’)As many of you know, Frank Disalle is a regular (and I mean regular) commenter on OW.Com. I find his argument about the importance of the immigration issue compelling. Compelling, for how blatant it is
The debate now seems to be centered on the presence of 11 million illegal immigrants.
When it will be centered on the disappearance of white power?
Will it even matter?How will white people handle being a minority?
What if English becomes a second language, as it did in Quebec?
These questions will, at some time, require answers.
As I responded:
How will white people handle being a minority?
HEAVEN FORBID that happen. HEAVEN FORBID white Americans have to exist the way non-white Americans have had to for hundreds of years. Surely, there s no way anyone can exist without being in the majority. Those people who aren t in the majority race are certainly not like THE REST OF US!!!
The connection between the “Minutemen” and David Duke don’t seem quite so stretched anymore, do they? Discuss.
And, you neglected to mention this comment by me:
Allow me to go first:
I don’t think I have ever been as completely misinterpreted as I just was by that previous comment. [Not even by frameone, and that's saying something]
I certainly said no such thing, and by no means did I mean such a thing.
I realize that I have opened a huge can of worms by actually admitting that there are races on earth, and that Americans have a culture (two different items, by the way). But I have no problem with that.
In my view, to acknowledge that there are races on this planet — there have been for quite a while, you know — is not even racism, let alone a crime.
And I AM NOT SAYING, nor did I EVER SAY that non – whites are “so dumb that we ve got to keep white people in the majority to preserve the natural order of things” [notice that I did not repeat the absurd usage "we brownies", first because it is so repulsive, and second, I sometimes wonder if a "real" person of color would want you included in the "we").
Actually, I was saying two OTHER things. You missed them both. People like Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson already make quite a comfortable living demonizing whitey. Can you imagine their rhetoric when "the devil" is in the minority?
And, two, there are white racists and white supremacists out there. Many of them are armed, and pass themselves off as militias. What do you think their reaction will be to being in the minority? Do you even care? And, if you even care -- and I suspect you don't -- have you even given it a thought? I suspect you haven't.
And, if your reading skills in any way matched your skill at hyperbole, you might have noticed that I said, "When will it [the debate] be centered on the disappearance of white power?” This means, for the reading impaired, that I was asking about when it occurs, not suggesting that it should be prevented.
I repeat, talking about race is neither racism, nor a crime.
Anywhoo, let the flogging begin. I promise you all, that I will not post in this thread again. If what I expect to happen, happens (and I am certain you will not disappoint), it would serve no purpose.
So — have a nice day!
Frank
Genetically there is only one race it is called the human race.
What if English becomes a second language, as it did in Quebec?
“Becomes”? When was English ever the majority language in Quebec?
“I sometimes wonder if a real person of color would want you included in the we ).”
Hey whitey, what’s a “real” person of color? I think we’re all interested.
And about your assuming Sharpton and Jackson have called white people the “devil”. Have they? Or do all black people just hate whitey unless they’re one of the “good” ones?
What don’t you get?
Wrong Jay – as of 2000 69.1%… the plurality will occur over the next several decades.
I’m not going to attack Frank the way I do on the other threads- I think his statement should stand alone as evidence of the ignorance, fear, and bigotry that permeates his worldview.
Most of us, including me, have our sore spots and places where we are less than tolerant to different groups, often based on race, ethnicity, and preference.
The difference between most conservatives like Frank and most liberals is that conservatives tolerate, and sometimes try to justify their prejudice, sometimes with their religion.
Liberals fight their own prejudices and prejudices of others, as we find them.
MJB:
I’m floored. I’ve heard that “the white population has dropped below 50%” so many times, I didn’t even question it. I looked at the link you cited, and I’m wondering how the hell that truism I tossed off came about. I notice that they don’t break down the races beyond white/black/asian, with the Latino carved out, so my first thought was that some of those lumped in with “white” are ones not considered white by the general populace — such as Arabic. That would acount for some of the discrepancy, but the difference is about 50% greater than the Latino or black population figures, and I can’t believe that those groups would actually make up 19% of the total.
mjb, you appear to eviscerated my opening point, and it appears I was dead wrong on that part. I (reluctantly) appreciate your correcting me, and I think I better do some serious digging on that topic before I weigh in on that again.
I stand by the latter point, though. The blurring of the line between LEGAL immigration and ILLEGAL immigration is a dishonest tactic, and using it for more of Oliver’s trademark race-baiting is doubly despicable.
It also reminds me of a bit of hypocrisy on our host’s part. Why does he draw such a distinction between documented and undocumented commenters here? (I’m sorry, “registered” and “unregistered.”) After all, isn’t everyone entitled to the same benefits of commenting, regardless of how they found their way to this page?
J.
Jaytea
Whites are NOT the majority race in the United States, and haven t been for some time. We are the PLURALITY, but no single race makes up over 50% of the population.
For this statement, Jaytea receives my nomination for Asshat of the Month. Congratulations, Jaytea. You may even take the crown away from Frank and Peedro this time!
Jay,
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html
White persons, not of Hispanic/Latino origin, percent, 2000 69.1%.
Before you pop off calling people idiots for not knowing the facts, first, shut the fuck up, second, think and research.
(Previous retraction awaiting moderation)
I think I’ve figured out where I made my error. It isn’t WHITES that are now less than half the population, it’s MALES. The country is now 50.9% female. mjb, you were correct, and that link showed me where I made my error. Thanks.
I knew that one of the categories where I get lumped into the “oppressive majority” was history, I was just mistaken about which one it was.
I still stand by my other point, though, and I’ll repeat it from the comment awaiting moderation:
The blurring of the line between LEGAL immigration and ILLEGAL immigration is a dishonest tactic, and using it for more of Oliver s trademark race-baiting is doubly despicable.
It also reminds me of a bit of hypocrisy on our host s part. Why does he draw such a distinction between documented and undocumented commenters here? (I m sorry, registered and unregistered. ) After all, isn t everyone entitled to the same benefits of commenting, regardless of how they found their way to this page?
J.
“you might have noticed that I said, When will it [the debate] be centered on the disappearance of white power? This means, for the reading impaired, that I was asking about when it occurs, not suggesting that it should be prevented.”
Why even express concern about the feelings of white supremacists, as if it’s a valid point of view that needs a light shined on it? White supremacists are not a concern for moral people. They didn’t earn their superiority, it was given to them on the backs of others. They are wrong and evil and stupid. If it came down to a violent confrontation those of us who agree with OW would welcome it, but before and after we wouldn’t give them a second of concern.
Speaking as one of the Dreaded White Master Race (which, dagnabit, doesn’t seem to affect my pay grade — I live paycheck to paycheck), I’d like to point out Oliver’s glaring stupidity. Whites are NOT the majority race in the United States, and haven’t been for some time. We are the PLURALITY, but no single race makes up over 50% of the population.
But why let facts get in the way of a good race-baiting, right, Ollie? Especially when it gives you the chance to further promulgate the confusion between LEGAL immigration (which nearly everyone supports) and ILLEGAL immigration (which only idiots and yourself — but I repeat myself — back).
You don’t like the current immigration laws? CHANGE THEM. But quit pissing and moaning about how “unfair” it is to actually enforce them.
J.
“Before you pop off calling people idiots for not knowing the facts, first, shut the fuck up, second, think and research.”
Do you understand that radical reorientation of Jay’s universe that this would require? He’d never survive the procedure.
As for Frank, well, what can one say that hasn’t already been said? In one breath he insists that “Our language, our systems, our entertainment, our food, our religions, are all the result of contributions by immigrants.” In the next he insists that we must protect that culture from immigrants: “Pretending that there is no American culture to protect is hiding your head in the sand.”
Frank insists that he’s been misinterpreted, which may indeed be true, but only because he himself has no idea what he’s trying to say. The man is a dumb ass of spectacular proportions.
Liberals fight their own prejudices and prejudices of others, as we find them.
Oh bullshit. White liberals (a good number of them, but not all) propensity for prejudice is simply manifested in different ways that are usually condescending (IE, a certain type of government program is needed because they “know” that “those people” cannot do whatever it is by themselves) towards minorities.
Their out and out racism is simply hidden from others and they don’t try a lick to fight it. I’ll bet big bucks that guys like factcheck are the kind that cross the street if they see a few black guys walking towards them. I can’t count how many liberals I’ve come across who talk about more affordable housing for minorities as long as that affordable housing isn’t anywhere near where they live. There are other examples as well.
I won’t argue that conservatives aren’t behind the curve when it comes to racial issues, but please, stop pretending as though liberals are this enlightened, anointed bunch that have halos over their head or that despite your own prejudices, you’re fighting them every day because that’s a bald faced lie.
“It also reminds me of a bit of hypocrisy on our host s part. Why does he draw such a distinction between documented and undocumented commenters here?”
Oh the humanity. It’s fascinatng just how naturally victimhood comes to conservatives.
“frame, nice dodge.”
Same to ya. Who, exactly, is trying to blur the lines between legal and illegal immigration and how are they doing it?
And Oliver once again attempts to smear the Minutemen as a bunch of Klan idiots when all they are doing is reporting to authorities when people are illegally crossing the border from Mexico to the United States. The damned racists! Calling the authorities when somebody is breaking the law! How dare they! They have broken ZERO laws nor have they violated anybody’s civil rights. I challenged you last time you tried to smear them to come up with some evidence of your charges and you couldn’t. The challenge still stands.
By the way, the MMP also has people watching the northern border as well. Is there any organization that has a history of being anti-Canadian than you can compare them to?
This is from Frank’s original post:
“Our culture is at stake& We are not simply a nation of immigrants . We are a nation of assimilated immigrants. Our language, our systems, our entertainment, our food, our religions, are all the result of contributions by immigrants. They have altogether produced an American culture which is not only unique, it is imitated around the world, even in the country that once colonized us.”
Aside from the first five words, it’s an articulate statement of how I think most of us view America and the role of immigration.
But those first five words express also express the view of a lot of people who seem to equate American culture with white culture. And from other posts, it seems there’s a fear that Blacks, Latinos, etc. will want to extract some sort of revenge on whites if and when they the majority over whites.
I agree illegal immigration is a huge problem. But it is impractical and probably undesirable to attempt to deport all eleven million (the latest estimated cost of doing so I heard is $206 billion). I agree with many of the proposed solutions posted elsewhere.
I live in Houston, a city of 1.9 million people that is 30% white, 30% black, and 30% hispanic, and 10% Asian, Middle Eastern, and other. I work with persons from Columbia, New Zealand, Australia, Sweden, China, and Romania. They are all accomplished good hearted people.
Two icons in Houston are the late Ninfa Laurentes and Jim MacInvale (I hope I’m spelling their last names correctly). “Mama” Ninfa opened a small restaurant in downtown Houston in the early ’70’s. She pretty much invented the fajita, opened a chain of restaurants, spoke at a Republican national convention, and, I’m sure, died a wealthy woman. “Mattress Mac” is a white male who opened a discount furniture store in the ’80s. He’s apparently read every book Edward Deming (the quality control expert) ever wrote. Through customer service, low prices, and a ton of locally famous cheesy commercials, he’s now a gazillionaire.
mjb, you appear to eviscerated my opening point, and it appears I was dead wrong on that part. I (reluctantly) appreciate your correcting me, and I think I better do some serious digging on that topic before I weigh in on that again.
Now that is what I like to see, and something Frank can perhaps learn from. Someone who was mistaken/wrong, proved as such and graciously accepted that fact.
However, as Frank has noted previously; And facts don t bother me in the slightest I m not a liberal.
I take back what I said about Dr. Pedro. Frank is the newly appoitned Supreme Benevloent Ruler and Presidente-for-Life of the Sovereign nation of Asshatistan.
I force registration because I was simply tired of drive-by comments of people impersonating other people, leaving all sorts of epithets, etc.
frame, nice dodge. But you’ll note that I actually DID follow the rules and DID become a “documented commenter.” No whining, just an observation. But why does Oliver discriminate against those who just want to speak their mind without going through all the rigamarole and jumping through the arbitrary hoops?
J.
“C mon Frame, at least he has the chutzpah to admit his information (and his gut feelings ) was wrong.”
Oh you’ve got to be kidding me. Shall I repost an email I once received from Jay that demonstrates his grace and humility in all its glory?
Frank:
factcheck: I m not going to attack Frank the way I do on the other threads- I think his statement should stand alone as evidence of the ignorance, fear, and bigotry that permeates his worldview.
You missed the bolded part: I didn’t say I wouldn’t attack you, I just said I wouldn’t attack you the same way. And you should forgive Frame and BGA, they knew you are such a diva that you couldn’t stay away from this
thread when you are the subject.
JT gave you some competition upthread, but I think you have retained Asshat of the Month honors for March. Congratulations!
Too classic.
I’m sorry, but I forgot this classic comment:
factcheck: I m not going to attack Frank the way I do on the other threads- I think his statement should stand alone as evidence of the ignorance, fear, and bigotry that permeates his worldview.
I wonder what you could possibly have said that you didn’t say already would have said if you “attacked me”? Ordered me to Australia? Oh, wait… That’s JK. No, wait… That’s you and JK.
And Frank, are you saying white people have something to fear from Al Sharpton and Farrakhan if they become the minority? Because that doesn’t make any g-d sense either.
My amazement at this line of thought is that even though blacks, hispanics, asians and others have some how gotten along as racial minorities in America for hundreds of years, somehow the system’s going to fall down if white people are no longer the majority race.
“Frauds like Sharpton and Farrakhan have made a very good living for themselves demonizing the white power structure. What will they do if whites were a minority?”
And you idiots keep confusing power with demographics. One need only look to Hussein’s Iraq to find an example of minority population that dominated the rest of the country. Typcially that takes brutal repression.
Frank has totally confused American culture with “White Culture,” a culture he depicts as embattled, endangered and in need of protection. Where’s he going with that do you think?
So, listening to Air America all day yesterday, I learned that illegal immigration is going to be the downfall of our country. That seemed to be a common theme from Garafolo, to Seder, to Malloy. Are they corporatists and racists too ?
It was only a matter of time before some right-wign nut said it:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/03/29.html#a7714
Remember the Alamo!
If the Supreme Leader decided to go to war to against Mexico, would the right support him?
“I m floored. I ve heard that the white population has dropped below 50% so many times, I didn t even question it.”
Of course, you didn’t Jay. Of course, you didn’t. Just like every other right wing talking you’ve swallowed and regurgitated with nary a thought. One of the classic right wing talking points is that liberals appeal to emotion and conservatives appeal to reason. This is the kind of mental masturbation that gets passed off as common sense on the right. But here, yet again, we have a classic example of a right wing dipshit believing something because it “feels” right and because it’s been repeated over and over. Even in the face of the facts you can’t resist a stab at amateur demographics because, darn, it just felt so right to consider yourself a minority. Hey, there’s that penchant for victimhood again. What an idiot.
Though I am reluctant to come to JayTea’s rescue, I can’t help myself. I think I know what the problem is.
There have been news articles about individual states–specifically California, and I think, Texas–where no one race represents a majority of the population. In California, that point has been reached. I don’t remember the details about Texas.
Perhaps you’re remembering those?
I promised I wouldn’t post ["I promise you all, that I will not post in this thread again. If what I expect to happen, happens (and I am certain you will not disappoint), it would serve no purpose." - from 4:46 AM], but I have to make at least one comment:
Why are you asking me questions, and challenging me, when I’ve already said I wouldn’t post?
Are you all so wrapped up in the “thrill of the hunt” that you can’t read simple English?
And, of course, frameone — What can I say that hasn’t been said? He misunderstand my comment, and I become — surprise, surprise! — a dumb ass! But I must say, nice change up from “idiot” to “dumb ass”. Been cracking the Vicious Sociopath’s Lexicon, eh?
BTW, have you taken Duros under your wing? That was a nice switcheroo on the statement I made. And, yes, you get one “attaboy!” for devising you own insult. Your comment will stay on the Bulletin Board with Mary’s drawing of a bear, and Tommy’s composition about his summer vacation, for a whole week!
Now, I’ll try to wait until you’re all done.
America, fortunately, is greater than any one race. Were whites to become the minority, she would still be great. How decidedly un-American to think otherwise.
Frame, I don’t recall the particulars, but I do remember that during a previous argument, you decided to publish here a private e-mail from me to you, without my knowledge or consent. While I am not in the least embarassed by what I wrote, I considered that a despicable, contemptible violation of common decency and ethics, and asked Oliver to take some sort of action, as the act happened on his page. As expected, nothing happened.
If you wanna reprint that e-mail yet again, there’s not a damned thing I can do to stop you. You broke no laws, and the host here apparently has no problems with your unethical conduct. So if you wish to reassert your scumbaggery, go right ahead. But do it in the full knowledge that you do so without my consent.
It’s called “principle,” frame. Find some kind person to explain it to you. You might also want to look up “ethics” and “courtesy,” but I don’t want to overload your feeble brain all at once.
J.
Crazy Jay, it is comical that you think you know what kind of liberal I am. Because if you knew where I live, what I do for a living, and who I am, you wouldn’t say such foolish things.
But then again, maybe you would, because you are crazy.
Well, it may be a rare occurrence, I’ll admit.
And Frank, are you saying white people have something to fear from Al Sharpton and Farrakhan if they become the minority?
What he meant was pretty obvious to me. Frauds like Sharpton and Farrakhan have made a very good living for themselves demonizing the white power structure. What will they do if whites were a minority? Not that I would give a rats ass, but that’s what I read into Frank’s questions.
I think you were being unfair with him. His questions seemed rhetorical at best. It wasn’t done in a, “Oh shit! What will we do if……?” despondent way.
“In California, that point has been reached.”
Ya, where I live. Trust me guys, whites need not fear falling out of demographic majority status. We’re all doing just fine — despite what you might hear from the idiots among us.
And, yes, you get one attaboy! for devising you own insult. Your comment will stay on the Bulletin Board with Mary s drawing of a bear, and Tommy s composition about his summer vacation, for a whole week!
Aww, Frank. I’m touched.
“I m gonna lie and fake answers, I m going to make damned sure they re not so easily disproven.”
Gold, comedy gold.
“You might also want to look up ethics and courtesy, ”
Jesus, Jay, might I suggest you look up anything, just once, before you open your mouth. Maybe then you wouldn’t have to fire off petulant little emails and posts defending your idiocy.
Are there any painters out there? I want to commission a replacement for Munch’s The Scream. It wouldbe a portrait of Jay Tea entitled The Whine. Any takers?
Crazy Jay, it is comical that you think you know what kind of liberal I am. Because if you knew where I live, what I do for a living, and who I am, you wouldn t say such foolish things.
It’s hard to do that when you hide behind an anonymous name. But what the hell? You make assumptions about people ALL THE TIME that you don’t know. Don’t get your panties in wad because you had it thrown back at you.
“While I am not in the least embarassed by what I wrote, I considered that a despicable, contemptible violation of common decency and ethics, and asked Oliver to take some sort of action, as the act happened on his page.”
Nice dodge Jay.
I ll bet big bucks that guys like factcheck are the kind that cross the street if they see a few black guys walking towards them.
More projection from Jay?
Quaker, I’m as reluctant to thank you for the support as you were to offer it, but you just may be right. That also might have led to my error. It’s certainly plausible, and if I’m gonna lie and fake answers, I’m going to make damned sure they’re not so easily disproven.
Oh, and Oliver, for the record: I respect your right to insist on people registering to post comments. I just don’t see how you reconcile that with your apparent position that we, as a nation, can’t do the same with our borders: insist that people “register” and establish who they are, and ask permission, before being granted access to the US. Or, since you haven’t stated your own position that I’ve noticed, your attacks on those who do call for such measures.
I’ve repeatedly stated my own position: eased entry requirements coupled with stricter penalties for those who violate the laws, those who aid and abet the law’s violation, and sanctions against those nations that aid and abet the law’s violation. For example, any social services given to illegal aliens would be deducted from foreign aid to their home nation, and severe financial penalties for companies that hire and exploit illegal aliens — the new “slave labor.”
Surprise us for once, Oliver. Come out with something you believe in, not just ad hominem attacks against those with whom you disagree. Say where you stand, not what you stand against. Be pro-active for once, instead of reactionary. Put forth an original thought.
J.
Frame, I don’t have to call you dishonest. You do it all by yourself.
You quoted me:
I m gonna lie and fake answers, I m going to make damned sure they re not so easily disproven.
You decided to pervert the entire satirical angle of the statement by omitting the first word: “IF.”
As in, “IF I m gonna lie and fake answers, I m going to make damned sure they re not so easily disproven.”
And who needs painters to capture your true essence? Any good microbiologist can provide me with some fine examples of coprophagic bacteria, and the resemblence should be remarkable.
J.
Oh, and Oliver, for the record: I respect your right to insist on people registering to post comments. I just don t see how you reconcile that with your apparent position that we, as a nation, can t do the same with our borders: insist that people register and establish who they are, and ask permission, before being granted access to the US.
Oh, Snap! Nice fake, JT! He bobs, he weaves, he shoots…. and… misses.
Actually, I think that is exactly what Oliver is saying, if you read his other posts.
Okay everyone get this through your thick primate skulls.
There are an estimated 6,506,667,100 humans on the planet Earth. http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html
We are all of us from Bill Gates to the poor girl born a half-hour ago in Darfur, members of the human race. There are not multiple human races, there is only the one.
It is just that simple. So, just deal with it.
http://record.wustl.edu/archive/1998/10-15-98/articles/races.html
Frank said that? Oh, pardon me while I feign shock.
What’s more disturbing is this:
“And, two, there are white racists and white supremacists out there. Many of them are armed, and pass themselves off as militias. What do you think their reaction will be to being in the minority?”
Thinly veiled message: Wake up liberal whitey, a hurt’s coming your way if you let 11 Million Mexican’s into the country.
News flash, nitwit: Those nutcases ALREADY are acting as though they are in the minority. What exactly will change?
My theory on those kinds of people, is that they aren’t really upset about being in the minority, they’re upset because their Mommy and Daddy weren’t nice to them growing up, or maybe they were bullied at school, or got dumped by a black girlfriend. Sure, some of them were raised from birth to hate–but I think the vast majority of the militia/supremacist types are simply life’s losers. They need someone to blame for their misery. Are they dangerous? Sure, but Frank’s talking like there’s going to be some kind of Civil War.
Frank hasn’t necessarily revealed that he’s racist–he’s just revealed that he’s a few fries short of a Happy Meal.
Oh….one other thing. Jay C. has NO credibility on race issues. Never has. Probably never will.
Been there, done that.
JK
Crazy Jay blurted:
I ll bet big bucks that guys like factcheck are the kind that cross the street if they see a few black guys walking towards them.
I’ll take that bet! You can send my check to these people in my name:
ACLU
125 Broad Street
18th Floor
New York, NY 10004
America appreciates your donation.
More to Oliver’s original point, “The Racism Behind The Immigration Argument”, we now have this:
In that case, no thanks are needed.
IF I m gonna lie and fake answers, I m going to make damned sure they re not so easily disproven.
I still don’t see that as satire. I think you were just being honest for once.
I am hoping that caucasians become a minority in my state…maybe I can get some “minority set-asides” for small business owners….!
Sweeet……
Oh, you mean being a “minority” doesn’t actually mean you have to be a “minority”?
Damn, I hate liberal logic….
“Brand Democrat: Our words mean whatever they say they mean….”
My take on the immigration issue, legal and illegal sides of it, is that many Republicans feel threatened. Since about age nine or so, Karl Rove has been in the business of creating Republicans where he can, and reducing the number of Democrats by whatever means he can get away with. Now that the fruits of Republican dominance in policymaking are not quite as promised, it is more important that the number of new Democrats be minimized, to counter the drift of independents away from GOP candidates.
The national demographics are currently split by a narrow margin and the spectre of mostly Democratic-leaning future voters (immigrants) is a bit scary to GOP sttrategists. They know the reduction of immigrants is a difficult sell in an election year and it must be framed in new ways.
Jay –
Uh? Now you’re reaching. How does omitting the “if” change the meaning of the sentence?
My comment was addressing the hilarious idea that you’re even smart enough to even lie well. You aren’t even smart enough to check the facts behind your basic assumptions. How are you ever going to pull off a lie so sublty and crafty that no one could detect it.
Hell the last dust up we had over your casual relationship with the facts was when you misread a chart on third world carbon emissions and then posted a quote in support of your misreading that actually contradicted it. Now that’s fucking dumb.
And for the record…the MMP is an accident waiting to happen. Right now, they make Jay feel all warm anf fuzzy, but let’s see what happens when one of them, in frustration, fires an automatic weapon into a crowd of illegals.
JK
*snort*
That’s funny.
Oh& .one other thing. Jay C. has NO credibility on race issues. Never has. Probably never will.
This from the whitest of white men, who lives in the whitest of white areas who worked at the whitest of white schools and whose contact with minorities is limited to watching ‘What’s Happening!’ repeats on Nick At Nite. JK, you’re basically the equivalent of a Ted Kennedy. You think you have cred because you vote Democrat. Big whoop.
Right now, they make Jay feel all warm anf fuzzy, but let s see what happens when one of them, in frustration, fires an automatic weapon into a crowd of illegals.
Another commentator on Oliverwillis.com that has the ability to see into the future. Amazing. Are there classes or something that I can sign up for?
The only people in danger of being fired upon by automatic weapons are MMP volunteers themselves. If Mexican drug smugglers are willing to shoot at Border Patrol Agents with automatic weapons, what’s to stop them from firing on a citizen? In addition, leaders of Mara Salvatrucha a violent gang based out of Los Angeles has given members orders to attack MMP members.
But I guess you have no problem with that. They’re just a bunch of racists anyway.
And Jay
While were at it. Would you care to enlighten us on how Oliver has “promulgated the confusion” between legal and illegal immigration? It seems to me that in all his posts he has been quite clear about the distinction. For example:
“Amnesty for illegal immigrants seems like cutting in line to me. It s rewarding breaking the rules. If people from other countries want to emigrate to America – and I definitely want them to – they need to do so by following the rules. Encouraging otherwise is just wrong.”
Oliver obviously can defend himself but would you care to give us your example of where and how he blurred the lines?
Sure, Oliver. Have you noticed that Russian immigrants, for instance, are referred to in places like the New York Times as emigrees? That is, high-class white immigrants.
I have lived as a minority white in Hawaii for ten years. Lately, no militias have gone ballistic, although a Japanese American killed a bunch of people a few years ago. We whites here are self-selected for being less racist than Mainland whites in general, though some report being picked on. I understand Hauli (local dialect for white)kids have problems in the public schools, for instance.
In fact, the power structure here is led by whites in partnership with local Asians. The whites who object to this arrangement do so because they believe the whites should run everything instead of just almost everything.
As I’ve said, I think if someone is here illegally and found out, they have to go. I don’t think amnesty is fair. I don’t think we need to seal off our borders. I love that our country has such a unique mix of immigrants (some might call it a melting pot), and we should continue that tradition.
That said, there is a blatantly racist undertone to much of the conservative concern about immigration. That the majority of illegal immigrants are hispanic Mexicans and not caucasian Canadians seems to be a sticking point.
As I ve said, I think if someone is here illegally and found out, they have to go. I don t think amnesty is fair. I don t think we need to seal off our borders.
If you don’t think somebody should be here illegally, then why are you opposed to making it more difficult to cross our borders?
That said, there is a blatantly racist undertone to much of the conservative concern about immigration. That the majority of illegal immigrants are hispanic Mexicans and not caucasian Canadians seems to be a sticking point.
This doesn’t make sense. You’re saying it’s racist because the majority of illegals are hispanic Mexicans, even though it is a fact that the majority of illegals are hispanic Mexicans. Unless you’re saying, “If it were caucasian Canadians” conservatives wouldn’t be so concerned. That would make more sense but it would be completely irrelevant as it is not the case.
Well, Jay….you’re right about one thing. I am white.
I’m now in roughtly my 20th year of working in very racially, and culturaly diverse environments. For the last 15 years, I’ve lived in one.
Go review a movie, cupcake.
JK
Kiss my ass, Hattie. I’ve lived in Hawaii for over fifteen years. “We whites here are self-selected for being less racist than Mainland whites in general” is nonsense. People come here for a variety of reasons, little have anything to do with the racial composition of the state. l “the power structure here is led by whites in partnership with local Asians” is no more true than it would be to say the the power structure here is led by the wealthy, just like it is anywhere else.
It’s amazing how ‘non-racists’ always manage to make everything a racial issue.
Let’s say there are two types of Republican opposition to the issue. One is honest, the other one goes on at length about Mexicans and why America won’t be America any more if the white majority isn’t the white majority any more.
It’s the Republicans who are against illegal immigration because it means the end of the white race that isn’t alright. Don’t pretend you don’t see the difference, JD.
Let’s see if we get this right. Oliver is against illegal immigration, and that is alright, but Republicans being against illegal immigration is racist ? That is a pretty deft rhetorical tactic there, O-Dub. Congrats.
If you want to argue about the economic impact of immigration, legal or illegal, fine. Just argue with the facts.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/14216395.htm
But if you want to argue about a “threat” to American culture from swarming hordes, take it to the Klan rally.
When was the point where illegal aliens became known as undocumented workers ?
At least Oliver is intellectually honest enough to carve out a niche for Republicans that have honest concerns with illegal immigration. This just so reminds me of exactly how Seder, Malloy, and the guy filling in for Franken were going on and on about illegal immigration. Essentially, they were advocating the same program as the Republicans, but the Republicans were racists and the liberal was pure. Great rhetorical technique.
When they got jobs, asshat.
Cupertino, CA provides a good example of what happens when whites become the “minority.”
http://www.modelminority.com/printout1061.html
Dear Stick, Would you mind if I didn’t kiss your ass?
So, because they got hired they are no longer illegal aliens, douchebag ? Gee, that is almost fun to call people childish names. Well done, duros.
[I copied the entire thread to Word, and then eliminated everything that I thought was irrelevant for whatever reason. There wasn't much left, I'm sorry to say. That says a lot about the American "dialogue" on race.]
mjb: March 30th, 2006 at 9:06 am
Why even express concern about the feelings of white supremacists, as if it s a valid point of view that needs a light shined on it? White supremacists are not a concern for moral people. They didn t earn their superiority, it was given to them on the backs of others. They are wrong and evil and stupid. If it came down to a violent confrontation those of us who agree with OW would welcome it, but before and after we wouldn t give them a second of concern. [emphasis added]
I coould be a wise guy and say, “Yeah, right, ignore them and they’ll go away.” I won’t say that. Instead I’ll say, “I’m not concerned about their feelings. I will always be concerned about crazy guys with guns.”
First
Oliver Willis March 30th, 2006 at 11:00 am
And Frank, are you saying white people have something to fear from Al Sharpton and Farrakhan if they become the minority? Because that doesn t make any g-d sense either. What happened at Freddy’s didn’t make any g-d sense, either.
My amazement at this line of thought is that even though blacks, hispanics, asians and others have some how gotten along as racial minorities in America for hundreds of years, somehow the system s going to fall down if white people are no longer the majority race.
Your amazement may be associated with the fact that the statement came from your imagination. So far, you have said it twice, but no one else has.
And I have to ask the guy who insists that racism exists unabated to this very day, and discounts the effects of the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act, and Affirmative Action: Exactly how do you define getting along? Because I’m thinking Watts I and II, Detroit and Newark, and let’s not forget the Zoot Suit Riots, and the recent friendly demonstrations.
Big Gay Al: March 30th, 2006 at 11:25 am
America, fortunately, is greater than any one race. Were whites to become the minority, she would still be great. How decidedly un-American to think otherwise.
It might be “un – American to think otherwise.” I wouldn’t know, because I don’t think that America wouldn’t be great if whites were the minority. Perhaps you feel that way, so maybe you could tell me. I never said America wouldn’t survive with whites as a minority — that’s the song Oliver’s singing. What I said was that there could be some dire consequences to the type of attack against our culture we have witnessed in the last few years, where benighted liberal types have collaborated in slowing down the acculturation of Hispanic immigrants (legal or illegal) by accepting dual language usage nearly everywhere, advocating bi – lingual education, and, as we have seen since yesterday, shouting down pleas for immigration sanity, with screams of racism. Oliver even thinks that the fact that many more Mexicans come here illegally than Canadians, is somehow an indicator of conservatives’ racism.
Jay C: March 30th, 2006 at 11:25 am
What he meant was pretty obvious to me. Frauds like Sharpton and Farrakhan have made a very good living for themselves demonizing the white power structure. What will they do if whites were a minority? Not that I would give a rats ass, but that s what I read into Frank s questions.
I think you were being unfair with him. His questions seemed rhetorical at best. It wasn t done in a, Oh shit! What will we do if& & ? despondent way.
Almost 100% correct, Jay. I was merely saying that these things were worth thinking about — mjb’s nonchalance, and Oliver’s disingenuous twisting of my words notwithstanding.
frameone: Frank has totally confused American culture with White Culture, a culture he depicts as embattled, endangered and in need of protection.
Once again, Paul has substituted his thinking for mine, then negatively commented on it. A boring and lame routine. Stick with the name calling. We’re all familiar with it, and you seem to relish it so.
.
From Coronado’s comment: Race is a real cultural, political and economic concept in society, but it is not a biological concept, and that unfortunately is what many people wrongfully consider to be the essence of race in humans genetic differences, Templeton said. Templeton may be right about X amount of people but he has not stated who these people are, nor how many there are. That is no surprise. I’m sure that to retain his objectivity, he would never have hazarded a guess. Coronado certainly doesn’t know, either, rendering his comment meaningless.
Jay C: March 30th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
As I ve said, I think if someone is here illegally and found out, they have to go. I don t think amnesty is fair. I don t think we need to seal off our borders.
If you don t think somebody should be here illegally, then why are you opposed to making it more difficult to cross our borders?
Yeah, Oliver, why?
That wraps things up for me. Thanks for the education. I now understand exactly how liberals feel about race and immigration
I don’t think that kryptonite thang is workin’, Oliver.
[...] 220;they won t be like mainstream America , etc (in other words, like Frank, they re lamenting the Threat of A Brown Amer [...]
I m now in roughtly my 20th year of working in very racially, and culturaly diverse environments. For the last 15 years, I ve lived in one.
Sure you do sweetheart. Tell us what kind of trouble Roger and Dwayne get into on tonights episodes.
I just gotta hear what JK )the guy who’s fixated on Australia, where they treat their minority like crap) calls a very racially and culturally diverse environment. He probably means there’s an Afro – American security guard in the office building where he works, and a Hispanic janitor.
Keep driving that Mercedes, white boy — you’ll make it to Australia some day.
“What I said was that there could be some dire consequences to the type of attack against our culture”
Frank, who is the “our” in this sentence?
>>Tell us what kind of trouble Roger and Dwayne get into on tonights episodes.
Oh, the irony of that statement. Has anyone taken a look at Caruso’s blog lately? He does these really cheesy “scene by scene” breakdowns of “American Idol.” American Friggin’ Idol.
Well, let’s see, Frank and Jay…in the few weeks, alone, I’ve worked directly with, and in support of, people from China, Italy, Russia, Japan, and Greece. For the last year or two, you can extend that list to people from just about every walk of life.
Does that make me an expert on race? Hell no, but it proves that Jay doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he calls me a sheltered white boy.
Jay, you used to be good. But these days, you’ll lie to make a point. I think you’re better than that.
Frank, I don’t hold out as much hope for you. You’re just not right in the head.
JK
Stop saying republicans are against illegal immigration, that would just be the foot soldier republicans, the elite of the republicans like illegal immigrants. Otherwise they wouldn’t be able to maintain their big house and fancy lawns. You can’t farm your house cleaning overseas. It’s cheap labor, republican leadership is all about that.
frameone: Do you really want to know — or is this one of your “prompts”?
JK: Go drive that Mercedes to Australia
I ve worked directly with, and in support of, people from China, Italy, Russia, Japan, and Greece.
Hehe. “Some of my best friends come from other countries.” I notice you didn’t mention any blacks, Afro -American or otherwise; nor did you mention any Hispanics, from Spain, the Caribbean, or Lain America.
Remind me, please. What were we talking about all day yesterday?
“Do you really want to know or is this one of your prompts ?”
Frank, stop hedging and just answer the question.
Oh, the irony of that statement. Has anyone taken a look at Caruso s blog lately? He does these really cheesy scene by scene breakdowns of American Idol. American Friggin Idol.
Uh moron. It’s a blog that is focused on POP CULTURE AND SPORTS. References to what is the most popular show on television sort of fits n with that theme. As for irony, imagine the irony of being lectured to about American Idol by a fan of one of the most overrated bands in the history of music, The Grateful Dead.
Well, let s see, Frank and Jay& in the few weeks, alone, I ve worked directly with, and in support of, people from China, Italy, Russia, Japan, and Greece. For the last year or two, you can extend that list to people from just about every walk of life.
China, Italy, Russia, Japan, and Greece? Sounds like you ate at some nice restaurants. Big deal.
My company has offices in France, South American and Asia. When I worked at Cargill that had offices worldwide, I worked daily with our offices in Malaysia and Singapore. We were traders of crude natural rubber. As such, I also worked directly with people from Indonesia, Vietnam, Nigeria, Ghana, etc. For 10 years (age 15-25) I lived in a section of town where 85% of the residents are minorities. The neighbors to my left were from Kenya. The neighbors to my right were Dominican. For close to two years I worked as a children’s photographer. The area I worked daily took me mostly to Newark, Irvington, East Orange and Orange. To this day, I still remain in contact with some of the wonderful people I met when working that job.
You live in a state where whitey makes up 85% of the population. I’ve lived in three states – New York (68%), New Jersey (73%), and Florida (78%) – all of which are more racially and culturally diverse than MA. Bottom line? My experiences and dealings with minorities goes way beyond yours. Like I said, you think you who vote for gives you more credibility on the issue and that’s absurd.
My last post to you. This is just an insult fest.
I’ve answered it elsewhere — go look for it.
And, talk about arrogance: “stop hedging and just answer the question.”
Today you’re a badgering, narcissistic sociopath.
Here, I wouldn’t want to disappoint little Paulie:
Now, go piss up up a rope, you jejune, narcissistic, sociopath
“I ve answered it elsewhere go look for it.”
So you got nothing?
If Frank and Frameone had a talk show.
Good one… But I would probably fling poo better… =:-}
Not buying it Jay. I know about your past associations, and flirtations.
And American Idol. LMAO.
Oh, how the “mighty” have fallen.
What would Domer think?
JK
Jay C can fight his own battles, but JK, I can’t wait to see your blog!
Not buying it Jay. I know about your past associations, and flirtations.
Well enlighten us. And don’t even try that frigging Yahoo Club, because you’ve smoked too much of the Jerry Garcia lettuce as your memory has gone bad.
So bring it bitch.
And American Idol. LMAO.
And? You’re the one who thinks a half-assed band that appeals to stoners and tie-dye wearing t-shirt losers is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Who are you to laugh at anybody?
What would Domer think?
Who gives a rats ass what Domer would think?
Jay C can fight his own battles, but JK, I can t wait to see your blog!
Forget it Frank. JK’s not that interesting and neither is what he writes.