura: Read it again…
If people are joining the Army, that in itself is positive& It s a direct action in a specific direction. I wasn t adding a message to it.
Shall I type it again?
Sheesh.
Even the chance of death for waiting in line for a paycheck can pale in comparison to death by starvation.
Sounds to me like you’ve never been in the service, or unemployed, or hungry.
Frank, if you are trying to insinuate that military recruiting efforts in Iraq are positive signs, you’ve obviously not been paying attention. First, there’s 40% unemployment mainly in the cities. Even the chance of death for waiting in line for a paycheck can pale in comparison to death by starvation. Second, this is one of two ways to get military training in Iraq so necessary for the escalating civil war. The other is to join a militia or the insurgency. Third, we are handing guns to people whom we think (hope) will be our friends, but this can change almost overnight.
I used to have very similar views with conservatives who argued against nation-building. It was the one issue that we could agree on. With conservatives suddenly willing to cede $1-2 trillion of our national treasure and let die thousands of our soldiers, I am afraid there is almost nothing left of that unity.
Frank, I am not sure what you want me to read again. A Marine website posts that there are Iraqis interested in joining the Iraqi armed forces. I gave you a framework to understand why this is both expected (due to unemployment) and strategically dangerous. Are you so lazy that you can’t even bring yourself to argue your point?
What is there to argue about… They are indeed volunteering. I don’t care if they’re joining because of the spiffy uniforms. I said, and I am (tired of) repeating: “If people are joining the Army, that in itself is positive& It s a direct action in a specific direction. I wasn t adding a message to it.”
Perhaps you’re stuck on the word “positive.” Maybe you’re thinking that “positive” means pro – Bush, or pro – administration, or pro – Republican. It doesn’t. It means positive, as opposed to nothing at all. It could easily be perceived as pro – Iraq, but you have reduced it to either materialistic reasons, or warlike reasons.
(Incidentally, you third possibilty suggests that young Iraqis are somehow involved in our plan. We are not “handing them guns,” they are joining the Iraqi armed forcesn — two very different things)
Your second point, whether you realize it or not, corroborates my point. We don’t know for sure who’s joining the terrorists, but we know it’s not the people who are joing the Army.
That’s the point. Volunteering for the Army, and subsequently the Police Force, must be seen as positive, because it helps the new Iraq, not because it gets the Bush administration a “gold star.”
Now, if you think it is necessary for me to understand your final paragraph, you might want to rephrase it.
I said the article came with a warning: You have not heeded that warning, nor did you act on it.
Frank writes:
“I don t know what the unemployment figures are for young Iraqis I don t think you do either hence, there are no other decent paying jobs to be found, as opposed to X amount of Iraqis are unemployed, Y amount of them young men. Not knowing is not the problem, but if you don t know, then how can you say that s what motivates them to volunteer?”
The article he linked to states:
“Those who made the cut had to say goodbye to friends who were rejected, but were happy none-the-less for their acceptance, which will bring them about $400 a month a substantial increase in wages for most of the young men, especially in rural western Iraq where unemployment is high.”
Really, Frank, do you even read the things you link to?
frameone, thank you for that find. I was about to redirect him to this:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A66151CB-2105-418B-BFAA-73211A631611.htm
http://www.itp.net/business/features/details.php?id=4085&category=
Frank, it is so frustrating arguing with you because you just don’t make any sense and don’t really have any well-thought positions. The Army and police force are only good if they are working for us. The new Iraq they seek is not the new Iraq that the U.S. seeks. I can’t put it to you any more plainly than that. Your failure to articulate a position is indicative of the weakness of your argument.
Oliver what was your point? You have a habit of posting things without any real comment, which is good when people turn the retrospectascope on you, but sort of cowardly.
Did you have a point, or was it straight schadenfraude?
“Why don t you stop badgering me, frame?”
Why don’t you stop making statements that are patently stupid? How could anyone suggest that unemployment is a motivating factor in Iraqis joining the army? Because the article you linked to suggests that unemployment is why young Iraqi men are joining the army. I mean really, what an idiot.
The article he linked to states
The third person implies you were talking about me. To whom, Paul?
To whom?
The vicious narcissistic sociopath is a real challenge to the therapist, but an educational experience, as well.
And the unemployment figure in the article (that I didn’t read) was?
Why don’t you stop badgering me, frame?
Jeebus, you’re a pain in the ass…
Go see a movie.
Better yet, here’s a study aid to help you with your orals…
“Bollocks!”
Okay. Whatever, Frank. You win. I throw in the towel. Stay an idiot the rest of your life.
Frank;
Instapundit made a similar comment weeks back regardiing how
it must be that Wal-Mart seeing so many job applicants in a small
town WHERE THERE ARE NO OTHER JOBS was somehow indicative
of the fact that unemployment is not so bad as the negative thinkers
seem to believe. I called him on it just as Frame called you on it
Frank. Get over. This is not your personal forum for excreting
all the anit-liberal bile you wish to expunge from yourself without
any challenge whatsoever. If you say it, be prepared to defend it.
And, oh yes, Paul, i know you’re not throwing in the towel. Far from it.
Browbeating me is way, way, WAY too important to you.
I’m your fixation, Paul, your obsession, your addiction.
I have a better idea, cleo and frameone: relax. Pestering people is not “calling them” on onything.
And you may rest assured, Paul, that I am as far from being an idiot as yoy are from being gracious, but there is no doubt in my mind that there is not a single thing to be learned from you.
What in the world have you taught anyone? You have disagreed with me, called me names, taunted me, badgered me to answer everyone of your nitpicking questions, but what have I learned from you?
I’ve learned a hell of a lot about you — none of it good, but nothing from you.
p.s. frameone: If that’s what the article says, then why are you hounding me about? What do you want from me?
Cleo: Where is this anti – liberal bile I spout? “If you say it, be prepared to defend it.” Is that something like when the guy with the thick black mustache says, “Tell us what we want to know, or you die”?
Damn, you guys are intense.
Why don t you stop badgering me, frame?
Uh, Frank?
Maybe if you would curb your pathological obsession with this blog, quit your deliberate bear-baiting, your ad homenim attacks, spin, outright lies and just plain bad faith antagonizing of anyone who disagrees with you, most of the people who read this blog wouldn’t constantly feel the need to choke the living crap out of you and thus post responses that may sometimes hurt your feelings.
But mostly, it wouldn’t hurt if you would just get away from the computer and take a break from this blog for a few days.
Christ on a pogo stick, Frank! I have never seen such an obsessed and obsessive blog commenter in all my life. You are EVERYWHERE on this blog, in almost every thread. Day and night. Weekend and weekday. On this thread alone you’ve posted 11 messages over the course of 24 hours.
What the hell?
Matty: I truly appreciate your comments. However, you need to understand that it isn’t “most of the people who read this blog.”
It’s Paul Malcolm, aka frameone, who is the bane of my existence. There are very few people on this blog who are unaware of that.
No one on this blog even approaches his relentless harassment, his insulting, uncouth, arrogant and condescending behavior.
I have asked several people on this blog to search the threads for evidence of one time I’ve insulted someone before they insulted me. Not one person has found one example.
You don’t even know me, and before you could get around to expressing your “concern,” you felt compelled to accuse me of “deliberate bear-baiting.. ad homenim attacks, spin, outright lies and just plain bad faith antagonizing of anyone who disagrees with you.” You then followed that with the mistaken observation that “most of the people who read this blog … constantly feel the need to choke the living crap out of [me].”
Of course, your answer is that I “should take a break from this blog for a few days.”
I’ve taken a break from this blog for a few months in the past, and you know what? It was like I had just returned from the bathroom.
Maybe if there was someone on this blog who called themselves liberal, who acted like one, I might believe them.
If only…
Semanticleo, frame, the best thing to do is ignore frank. He obviously is missing something in his life, and in my opinion is here looking for attention that he isn’t getting somewhere else. You can tell by the way he constantly lets pieces of personal information on this board, like someone cares, or should care.
I’m going to try my best to ignore him, so that he may seek out real solutions to his problems. Remember, the more the baby is ignored, the more he will scream, so resist the urge and maybe he’ll learn to be civil.
Hey pedro –
I think the point of Oliver’s post is that you better get over to Baghdad ASAP to teach people your awesome terrorist stopping ninja skills so they can defend themselves against this:
“In Baghdad’s Dora district, four gunmen charged into a Shiite home late Sunday, lined up a brother, two sisters, and an uncle against a wall and shot them dead, police said.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060403/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=ArJ.uy2I8o8pq1aQ9Mc2P0tvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA–
factcheck: Do you ever get anything right?
Your “Lucy from Peanuts” psychiatry would have clients asking for their quarter back.
I was very clearly making a point that I actually do have other things to do with my life than to humor the madman frameone.
There was no hint that I expected someone to “care” about my problems.
Along with about 5 other people, I am in a nest of liberals. I have long ago — and I mean long ago — seen through the hypocricy of “liberal tolerance”, even in its most recent incarnation at the (NYT sponsored) aBuzz, going back to 2001.
But did you proofread the last paragraph? Were you sleepy? Drugged? Drunk?
Remember, the more the baby is ignored, the more he will scream, so resist the urge and maybe he ll learn to be civil.
You should have issued a “beverage alert” with that sentence!
Ignoring me will make me more civil?
What will make you more civil? {I already know that nothing will make frameone more civil — “It ain’t in ‘im”, and cleo is just a blowhard, who thinks obscurantism combined with the use of polysyllabic words is a sign of intelligence.
Pedro,
Did this also happen over the same weekend in Richmond Virginia:
The U.S. military also said two American pilots were killed Saturday when their Apache helicopter crashed during combat operations southwest of Baghdad, adding that the aircraft was probably shot down.
Two soldiers also were killed by a roadside bomb late Saturday in central Baghdad, while another died of non-hostile related injuries suffered Thursday near the northern city of Kirkuk, according to the U.S. command.
Elsewhere, a car bombing in Baghdad’s eastern Shiite slum of Sadr City on Monday killed at least two civilians and wounded six others, including a 9-year-old boy, while four people were wounded when a car bomb struck the central district of Karradah in the capital.
Six people a navy officer, two policemen, two workers at an electrical plant and a boy were killed by drive-by shooters in a market area of the southern city of Basra, police said.
North of the capital in Nibaie, gunmen killed two truck drivers and kidnapped another while they were carrying construction materials to the U.S. military base in Balad, police said.
Drive-by shooters killed a police captain outside his home late Sunday in Baghdad’s Dora neighborhood, police said.
Police also discovered three bodies in eastern Baghdad neighborhoods. One in Mashtal was handcuffed and shot in the head, another in Baladiyat was strangled and covered with bandages, and the third was found in Sadr City, shot in the forehead.
Police also discovered two bodies in eastern Baghdad one in Mashtal that was handcuffed and shot in the head, another in Baladiyat that was strangled and covered with bandages.
Violence between Shiite and Sunni Muslims has escalated since the Feb. 22 bombing of an important Shiite shrine in Samarra, which led to reprisal attacks against the rival sect.
Bombings in Buhriz also damaged several buildings including a barber shop and grocery store in a market district of the town, which is a former
Saddam Hussein stronghold about 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, police said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060403/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=ArJ.uy2I8o8pq1aQ9Mc2P0tvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA%E2%80%93
hey paul, maybe we should see if oliver has a point….
Per your storyline, the same thing happened in virginia last year
As an FBI profiler I had seen horrific crime scenes and found dead bodies myself, but when investigators entered the home of Bryan, age 49, and Kathryn, age 39, Harvey and their two beautiful daughters, Ruby, 4, and Stella, 9, it was a crime scene from hell.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10723608/
So what is your freaking point, movie boy?
by the way paul, where is the link to your new, updated website we were told was coming?
Still working out the details?
It continues:
“Finally, there’s the most important trend of all. How successful have Iraqis been in creating a civil society. This doesn’t get much media play either, yet it is the ultimate goal in Iraq. A civil society is one that can run its own affairs without the constant threat of civil war or dictatorship. We take civil society for granted in the West, but in the rest of the world, it is more notable by its absence. American and British diplomats have been hammering away at the Iraqis for three years about how important honest government it. Many Iraqis agree. Yet the corruption continues, and three months after national elections, the various parties cannot agree on who will get what, and there is no government. That’s because the lack of a civil society has the various ethnic, religious and tribal factions warily haggling over who gets what. There is not much trust, and the stealing goes on. Iraq’s fate will ultimately be decided by how many honest politicians it has, not how many cops are on the street or what Iraq’s neighbors think or do.”
So in the same paragraph this guy asserts that Iraqis have been succesful in creating a civil society but its having problems because of Iraq’s “lack of a civil society.” So where exactly is evidcence of the “most important trend” in Iraq? The guy doesn’t give any. Indeed, he adds: “There is not much trust, and the stealing goes on.”
Oh, my god, you guys are dumb, dumb, dumb. Really, everyone should follow Pedro’s advice and read this tripe, it’s a true fact-free font of idiocy.
Do you have a point paul? Or is this just your idea of fun?
Unfortunatley the important things are hard….they require time, patience and comittment. Tough for a guy that writes movie reviews for a free newspaper to understand, but that is the nature of life for a grown-up: Patience and comittment.
What you see in the Iraq news, is not what you get. The news business demands startling headlines, to attract eyeballs. It’s business, as the eyeballs are rented to advertisers to pay for it all. But the reality of the news is less startling, and consists of trends. These are the current trends in Iraq.
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/iraq/articles/20060402.aspx
go read the rest yourself, though I doubt it will do you any good.
Hi Fact!
Speak when spoken to boy….
“Still working out the details?”
All in good time. You can always read my film reviews at the LA Weekly whenever you want:
http://www.laweekly.com/video-store-burnout/13012/dream-on-silly-dreamer/
What happened to pointing us to all the peer-reviewed work you’ve claimed to have done?
Still working out the details?
How about the one that proves that illegal aliens increase the crime rate? Still working out the details?
Oh and Pedro, that link leads to the dumbest, shallowest, most inane commentary on our present situation in IRaq Ihave ever read. Really, everyone should read it to know where the best and brightest of the conservative troll community are going to for their analysis. Here’s how it begin:
“After three years, the Sunni Arabs, who long dominated Iraq, most recently under the leadership of Saddam Hussein, are giving up. It took so long because of a quirk in Arab culture, one that encourages the support of lost causes. The term “cut your losses and move on” is not as popular in the Arab world as it is in the West. But even the slow learners in the Sunni Arab community had to finally confront some unfavorable trends.”
Lord have mercy.
Well, at least they analyse. Versus saying”it’s dumb” and then quoting it, followed by a snarky “lord have mercy”
Seems to be a leftist trend, bash the ideas, without any formal critique or back up. When you don’t have any good ideas of your own, the criticise the people who do and move on as if you have actually made a point or something.
It is clear why you like being a movie critic paul….just mindless spewing of your opinion….how …..narcissistic of you…..oh, and boring too!
Paul, what exactly are you getting a PhD in by the way? I have a couple of good guesses, but….would love the confirmation
“t least they analyse”"
You can’ be serious.
what is that PhD in by the way?
oh, yes, I am serious.
You really are a tedious person….you just ask rhetorical questions over and over again. Like I said, a trend with lefties, that whay you can play it back any way you like when the future bites you in the ass…I notice Ollie likes it too…he still hasn’t responded to exactly what HIS point in this post was either.
“You really are a tedious person& .you just ask rhetorical questions over and over again.”
Pedro, how about this. Go to the article you linked to and find for me what you consider the most penetrating, the most incisive, the most critical point. Identify that sentence or paragraph where the article reaches its rehtorical peak. Find it and post it here and we’ll discuss it.
I guess we can take that as a non-response response. Come on, pedro, tell us what you think is the most convincing, penetrating, significant section of the article. Post it here and we’ll discuss it.
…bash the ideas…
Sorry, I couldn’t find any ideas in that piece. I found conflicting statments and really bad writing.
Is this the trend on the right? Put forth statements that meander, contradict themselves and make no clearly defined point? Perhaps that is the window to plausible deniability. when they called on it, they can honestly say I didn’t say that.
amazing, you are dialogueing with one leftist troll, yet answered by all the rest of their pack.
You should know by now, Dr. that when you post stuff up here you are dialoging with all. If not, try IM in a private room or something.
Now, I belive MR. frame asked you a question…
Pedro, the article is completely uncited and has numerous self-contradictions. When that is the case, the burden of proof is not on the person critiquing the position. The reason they they teach logic in a lot of humanities programs is that if your argument isn’t logical, it can’t even be considered. We don’t need to do a line by line counterpoint on an article that is poorly written, factually questional, self-contradicting, and more a less a big steaming pile of horseshit. If you actually want to point us to something that cites its sources and doesn’t contradict itself 3-4 time per paragraph, then maybe we’ll bother to answer it more carefully.
Toodles.
amazing, you are dialogueing with one leftist troll, yet answered by all the rest of their pack.
Curious….is it some sort of self-defense mechanism? or just a form of “piling on” because they realize their arguments are unconvincing.
Hey wolfie, try saying “don t need to do a line by line counterpoint on an article that is poorly written, factually questional, self-contradicting, and more a less a big steaming pile of horseshit.” in one of your vaunted “humanities” courses in college (oh, you didn’t GO to college did you?).
See what happens…..
I think that article was written by drunks for other drunks.
Gee, an unsigned article on a conspiracy site by and for cheeto-eating 15-year olds says that we (who is this “we”) should stay the course in Iraq.
Well, I’m convinced. 101st Keyboarders onward! Who is with me? Hello? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Is that all you’ve got, or is there an article on stormfront.org or cnsnews with irrefutable truths that you want us to look at?
MMMMMMM, more good news from Iraq. Iraq’s oil exports have gone unmetered for the last 3 years. That’s right, the CPA did not meter the oil exports from Iraq and it is still unmeasured today. It seems we couldn’t even get rid of the oil for food.
factcheck: Are you ever right? {see “About Us”. (It’s surprise, surprise!) about the authors}
Here’s a bio on one of the cheetos – eating* 15 year olds:
http://jimdunnigan.com/bio.htm#top
*Eating cheetos is undoubtedly a sign of a lack of intelligence and / or sophistication in the World of Fastcheck — are you a Fritos man?
A kid gets up one day wanders into the bathroom to take care of his morning business and is shocked and horrified to see his penis has turned a bright orange. AHHHHH!
He tells his sister in confidence. She just looks at him funny, giggles a little and says “I guess you better go see a doctor.”
On the way to school he tells his friend about it in confidence. “My penis is orange”. His friend busts out laughing at him. “I guess you better go see a doctor.”
He runs back home. “Mom, I have to go to the doctor! My penis is orange!” She laughs and agrees to take him to the doctor.
In the examining room at the doctor, the doctor starts asking him questions:
Has your penis ever turned orange before? “No.”
When did this occur? “Over night, I noticed it in the morning.”
What did you do last night? “Well, I went to my room, watched a porno, masturbated and ate Cheetos.”
Cheetos FrankD.
Good post Frank, but as you realize, these guys prefer to attempt to discredit the source before they even look at what it says.
Oliver has quite an echo chamber going in here.
midderpidge: Is that a well – known joke I’m supposed to know?
If it is, I think you spoiled it.
My rewrite from “What did you do last night?”
“I was eatin’ Cheetos and watching a porno movie.”
The rest, implied, is funnier without being said.
“Oliver has quite an echo chamber going in here.”
And you have yet to identify the most compelling argument made by the article you linked to. I’ve identified what I think is the stupidest point in the whole article: the flat out contradiction of the last paragraph in which “the most significant trend” in Iraq is both identified as happening and denied.
Other brainstorms include the the notion that Arabs don’t have a word for quit which is why the insurgency has gone on so long but, of course, neither do Americans, which is why we are winning. Okay.
Then there’s the repeated celebration of MORE violence as a sign that the violence will soon subside:
“Many of these people want revenge, and they all have guns. Many, especially those that belong to the police, or militias, are taking their revenge. The Sunni Arabs want protection, for they cannot muster enough guns to defend themselves. Now the Sunni Arabs want the Americans to stay, at least until there’s some assurance that the Kurd and Shia Arab vengeance attacks have died down.”
I’m sorry, what? Where’s the evidence that Sunni Arabs want us to stay to protect them from the Shiites that they’ve been killing for three years? Is the guy basically arguing that revenge killings are a good thing for Iraq? Where’s the evidence that the insurgency can no longer stage it’s own attacks or keep itself supplied? This statement flies in the face of the death toll in Iraq which reached 900 civilians last month.
Or how about this gem:
“They have noticed that if you attack the Americans, chances are you will die, and the Americans will just keep on keeping on. It used to be that the Sunni Arabs could take heart from the occasional attack where they killed a few Americans. But no longer. Everyone knows the trend, and doesn’t want to be another victim of it.”
Really? The insurgents always knew that attacking Americans would lead to their deaths, that’s why they use guerilla and terrorist tactics instead of direct assaults. At the same time, attacks on US forces have slowed while attacks on civilians have gone up. Here’s a report from today’s Seattle Times:
“A suicide bomber rammed a pickup truck filled with explosives hidden in dates into a Shiite mosque in Baghdad on Monday, killing at least 10 Iraqis … Some witnesses of Monday’s truck-bomb attack described the mosque as a bastion of followers of al-Sadr, whose militia has been accused of kidnapping Sunni Arabs and attacking Sunni mosques in retaliation for attacks against Shiites.”
It’s more of the same. Here’s an article about GOOD news from Mosulwhich nevertheless is forced to include this:
“To be sure, things here remain precarious. Insurgent attacks continue apace. Improvised explosive devices (IEDs) are a daily concern. Prominent politicians and their families have been targeted time and again. University professors are afraid to talk to the media. Residents complain of frequent kidnappings and gunfire in the streets.
“It’s a little better now, but I still don’t leave my home unless I have to for work,” says Saleh Ahmed, an Iraqi police officer. “No one is safe still.” As if to hammer home his point, Mr. Ahmed sits in the front seat of a blue and white police pick-up truck with a blown-out windshield and pockmarked doors, the scars of a recent IED attack.”
That’s a freakin police officer talking!
THen there’s this from your article:
“But now the Sunni Arabs have noted that much of the country is getting wealthier even without the oil. The Sunni Arabs have been living off oil for so long that they forgot there are other ways to make a living.”
Really? And where are the facts and figures to back this up? As other posters have noted, the unemployment rate in Iraq is approaching 40 percent.
From the artcile linked to by z_adura above:
“Much of the Iraqi population has seen no palpable benefits in the way that they live their lives. And both those inside and outside Iraq point to a deterioration in pre-war standards. Some would even argue that the vast majority of Iraqis are poorer today. And, with rampant unemployment estimated to be as high as 40%, there is little to dissuade Iraqis from joining the ranks of a bloody insurgency.
Economics has a lot to do with helping Iraq settle down and get on with a better life. Without jobs and without some economic development Iraq will be locked in its furore and depression longer than needs be, says Paul Sullivan, a professor at the National Defense University and Georgetown University.
It has been very difficult to make any realistic progress either with physical reconstruction or with any kind of administrative or economic reform programme with the security situation so fraught, says David Butter of the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU). The programmes that were envisaged in the early part of the post war period have all been very difficult to implement and there has not been that much that has come through to replace them. ”
Now would you like to debate any of these points?
Whatever Frank, I never said it was a great joke, but it was a Cheetos joke and that was what I was in the market for.
“Oliver has quite an echo chamber going in here.”
It seems that way when your head is hollow. Now, do you care to debate Frame’s points or are you going to run away from the thread like you did when I challenged you?
***crickets*****
Hey look, analysis with actual numbers:
The rate of killings in Iraq is already as bad as during the horrendous 1975-1991 Lebanese Civil War, in which 150,000 to 200,000 people were killed over 16 years — an average of between 9,375 and 12,500 people were killed there per year.
These comparisons, of course, can be misleading because in those conflicts, as in almost all civil wars, the rate of killing is not uniform but explodes in peaks and then settles down at lower levels for long periods of time.
But the comparisons are unfortunately revealing in another way — once the kind of polarizing aimless cycle of sectarian retaliatory killings between paramilitary forces in the two communities that have lived together for many centuries begins, it is often impossible to end it for decades, or before hundreds of thousands of people have been killed or, as was the case in Lebanon, both disasters have happened.
http://www.wpherald.com/print.php?StoryID=20060403-030211-9401r
Oliver –
A polite request. Is there any way you could round up some decent trolls for this site of yours? The quality of trollery around here is just abysmal. Is there some kind of service you could look into, maybe Rent-a-Troll? Seriously. What do you have to do to find a conervative troll with even an ounce of brains or integrity who won’t disappear the minute someone calls them on their bullshit only to return later with empty non-sequitors and whiny cries of victimhood? Does such a creature even exist? Anyway, maybe it’s something you could look into. Thanks.
If they had an ounce of brains or integrity, they wouldn’t be conservative trolls, now would they? There are a few wingers here who have some semblance of a brain, but on the other hand one has to wonder why one would spend their time on a blog whose owner’s views are in such stark contrast to their own.
I don’t post on conservative boards. Then again, most of them don’t allow comments, and most of the ones that do don’t allow ANY dissenting opinions.
factcheck: Please, get one thing right, before you die.
… most of them don t allow comments, and most of the ones that do don t allow ANY dissenting opinions…
Puhleeeeze
Hey pedro, you wanted to compare Baghdad to Richmond, Virginia? Well now you can compare it to other American cities as well:
“In the 29-day period following the mosque attack, 955 people were murdered in Baghdad province, which includes the capital city and its outskirts, according to the U.S. military.
That’s more than the number of murders in New York City, San Francisco, Miami, Atlanta, Boston and Seattle combined for all of 2004, according to the FBI. Those cities have a combined population of 10.8 million, compared with Baghdad province’s 7 million.
An additional 146 Baghdad residents were killed in bombings during that period, according to the U.S. military.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060404/ts_usatoday/civilianstakeuparmsamidiraqiviolence
What we need here is to weed out the badgers. who turn every thread into a relentless — and, boy, do I mean relentless — bogus “search for the truth.”
You know, like those tedious guys in bars who get drunk, and want to talk about why Truman shouldn’t have “fired” McArthur?
But frame, you’ve got to realize that there is no violence in most of Iraq- the part of Iraq where no people are present. So really, “Dr” Pee is right.
Jesus paul, take a beta blocker man…
Let me see if I can summarize…a real challenge with someone with writing skills as poor as yours…but here we go…
“paul statement (repeat for about 3 pages), quote the article….where is the evidence”?
Then quote something showing that the violent death rate in a war zone is worse than new york…no question, no statement, nothing.
Paul, unlike the free-newspaper movie review section, or the “doctoral committee” for a sociology degree, discussion and argument require some sort of synthesis of information, crafting an idea. I’m sorry, but your incoherent babble just doesn’t qualify…no matter HOW many times you post…or how many of your “collegues” try to goad me on various threads….(I would comment here about people fighting their own battles but I suspect character issues are lost on our resident leftists…)
I don t post on conservative boards. Then again, most of them don t allow comments, and most of the ones that do don t allow ANY dissenting opinions.
I tried it once. It made me feel dirty.
One of you guys should go and post a liberal comment (a stretch, I know) on one of these conservative sites and see how long you last. It’s like wathcing a pack of hyenas on a carcass.
yea duros, unlike this place….! ROFLMAO
Yeah, but at least we have a sense of humor and we don’t (well, I don’t, at least) hope you die a nasty death.
Still waiting for Pee-dro to answer Frame’s question- oh, well, Pee-dro, you are now in my cone of silence.
Hey duros wait a sec. Wasn’t someone here hoping limbaugh choked on his own vomit and died?
but thanks for not wishing a nasty death on me!
well “fact” you are out of my “circle of confidence”!
{whatever….}
“I m sorry, but your incoherent babble just doesn t qualify& no matter HOW many times you post& or how many of your collegues try to goad me on various threads& .”
So you got nothing?