Perhaps we can quote Ho Chi Minh explaining that they could never have one the war in vietnam were it not for the american left…..

Talking point- “There are people s lives we could save if we accelerated our investment in it”

Don’t necessarily disagree, but the ethics of creating embryos specifically for that purpose is questionable- even the scientists struggle with that one. Like I said- I personally am someone who is fine with all forms of stem cell research and it seems that the ethics issues of it may be solved scientifically very soon.

Talking Point- “no Democrats got any money from Abramoff”

Nice technicality. No Republican is under investigation for money they received “from Abramhoff” either. But from his clients? That’s where the problem comes in and Harry Reid is caught up in that web. Reid got money from Abramhoff client tribes that had never given Reid money before becoming clients. Nor had Reid ever done anything to help them before they became Abramhoff clients. And isn’t what that scandal is all about?

Talking Point- Unlike Republicans, Democrats are not reflexively racist.

But they were this time, eh Oliver. Not that I even concede the first part of the point. But you live in the world of generalizations.

Talking Point- We would be opposed to the UAE deal if they were purple Martians, because we re against giving our ports away to terror-connected states.

Jimmy Carter and Senator Clinton’s husband don’t seem to think so. (What’s that guy’s name again?)

Talking Point- “All we re doing there now is getting our soldiers killed for an Islamic state run by mullahs.”

You’re working overtime to come up with that one. Seems like the Mullahs are doing their part to try and avoid an actual civil war. (You forgot to add “Civil War” to the talking point.)

Talking Point- “Vietnam”

Now what it that happened in that little country when we left Vietnam high and dry?

most Americans think we should get out of Iraq

So do you think we should be out in 6 months or two years? “Get out” is pretty vague.

Just for the record merallen, what part of Clinton’s withdrawl from Somalia disqualifies him from the “cut & run” list? I mean, if Reagan is eligible for the list (which I agree with, btw), why not Black Hawk Down?

Harry Reid got money from indian tribes, if anything Abramoff was trying to cut off the flow of money to folks like Sen. Reid and steering it towards Republicans. Republicans are under investigation for their connection to Abramoff, no Democrats got any money from Abramoff.

Unlike Republicans, Democrats are not reflexively racist. We would be opposed to the UAE deal if they were purple Martians, because we’re against giving our ports away to terror-connected states.

For the rest of you hitting the “cut and run” talking point, most Americans think we should get out of Iraq. All we’re doing there now is getting our soldiers killed for an Islamic state run by mullahs. You guys are the 21st century version of “just one more year in Vietnam”.

It is unfortunate for everyone. It takes the edge off the republicans and makes them sloppy and complacent, and I think it drives the demcrats to distraction and madness causing outbursts like Murtha’s.

Anyway, i am sure this post of yours will be prescient, and I look forward to more republican seats in the fall…..

According to Democrats, it doesn’t matter if it can be explained, unless of course you’re Harry Reid. You want to make it stick- it has to stick to Reid too, but then it wouldn’t be an all Republican scandal. Quite the catch-22.

(You can bark all you want that Abramhoff never gave a dime to Harry Reid all you want. Semantics. Abramhoffs personal contributions to Republicans have never been part of the legal problem. Only the contributions from the clients are under scrutiny.)

The problem on the Ports deal for Democrats is, how can the knee jerk anti-Arab reaction of Democrats be reconciled? Of course the talking point is already is to blame Republican fear mongering, but that is just admitting weakness of will AND agenda.

Plus you have Former Presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton supporting the UAE on this one. You’d think that would be a little more problematic for Senator Clinton- as in top headlines about it in every major paper in the country and top stories on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC. I mean imagine if Bush senior were advising the UAE on how to make the deal go through after being paid by the Kingdom to make speeches and taking a cool half Mil for his Presidential Library. Oliver would be having a field day with that one. But he is mysteriously silent when his idol Bubba is on the other side of the kryptonite.

And Oliver- as much as the Stem-cell issue is important, I would be hard pressed to call it a turning point issue. But it is one that can be exploited by both sides, although if people were really paying attention, there have been breakthroughs that may make the embryonic stem cell debate moot (I’ll have to find those articles for you.)

Besides- there is plenty of stem cell research going on. It’s just not as extensive in the one section of the field that you’re really talking about. And the breakthroughs that could help avoid the destruction of embryos and still continue the research are already happening.

I suspect Irish Coffee is the inspiration for the early morning pique.

I’m no fan of what the IRA became, but I do wonder what the hell
England was doing in Ireland? Were they there to keep the
Protestants and Catholics from killing each other?

Not saying there is a direct correllation to Iraq, but think maybe
comparing americans to WWII Frenchmen who collaborated with
the Nazis is a little off the wall. Don’t you?

“strategic redeployment” indeed!

Be honest. Admit you want to cut and run. Quit. All the terrorists/insurgents have to do is turn up the heat, and the left (and the reactionary right) is ready to quit. Boy that doesn’t send any messages to the other side, does it (notice, no question mark there).

Duggre, Les Francois employvouxed les “strategic redeployment” strategois in la Grand Guerre II a la Vichy (parlez vous, mon ami?).

Oliver. You didn’t say why you were offline.

The real missed opportunity for Democrats – especially political opportunists like Hillary Clinton – was their failure to balance “retreat from Iraq” with a more comprehensive understanding of national security (instead of cutting off their noses to spite their faces on the US ports deal). Now, they’re compounding their strategy for defeat by joining Pat Buchanan-Republicans in the patently absurd and unsustainable attempt to Americanize all “strategic infrastructure” in the US. Talk about deserving to lose…. (In fact, all of those who are just now discovering that America has been “outsourcing national security” for decades should lose their seats just for being so stupid!)

Strategic redeployment from Iraq (aka the Murtha plan)

Let’s see…OW’s link says:

The redeployment of US forces should take place in two phases. Phase one would take place in 2006, with the drawdown of 80,000 troops by the end of the year, leaving 60,000 US troops in Iraq by December 31,
2006. Phase two would take place in 2007, with most of the US forces departing by the end of 2007.

So this plan calls for a two year withdrawal. But Murtha wants all troops out in 6 months.
“aka the Murtha plan” … keep spinning OW.