Once again, the conservatives remind black Americans like myself how lucky we are that our ancestors were seen as subhuman trash to be bought and sold.
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The Pony Hidden In Slavery
March 16th, 2006
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As opposed to liberals, who believe blacks are subhuman trash who deserve to have their credit reports stolen.
How long till you decry the Democrat’s Culture of Corruption?
Slavery in Africa was initially crime committed by African upon African. This always seems to be forgotten, the truth is many Africans rounded up many more Africans to sell on to the slavers in the ports. slavery went on in Russia for a couple of decades after the US civil war. Similarly, Russians committed this crime against other Russians.
The difference between the two examples above (apart from the revolutions in Russia), is that former slaves in other parts of the world were allowed to prosper and thrive post-slavery, but in the USA that change was (is) a long time comin’ (to coin a lyric).
Farris you must be really pissed off about the WH authorizing illegal wiretaps without warrants then.
Just so I’m clear…a columnist for the Kitsap Peninnsula Business Journal is now defined as “the conservatives?”
Just checking.
Oliver has used a obscure blog (total ~100 pageviews/day) that uses a broken link to an article by an obscure local columnist (Adele Ferguson) to smear conservatives.
Here we see in action the journalistic acumen that the financiers of the mighty Media Matters machine believe can alter the American political landscape.
Are you sure, absolutely sure, that the south didn’t win the Civil War?
Uh, Stick, as a paragon of conservative wisdom yourself, would you care to weigh on the issue:
“Resolved, slavery was the best thing that ever happened to blacks.”
Are you pro or con?
Farris, you’re misreading your link. This Democrat believed that Michael Steele was subhuman trash who deserved to have his credit report stolen, not all blacks.
(Not a defensible position, mind you, but it’s different than what you’re comparing it to–the columnist is decrying all blacks for being sore about slavery.)
Every democrat likely wishes whoever did that would leave the party. Can you say the same about Steele himself, who lied about having oreos thrown at him? Or the republican phone jamming scams which ran much higher up the republican totem pole than the credit report incident? Or the college republican who stomped someone who disagreed with him at the convention? Or Delay, or Abramoff, or Ney, or Cheney letting the energy industry write the energy bill (which they admitted to), etc. etc. etc.
I think the person responsible for the credit report scam should be rendered unemployable by any liberal/Democratic group because of what was done. There, I’ve decried that “Democrat’s Culture of Corruption”, and I’m sure the rest of us here agree with me.
btw, this is from the article you cited:
“Whitney C. Ellerman, an attorney for Weiner, said his client plans to plead guilty to a misdemeanor under an agreement with prosecutors that could result in the charge being dismissed in a year.
“She basically made a mistake, and she is accepting responsibility for that mistake,” Ellerman said. “She wants to get on with her life.”"
Don’t you wish anyone of the before mentioned GOP culture corruptors would be this contrite? She resigned, has Delay?
Wow. Simply wow. Save, your post rivals Frank for sheer non-sensical idiocy. Congratulations.
Oliver has used a obscure blog (total ~100 pageviews/day) that uses a broken link to an article by an obscure local columnist…
Point taken. A tree falling in the forest (like Ann Coulter[if only a tree could fall ON Ann Coutler]). Even if it makes a sound, WTF cares?
Here’s why it matters to me. Because you don’t see anything equivalent to this on the left. If you want to call Ward Churchill equivalent, I’ll give that to you, but there are enormous organizations of people who buy into ignorant opinions on race such as hers, which constitute a large portion of the “base” for Republicans. You can even find people tied to these “outlying” groups populating places like the Washington Times and Free Republic. Where is the equivalent on the left? Where are the large grassroots orgs and million hit websites who tried to justify the sept.11 attacks on civilians, as churchill did? The author of this piece is saying something which many in the right mainstream agree with (basically, “quit crying, you’re here aren’t you”) but won’t say.
I think it would be helpful, in the spirit of pure honesty, if the wingers who post here would say if agree for the most part, or disagree for the most part, with what this lady wrote.
Fact check time!
“Oliver has used a obscure blog (total ~100 pageviews/day) that uses a broken link to an article by an obscure local columnist (Adele Ferguson) to smear conservatives.”
*Loaded Orygun gets just under 300 pageviews a day, not 100
*It has been in production for fewer than 2 months, and is past 12,000 pageviews already
*This is the third major blog to cite LoadedO (Jesus’ General and Pandagon are the others)
*the link was broken by the paper, which has removed Ferguson’s article from its site.
I suppose this attempt to divert attention, is stick’s best substitute for having to admit the retrograde idiocy of the article. I don’t think it worked.
Holy crap, frameone, now you’re calling me an idiot in response to someone else’s post.
Too muckin’ fuch!
I guess that’s what you call one of your “reasoned comments”.
You’re a joke, Paul. You should be a lighthouse keeper. You neither deserve nor are capable of dealing with human company.
stick:
1. The link is broken because the exposure this insane woman has received has caused the original publishing paper to voluntarily remove the web link. If you would like to see the original article in its entirety as it appeared in print, you can find it scanned at http://hominidviews.com/?p=259 (tried to put a direct href link but the editor didn’t seem to like it)
2. The author of the racist screed, Adele Ferguson, is described by the paper printing the editorial as “the oldest and the most widely published political columnist in Washington State”. ( see http://hominidviews.com/?p=263 )
3. Conservatives never ever never trot out Ward Churchill, whom absolutely no one on the mainstream left had ever heard of before they dug him out from some rock someplace, as representative of mainstream progressive thought.
So, stick, to sum up. F**k off.
ps–
If you still want to read the piece, there’s a jpg version at Hominid Views, and a pdf version at Horse’s Ass. Nice job, guys! And we’re trying to track down the paper’s editors for comment.
Thanks for the hat tip, Oliver. Liked your blog before; love it now!
Frameone-
False. You know, Frame, you oughta get out once in a while and talk to real conservatives rather than the caricatures in your head.
Why would you need to find either the blog or the article? Oliver has spoken.
bryan,
In the example of African->African, Russian->Russian, or heck even AmerIndian->AmerIndian slavery is that these were based on tribal differences as opposed to racial differences.
The US Government, economy, and culture for 200 years thrived on reinforcing the notion that white was superior to red which was superior to black. In part this was intentional, but after awhile it just became natural. Laws were passed that forbid inter-racial marriage and even inter-racial cohabitation even between freemen.
The slavery examples you give are not based on such an easy distinction [though I'd hardly say Africa has overcome tribal hatred when you look at Darfur, Rwanda, etc] and thus as time wore on it become difficult to be biased against someone because you couldn’t instantaneously determine their heritage.
In the case of sexual difference I’m sure you could fine plenty of other “Western” cultures where women are still viewed as inferior [whether in respect, pay, or freedoms] because sex is easily determined and socially reinforced.
Here is a link to a .pdf version of the actual column.
While there are some reasonable points in the column regarding President Bush’s treatment at Coretta Scot King’s funeral and teachers unions and the Democrats, clearly relating slavery to being the work of god is idiotic. While it goes without saying that being black in America today beats being black in the Sudan, this obviously cannot justify or rationalize slavery.
Nevertheless, to take a column written by an obscure woman in an obscure monthly local business paper and then extrapolate that she speaks for all conservatives is itself ridiculous.
Oops frameone, should have said ‘con’.
It’s analogous to :”resolved: the potato famine was the best thing that ever happened to the Irish.”
This Adele Ferguson is some racist piece of work.
Want Palestinians to surrender, start killing their children
by Adele Ferguson
Eastside Journal
April 7, 2002
“Don’t write that,” advised my husband when I told him my solution to bringing an end to the suicide bomber terrorism inflicted on Israel by the Palestinian Arabs.
I’m not recommending it, I said, I know it would never come to pass because it would horrify the civilized world. I’m just saying it’s a fallacy that you can’t defeat an enemy who is willing and almost eager to die for what he or she regards as a noble cause when death brings martyrdom.
Jews will die for a noble cause if fate dictates, but you don’t hear of any Jews blowing themselves up just to take a few Palestinians with them. And, by the way, Jews are Palestinians too. For those Arabs to call themselves Palestinians as if they were the only ones is the same as Indians in this country regarding themselves as the only true Native Americans. I am a Native American, born in Fort Snelling, Minn.
Until creation of the state of Israel in 1948 by the United Nations, there were the Arabs and the Jews, all of them Palestinians. On that day of creation, Arab armies, headed by Transjordan, invaded Israel and were defeated but not totally driven out. They kept possession of Eastern Jerusalem and the territories of Judea and Samaria, renamed the West Bank, where they expelled all the Jews and destroyed their houses of worship. For the next 19 years, Jews could not visit the wailing wall in Jerusalem. They took it and the West Bank back in the 1967 Six-Day War.
Peace proposals have included joint occupation of Jerusalem and turning over to the Palestinian Arabs parts of the West Bank, but the Jews are afraid that once the Arabs were in place, they’d start the violence all over again. Arab policy, according to a Jewish anti-Arab propaganda outfit called FLAME (Facts and Logic about the Middle East), “is to get as much land as possible carved out of Israel ‘by peaceful and diplomatic’ means, so as to make Israel indefensible and softened up for the final assault.”
When my husband and I were in Israel in 1983 as part of a Washington State trade mission, we met with both Arab and Jewish officials, separately, of course. Arabs never used any word other than “occupied” for the Jewish presence in the land. The Jews said they took back in 1967 what the U.N. gave them in 1948, so the Arabs were the illegal occupiers, not them.
Jews do not want American bases or troops in their country, one top official told us. “We can take care of ourselves so long as we have the means to do it, tanks, planes, which we receive from you. We haven’t had a quiet day in 35 years. All we hope for, sometime, is to have one quiet day.”
So what is my solution for ending this carnage? It stems from the words of the late, great Prime Minister Golda Meir: “This won’t be settled until they love their children more than they hate Jews.” The next time a bunch of Arab youths are throwing rocks at the Israeli tanks, mow them down. Kill them. Keep doing it until the Arabs decide whether they really hate the Jews more than they love their children.
Too cruel and inhuman?
Yes. But who were the Arabs targeting when they blew up that disco frequented by young people? Many children died in the Passover massacre, which targeted families. Arabs have gone after innocents because they want to so terrorize the Jews they will be afraid to dine out or shop or take a bus, and will agree, even urge relinquishing most, if not all (Arafat wants all) of the land they took back in the 1967 war.
I don’t think the Israelis would have to dispose of many Arab children before the white flag would go up. The world would hate them for it, a world that has been surprisingly tolerant of the Arabs slaughter of Jewish children, but I’d bet the suicide bombings would stop.
“you oughta get out once in a while and talk to real conservatives”
Really? You don’t think that Adele Ferguson believes she is a “real conservative”?
Frank, you’re a basket case.
It’s not even a good metaphor. You’re not particularly likely to find a pony actually underneath a load of pony crap.
On second thought, maybe the metaphor is sound after all, just in a different direction.
would that she were the lone voice, Hedley. It’s a position repeatedly alluded to, such as here, here, and perhaps most notably by uberconservative David Horowitz here.
This is just one particularly virulent example.
Here is my email exchange with the paper:
From: Lary Coppola
To: doug r
Subject: Re: Adele Fergusen
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:10:09 -0800
If you will send me a verifiable name, address, and phone number, I will consider running your response. While we don’t condone the point of view expressed in that piece, we do believe in the First Amendment which which celebrates free speech and diversity of thought. LFC
doug r wrote: What?
Remember Ronald Reagan s story about the kid who had to shovel a huge pile of manure? He went about it with such joy he was asked why and said, With all that manure, there s got to be a pony in there somewhere. The pony hidden in slavery is the fact that it was the ticket to America for black people. I have long urged blacks to consider their presence here as the work of God, who wanted to bring them to this raw, new country and used slavery to achieve it. A harsh life, to be sure, but many immigrants suffered hardships and indignations as indentured servants. Their descendants rose above it. You don t hear them bemoaning their forebears life the way some blacks can t rise above the fact theirs were slaves.
– Lary Coppola, Editor & PublisherThe Kitsap Peninsula Business Journal
Email Address: biznews@wetapple.com
Voice: 360.876.7900 – Fax: 360.895.2495 – Toll Free: 800.733.7990
Address: 321 Tremont Street – Port Orchard, WA 98366-3764
Is there really an argument that this women is representative of most, or even a handful of conservatives. It’s just plain… manure
OW should have done much more with this post. The issue isn’t so much that some conservative columnist from a pretty obscure newspaper has written just a hideously ignorant and offensive column.
Instead, the fact is that many Repugs have tried on the “slavery was a lucky thing for black folks” meme and found it to their liking.
After all, many a rightwing pundit (think Limbaugh and Coulter) have used it. Dinesh D’Souza, author of The End of Racism (a book the WaPo called “a handbook for racists, often pontificates on this subject. And George Allen, when Gov. of VA, used to try to get his state’s curricula to gloss over US slavery by saying blacks from Africa came here willingly to ‘help build the country.’
Don’t break your knuckles attacking the messenger there.
Perhaps you’re familiar with the work of (marxist) Eugene Genovese?
Robert William Fogel?
This is ancient history…
Who the fuck is Adele Ferguson?
Cripes, you bitch and moan about Ward Churchill for weeks and then whip out some completely unknown columnist and apply her words to “the conservatives.”
The best line:
“It mystifies me why the black population is in thrall to the Democratic party”.
Uh, did she read the rest of her article? One which none of the cons here have denounced, by the way?
“The reason is that slavery proved to be the transmission belt that brought Africans into the orbit of Western prosperity and freedom. Blacks in America have a higher standard of living and more freedom than any comparable group of blacks on the continent of Africa.”
–Dinesh D’Souza, GOP pundit
“There Is No One Group That Benefited Exclusively from its [Slavery] Fruits.
–David Horowitz, GOP pundit
fastcheck — the PC (i.e., “approved by lefties”) term is repudiate.
Repudiate!
Are you saying that it is racist to say that America is more prosperous than Africa?
No, Frankie, that’s not racist.
What is racist, however, is the implication that slavery can be excused because, after 150+ years, some of the ancestors of slaves enjoy relative properity.
And it’s racist to ignore why Africa is less prosperous than the US: because most of Africa was subjected to several decades of colonialism which was predicated on slavery.
Jadegold: The “reason” for what? Are you saying that it is racist to say that America is more prosperous than Africa?
Could you at lest quote enough of what D Souza said, for it to make sense?
As to the second statement, even it is incorrest, is it racist? Does it someway glorify slavery?
If you have a point to make, why be coy? It’s not like you to be so shy…
Tasmia Shariff Undergraduate at The College of New Jersey, Robert Fogel and Stanley Engerman, David Horowitz
Covering the gamut of conservative opinion from A to B.
factcheck: Can you give me one good reason why I should renounce her article? [note: there are liberal commenters here who haven't renounced the article, either]
How does one go about renouncing an article, written by someone else, with whom I have no relationship, and for whom I have no responsibility?
And, suppose I did renounce the article, what earthly purpose would it serve?
We’re talking about an article which has already been removed from sight faster tha a cartoon of Mohammed.
JadeMold: I didn’t get that implication — you’re making it up.
It isn’t racist to “ignore why Africa is …” etc., that’s purely your idea that it is racist not have the same concerns as you. You might as well say it’s racist to prefer sherbert to ice cream.
But then again, intelligence in your comments has never been you strong suit.
Pseudo – intelligence, condescencion, name calling, demeaning people you disagree with — that’s what you’re good at!
“Pseudo – intelligence, condescencion, name calling, demeaning people you disagree with that s what you re good at! ”
Got projection?
I notice you still didn’t denounce any of her statements. Which of her statements do you disagree with? Or is it mega-dittos? You’ve made racist statements here in the past, does this woman speak for you as a conservative?
Frame, I wonder if he can do it. I really do.
What I wonder is, why any of you even care what I say? You’ve never even given me the simple courtesy and respect you should give any other stranger– even now, as you demand answers, you are not.
You baffle me, honestly.
I was thinking about this whole issue last night (something you all seem unwilling or unable to do) and I have some ideas:
Suppose we all stipulate that the woman is a racist, and we stipulate that slavery was not a blessing from God.
I have a few questions:
1) Is it racist to say that the life of the average American ex – slave is better, over all, than the life of the average African? {Even if you disagree with me, is it racist to say so?}
2) Are there only two opinions about racism in this country: liberal opinion and racist opinion?
3) Can one oppose any portion of the liberal / democratic agenda with regard to blacks, and not be a racist? If so, how? If so, which portion?
4) If a person were to think that there was a material upside to slavery, would that automatically make them a racist, i.e., One who believes that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others; 2 One who discriminates or has prejudice based on race.?
Nearly every ethnic group in Europe, and, of course, many other parts of the world, has been enslaved (”serf” is nothing but a fancy word for slave). Can’t we say there were positive effects, and at the same time, say that slavery is an inexcusable assault on human dignity.
People who enter recovery from drug and alcohol addiction are often called “survivors” because they confronted their oppressor, and overcame him.
This is what the slaves did in America. If we can’t talk about the “elephant in the parlor”, then how can we actually do anything about it?
Let the attacks begin… I’m sure I said the wrong thing somewhere.
Failure to disagree with the premises in Adele Fergusons article noted. You just couldn’t do it, could you?
1. Yes, if the stipulation “ex-slave” is present.
2. No. It just seems to work out that way.
3. A non-question.
4. Yes, that makes you a racist.
“You ve never even given me the simple courtesy and respect you should give any other stranger even now, as you demand answers, you are not.”
Come on Frank. Answer the question. Stick says real conservatives don’t support Ferguson’s argument. He rejected it, plainly. You haven’t.
The impact of slavery on this country was deep with complex consequences that we are still sorting out today. Blacks are not playing the victim, as Ferguson asserts. The real material effects of slavery are still with us today. Ferguson’s article and it’s quick removal, in and of themselves, are proof enough of that.
In a culture like this, when the impact of slavery is so deep and widespread, to even suggest that slavery had a material upside is an outrage. And yet, as we have seen, some conservatives don’t simply whisper this thought amongst themselves safe in the knowledge that “we’re all white here” — like the way you use racial epithets Frank. No they have tried to bring this crap out into the public and make it a matter of public policy. Other’s simply refuse to reject and so become complicit in its spread. Way to go Frank.
“Gold, Jerry, Gold!!!” “Did you hear the one about Ovaltine?” “Why don’t they call it Roundtine?”
“slavery is an inexcusable assault on human dignity” is not a refutation?
“stipulate that the woman is a racist, and we stipulate that slavery was not a blessing from God” is not a refutation?
If you’re that friggin’ obtuse, I’ll make it plain: I, THAT IS, ME, THAT IS, THE PERSON WHO IS TYPING, FRANK_D, DO HEREBY AND FORTHWITH, BEFORE ALL THESE PRESENTS, RENOUNCE AND REPUDIATE ADELE FERGUSON’S ARTICLE, INCLUDING THE PUNCTUATION AND FONT.
Happy, now?
factcheck: Is it within your ability to be serious about anything?
1) I think it says “ex – slave” doesn’t it? Why would I have to “stipulate” it?
2) What the hell does “it just works out that way” mean?
3) A non – question? — You mean lefties have no answer
4) Please demonstrate that, if possible, without rpeating yourself.
STOP ATTACKING ME FOR A FRIGGIN’ SECOND AND SAY SOMETHING.
Frameone, don’t lecture me about racism, you putz, I grew up with black people all around me, and my wife is Puerto Rican, you imbecile!
Stop winding up for the uppercut, and read the friggin’ posts, before you type the insults.
“STOP ATTACKING ME FOR A FRIGGIN SECOND AND SAY SOMETHING.”
“Frameone, don t lecture me about racism, you putz, I grew up with black people all around me, and my wife is Puerto Rican, you imbecile!”
You just couldn’t make this stuff up, folks. Nice “some of my best friends are….” argument too. Stop it Frank, you’re killing me.
factcheck: You are truly ignorant — not unintelligent, that I can’t vouch for, but undeniably, invincibly, ignorant. You are undoubtedly a liberal. Your hypocritical smarminess oozes from every pixel.
And, oh yes, good answers to the questions — who writes your material, Al Franken, or Bill Maher?
And, oh yes, Frameone, the magnificent intellectualoid: 1) I don’t “use racial epithets” — that I implies, quite clearly, that I say bad things (plural) about other races. I don’t. We are at war with Islamofascists, and, occasionally, I get pissed of and call them — on TV — a “towelhead”. It’s not nice, but I’m honest enough to plead guilty. We’ve been through this sh*t before, and you’re just being your nasty, stinkin’ self.
And, again, I remind you, the ethnic groups that occupy the Middle East are just that, ethnic groups — not races. So stop beating the same stupid drum. You can call me a racist ’til the end of time, and as annoying as it might be, that won’t make it true.
Finally, to even suggest that slavery had a material upside is an outrage. Set aside the rhetoric, and if there’s anything left, tell me why you think so. After all, a fact is a fact. That material upside doesn’t justify slavery, anymore than the existence of an independent Israel justifies the Holocaust, especially since the former was not the cause of the latter (aside: nice try smearing me as an anti – semite. I suppose now I’ll have to make a formal statement repudiating the Holocaust.)
“I remind you, the ethnic groups that occupy the Middle East are just that, ethnic groups not races.”
Thanks for the clarification Frank. You use ethnic slurs instead of racial slurs. Check.
) Is it racist to say that the life of the average American ex – slave is better, over all, than the life of the average African? {Even if you disagree with me, is it racist to say so?}
Not necessarily, see below.
2) Are there only two opinions about racism in this country: liberal opinion and racist opinion?
No.
3) Can one oppose any portion of the liberal / democratic agenda with regard to blacks, and not be a racist? If so, how? If so, which portion?
Yes. I oppose numerical quotas and cash reparations.
4) If a person were to think that there was a material upside to slavery, would that automatically make them a racist, i.e., One who believes that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others; 2 One who discriminates or has prejudice based on race.?
Again, not necessarily. But, this whole debate reminds me of GHW Bush’s claim that Michael Dukakis was a “card carrying” member of the ACLU. Facutually true but loaded, nonetheless. Yes, you can point out that, factually, many current decendents of slaves are better off than their African counterparts. And there may be a “material upside” to slavery? But think how loaded those statements are. And if they’re used to greatly discount the horrors of slavery, then the person doing so is incredibly insensitive if not racist.
“Let the attacks begin& I m sure I said the wrong thing somewhere”
Like this?:
“You are undoubtedly a liberal. Your hypocritical smarminess oozes from every pixel.”
I really don’t know why people are so convinced that I go around randomly insulting people, that they don’t notice who insulted who first, but JSA you’ve just done it. And you actually took the time to answer the questions before you did it. But still, no one, but no one, can find an insult leveled by me at anyone who didn’t insult me first.
I challenge people to look, but I might as well say, don’t bother, because you’re not going to find any.
No: actually, more like this
Factcheck:You just couldn t make this stuff up, folks. Nice some of my best friends are& . argument too. Stop it Frank, you re killing me.
Touche, Frank. But when you say stuff like I quoted in my last post, you are at least, indirectly, insulting me. I am undoubtedly a liberal, too (or moderate, at least), and I do not ooze hypocritical smarminess from every pixel.