’)Someone in the media finally reported on Bush’s favorite rhetorical trick: the straw man
“Some look at the challenges in
Iraq and conclude that the war is lost and not worth another dime or another day,”
President Bush said recently.Another time he said, “Some say that if you’re Muslim you can’t be free.”
“There are some really decent people,” the president said earlier this year, “who believe that the federal government ought to be the decider of health care … for all people.”
Of course, hardly anyone in mainstream political debate has made such assertions.
No doubt some con will attack this story for being biased for reporting the facts, but who cares. The thing is, Bush won’t ever name names because he is weak and cowardly. He needs the straw to cover his ass.
Oliver quoted, “… hardly anyone in mainstream political debate has made such assertions.”
Well, that’s certainly interesting.
Hillary Clinton, your party’s top Presidential candidate and a career-long supporter of centrally-planned health care, is not a part of “mainstream political debate”?
Again, interesting.
Hillary Clinton never said that the government should “dictate” your health care. She has campaigned for single provider universal coverage that would guarantee a basic level of medical care for all citizens. It wouldn’t dictate your health care any more than an HMO does now (though HMO’s dictate your care A LOT). What’s more, it would put price caps in place to control skyrocketing costs and keep big pharma in check, unlike what we have now.
It sure FEELS like Hillary is trying to take away my freedom, though, so good enough, eh? Commie liberals!
Viva la truthiness!
Well, one thing is for certain. Bush has become the quintessential expert on foolhardy policy.
The protean whiz Goldstein has already risen to defend the Bush.
John Murtha:
Pelosi gave her support to Murtha.
…remember how Bush said he would carry George Howard’s police shield and that dead guy’s mom was in the audience?
Then, years later, Bush’s pockets were fucking empty?
~~ ~~
Empty promises… that’s all we get.
That Some.
[...] re now willing to point out the lies and mendacity of Bush and his administration. Crack In The Matrix No doubt some con will attack this [...]
Then, years later, Bush s pockets were fucking empty?
His good intentions are what’s important here.
I prefer having my HMO make decisions for me. Their 20% profit should come first as well.
not to turn this into a complete health care discussion…but…
What s more, it would put price caps in place to control skyrocketing costs….
this is the biggest fallacy in the whole discussion. It doesn’t control COST it controls PRICE. This is exactly why every single-payer system in the world limits care, and eventually leads to longer waits and less coverage.
Why every country in the world didn’t adopt the NHS as soon as Nye Bevan invented it is a continual source of much puzzlement to me.
Hey, I’m so lucky. I’m a greedy geezer. I get HMO Kaiser coverage for a mere $200.00 a month. What? You pups think it’s free? Think again.
If anybody is really serious about the adopting of “single provider universal coverage”, or whatever you want to call “Gummint Health Care,” call your local County Health Department, ask where the nearest Public medical clinic is, and head on over there.
Get there real early. Watch sick people, including people with bad legs, feet and backs, standing on line to “Sign In.” (Appointments First, Walk – Ins last). Watch them sit there for something like 2 hours, until the Residents have completed their Grand rounds, before ANYTHING happens.
Then the Residents come out with a medical folder — if you’ve been there before, and take you in the back. If you have an ailment you are reporting to them for the first time — a rash, a pain, trouble breathing — they will timidly offer you a low dose of something, and tell you to come back in one or two weeks.
When you return, and tell them how things have gone since your last visit, they may change what they give you, or increase what they were giving you — return in one or two weeks — blood test, maybe; X – Ray, maybe; Sonogram, maybe.
When you return, and tell them how things have gone since your last visit, if nothing has changed, you will be seen by an experienced Doctor, and back to step 2, above — return in one or two weeks.
If that doesn’t work, you will be seen by another experienced Doctor. Repeat Step 2 above — elapsed time 3 – 6 weeks, and you may not know what’s wrong yet.
There you are — Medical Paradise!
Don’t believe me?
Go see for yourself…
One badly run hospital proves that free public health coverage is bad.
It boggles the mind, it really does. Your access to health treatment depending on your income (to say nothing of the bullishit the insurers pull on you if you’ve so much as had the flu in the past) is practically a continuation of the feudal system, and here you are treating the NHS like some dystopian nightmare.
I will never leave this country while the NHS is nationalised. It might not be perfect, but if my kidney explodes I won’t have to pay for it not to kill me.
Nothing is free. Who do you think is paying?
Nimrod — you don’t know anything about America. Do you think the Beeb and the IHT are filling you in on life in the US?
Re – read the challenge:”call your local County Health Department, ask where the nearest Public medical clinic is, and head on over there… ”
Go see for yourself& ”
Anywhere. Anywhere.
I will never leave this country while the NHS is nationalised.
Thank God.
Which is obviously fairer than actually charging for operations.
Thank God for King George III’s porphyria.
Thanks for telling me what I do and don’t know.
Nothing is free. Who do you think is paying?
The people who use it, via taxation, obviously. Which is obviously fairer than actually charging for operations.
Sorry, that was JWG- sounds like something (stupid) that Ferris would say. Surprised you would say it, JWG.
It’s more fair to charge others for your needs? Wow…you can’t get more Left than that!
Save Ferris (from military service)-
I guess you don’t believe in insurance then, right?
Nimrod is advocating that we are all in this life together and should look out for each other.
When my daughter was 9 or so, she asked me what the difference was between a Democrat and a Republican. I told her “A Democrat asks ‘what can I do for you?’” while a Republican asks ‘What can you do for me?’”
Frank, actually, under King George, the only people with access to doctors would be the aristocrats and the wealthy.
Which is, of course, about what we have now. So…George III = George Bush, big surprise.
And Bill, I’m all about single payer health care. But not about Hilary style single payer.
Hillary has a really, really bad habit of addressing effects, rather than root causes. Take pharmacy costs. The solution is not to set price caps. Price caps do no one any good, they’re stupid, and they’re artificial. If you really want to fix medical prices, you need to strip all the extra protections out of the patents for medicine, and return them to the 7 year mark. 7 years, and then every drug is patent free and any generic maker that waants to come in and make it can.
THAT will solve the price problem.
And neo-con business men shills…don’t come crying with that tired old argument that the poor pharmie companies are just going to fold up and die of lack of profit if someone shares their grand discoveries. Its been shown that the state of patent and copyright law in this country (and world wide) is hurting research, because no one is willing to share any information. And on top of that its not like the government doesn’t pay out a bunch of money in grants for a lot of that research anyway.
So, in summary: Single payer health care = good, single payer health care + fixed patent law = great.
Oh, the cleverness of you!
q – w; hear that whooshing sound? That’s the sound of the point of my comment sailing right over your head. Damn, weren’t you even made curious by the reference? If you were you would have realized it’s significance. It has nothing to with health care.
The best thing that can happen to a guy in an argument with a friggin’ smartass, is when he makes a simple point and the “smart guy” (that’s yo, q – w) totally misses it.
Nimrod, who is from Great Britain, q – w (starting to make sense yet?), said he thought it was fairer to have medicine paid for by taxation than it was to have it paid by the people who need the care.
So I said, “Thank God for King George III s porphyria.” You see, King George’s porphyia contributed to the arrival of William Pitt the Younger as prime minister in 1783 (how about that year, q – w, does that ring a bell? Like, maybe, a “Liberty Bell”?) Pitt was sympathetic towards the American colonists, making the end of the American Revolution favorable from our point of view.
So, to complete the thread, I was merely saying, “If Nimrod, a British citizen, thought it was fairer for taxation to pay everyone’s medical expenses, than for them to pay their own, then thank God for King George’s madness.”
Not bad for a guy who never actually answers an argument, or will always, in every case, pull the political discussion of I m rubber and you re glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you! BING! FWIP!
Eh, dumbass?
Why, thank you for noticing, duros!
Everyone in the insurance plan pays into the fund, and those who pose higher risks and raise costs typically pay more. Does everyone pay into the government sponsored/paid medical care? The point being challenged was about fairness. Insurance is much more fair than taxation when it comes to paying for your needs.
I actually favor helping people pay for necessities such as medical care, but I wouldn’t declare that forced assistance through taxation and price controls is more fair than someone paying for what they individually need.