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Gives a speech about Iraq today, as chaos reigns, and its the same old rhetoric – not one deviation from the message that no longer resonates outside of the conservative cult.
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ArchNeocon Fukuyama now says ‘we were wrong to invade Iraq”.
Where is Perle, Wolfie et al? Strangely, crickets abound in the
neocon world as Civil War continues to worsen the plight of Iraq.
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=266122006
JWG;
The question remains, and is not rhetorical;
When will the NeoCons admit they were wrong on Iraq?
Where is Perle, Wolfie et al?
They’d send our last child to die in Iraq before they’d ever admit it was a mistake.
Curmudgeon: you have any children?
I thought not…
Yes, the same Fukuyama who called for Rumsfeld’s resignation and said he wouldn’t vote for Bush in 2004. Were have you been?
OK, so for the presently tedious and semantically challenged monkey, the question becomes this: when will the Neocons think they were wrong? I’m betting that time won’t come until after all human life in the Sunni Triangle has been extinguished. The Neocons are extremely adamant about their rightness, you know.
Curmudgeon: you have any children?
I thought not&
Frank,
Can you fathom feeling empathy for other’s who have loss children?
I thought not…
When they think they were wrong, not when you think they were wrong, Cleo. Would you do otherwise?
Did you hear that the American public now trusts Congressional Democrats over Bush on National Security issues? Somehow, that poll didn’t make it on Instapundit, though…
shorter frank:
“we don’t think”
“Possibly when there is enough information to make that determination.”
Can someone please call the irony police again?
“Possibly”.
Nahhh…..never.
See, it would be a sign of “weakness”. And when you’re terrified, insecure, and challenged, “weakness” is lethal.
See, Arabs/Liberals/Terraists/Leftists/Communists/Chicoms/Charlie only respect and understand STRENGTH!!
What schmucks.
“When will the NeoCons admit they were wrong on Iraq? ‘
Possibly when there is enough information to make that determination.
Dugger
Can you fathom feeling empathy for other s who have loss children?
At least I have children, O self – righteous one…
Caring may be what liberals think they do best, but I for one am not impressed.
Did you hear that the American public now trusts Congressional Democrats over Bush on National Security issues?
No, I didn’t. And I’ll bet you’re just dying to tell me where you heard it, aren’t you?
That’s why you posted the source… Oh, wait.
bfb: I’m not sure if there’s an adjective that goes beyond “obnoxious” (”noisome,” maybe?), but you’ve done it.
Have no fear, your liberal buddies will prevent all human life in the Sunni Triangle from being extinguished, even if they have to actually (gasp! gulp!) go there.
Any walkback by the Cons will be accompanied by blaming the usual paranoid trio of the media elite, the academy, and the “minorities who are too stupid to think for themselves.” They’ll say “we were right, we had the best intentions, but we had no idea that liberals would undermine the war effort so *treasonously*.” Of course, they’ll completely overlook the fact that the likelihood of the Iraq invasion actually creating a functioning democracy was always a one-in-ten shot, and they’ll also conveniently ignore their own moral burden for pushing such a reckless, cavlier risk onto Iraqi society. Then they’ll continue giving each other handjobs for their mutual commitment to human liberty and freedom. Got your KY ready, Frank and Dugs?
Things do indeed look bleak, at least according to Lee Harris, but, for me, hope springs eternal.
And, the President is saying, “to his base,” as you lefties like to say, as if that’s a crime, “We’re not bugging out.”
So he’s not buying the Jack “Sgt. Fury” Murtha victory by evactuation plan.
Good
…this liberal’s liberal son, a medic in the army, goes to Iraq this June.
My eternal hope is that he’ll come back with all his limbs, fingers, and toes and sane-enough to carry on a conversation without him ducking at loud noises.
Meanwhile, the economy and its shareholders have decided to get operating expenses back in line with previously-unachievable (well, always unachievable) profit goals and has laid me off after seven years.
The last time something like this happened, a Bush was in the White House. Coincidence?
My eternal hope is that he ll come back with all his limbs, fingers, and toes and sane-enough to carry on a conversation without him ducking at loud noises.
God bless him. I was ducking at loud noises for a year or so. Be patient.
Sorry to hear that, Mucker. My mom got laid off not too long ago but luckily was able to get a new job about 6 months later. Good luck to you and your son.
Jesus, you’re using this to score political points? Incredible.
Mucker, why? Why is he going now of all times? Iraq is a clusterfuck.
The Pentagon is already “bugging out”, they’re in full retreat mode and say they will reduce force strength by 1/3 so the Rethugs have something to pull over the folks’ eyes this November coming.
Not a real good plan. There’s a reason why the Military has had consistent, radical shortfalls in recruiting. Word gets around.
Priorities: conservative sending other people’s sons & daughters to war and sending his father’s jobs overseas as well.
There, fixed that for you.
Meanwhile, Fox News asks: “All-out Civil War in Iraq: Could It be a Good Thing?”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/24/151558/500
Priorities: conservative — the son going to war
liberal — the unemployment of the Dad
TomY,
Did you not notice Frank’s post above mine? Can you read?
mrC
Watch carefully.
As Iraq slowly dissolves into a full-scale civil war, look for AWOL George to start pulling the troops out and declaring that we gave Iraq a chance for freedom and democracy–but they didn’t take it.
This is truly great!
Karma is the word, i believe.
This is BushCo and Rove being hoisted on their own petard. As mentioned several places, these guys made scaring the American public about terrorism in general, and Arabs in particular, job #1.
And now that it comes back to bite them on the ass, they can’t take it.
Boo, fucking, hoo.
Curmudgeon: I was responding to Frank; your reply only appeared to me after I posted mine.
…and blames the Iraqis at the same time. Like a true Conservative should.
So he s not buying the Jack Sgt. Fury Murtha victory by evactuation plan.
Meanwhile, Bill Buckley admits defeat. Damn, Liberal Media!
George to start pulling the troops out and declaring that we gave Iraq a chance for freedom and democracy but they didn t take it.
Proving that we were never nor could we hope to be as bad as Saddam Hussein… who could keep them under control. Thank God we’re not as bad as Saddam Hussein.
…suffice it to say: My son’s in the military and the military will undoubtedly make a decision to screw up his life.
I told him, “They army will probably send you to Panama!”
His reply: “God, I hope not! I don’t want to face any of those tropical diseases.”
…heh. Humor in the face overwhelming clusterfuckednessesque-ish-like situation.
Frank;
Just think. All this could have been avoided if someone just watched,
….Lawrence of Arabia.
Semanticleo; sometimes the simplest things escape our grasp.
Mucker;
I have mucho empathy for you and your son.
Long before 9/11 my eldest had been into all things military.
He focused on the Marines to the sound of puckering sphincters
on mom and dad.
He scored high on his testing and they wanted him in Intel, but he
wanted to be a grunt. He liked the idea of “Band of Brothers”
camraderie.
He planned to enlist shortly after graduation this spring and went to
San Diego for a physical. A history of asthma put the kibosh on his
dream, and though we had great trepidation about his wish, did not
oppose his goal. We are glad now that we didn’t fight it, but wonder if theoutcome had been different, we might have deduced that hog-tying
him in the basement would have been preferable to losing him.
I don’t envy any parent who must wait at home. I’ll keep a good
thought for you and yours.
So, by your logic, Yugoslavs were happier under Tito. Wrong – o, Mucker.
Non – Russians were happier under Stalin.
Hell, the colonies were happier under the British.
Wrong – o, Mucker.
Freedom – bad; opressive unity – good.
Mucker, unlike the fantasy life liberals want everyone to live, your son will find that in the military, he will occasionally do things he doesn’t want to do. Whatever decision the military makes, you can rest assured that it will not be aimed at his personal likes or dislikes.
That’s why all the documents he will receive regarding his rank, his work, and his location, will be called Orders, not Requests or Invitations
Curmudgeon: Bill Buckley called me this morning, and told me that he thought the mission in Iraq had failed. When I told him that I disagreed, he said he would never speak to me again. But then I told him that my National Review was up for renewal, and that I was thinking of taking the two – year option, and then he said he would speak to me after all. See, conservatives can agree to disagree.
N.B. Mr. Buckley didn’t call for immediate withdrawal of all American troops, to hide behind a hill until we decide to go back in again (like that might ever happen).
TomY: You made the mistake of misinterpreting curmudgeon’s insulting of me, because he misinterpreted what I said, so he insulted you.
And the beat goes on. Wonderful.
“Possibly when there is enough information to make that determination.”
Frank – you can’t possibly be serious are you?
The WFBuckley column is interesting I must say, especially his reasoning for why he thinks this wasn’t just a total screw-up.
“The accompanying postulate was that the invading American army would succeed in training Iraqi soldiers and policymkers to cope with insurgents bent on violence. This last did not happen.”
How could they when they disbanded the army and did not guard the ammunition depots until it was apparently too late? Instead they used valuable resources hunting for weapons of mass destruction that had either long since vanished or didn’t exist in the first place.
“And the administration has, now, to cope with failure. It can defend itself historically, standing by the inherent reasonableness of the postulates.”
Mr Buckley is no doubt a very intelligent person and I suppose he is trying to put the best face on it he can. But this story doesn’t sell to someone who was paying any attention to this administration’s actions and words during the build up to go to war. And, after defying the United Nations to go there in the first place, its no wonder they could not get any support for peace keeping.
This is not anything to be happy about for sure. Our thoughts and prayers should be with our soldiers who are having to deal with an impossible situation and being blamed for whatever bad happens. The bottom line is its time for us to leave.
Thanks.
Another pesky conservative (they just won’t “tow the line”) weighs in:
Wm. Buckley has spoken, and this guy disagrees? What magazine does he work for, anyway?
Wait… It’s Victor Davis Hanson, and write for NRO…
There are righties that still think we could have won Vietnam. Like if we bombed the s**t out of them more than we bombed the s**t out of them! They still blame the protesters back here in the states for losing. They didn’t have a clue back then, and they don’t have one now. There are still knuckle-draggers driving around with W’04 stickers; not as many as right after the election mind you, but there are still quite a few still drinking the Kool-Aid. Maybe I could make some money selling W’04 sticker remover solution?
They will NEVER, EVER, NOT IN A MILLION YEARS admit it was a mistake.
This all could have been avoided if the Muslims had won at Tours and Vienna. We’d all be Muslims now, Allah be praised!
Like they said during Viet Nam, “If the liberals planned World War II, we’d all be speaking German now.”
More good news from Iraq.
http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-us-iraqi-army,0,6866755.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines
JK;
Don’t fret. It’s just Frank’s “Liberal hate”
>>Like they said during Viet Nam, If the liberals planned World War II, we d all be speaking German now.
Frank…as I watch you from the “sidelines” for the past few months, after our little email exchange….I’ve had it. Gloves are now off.
My uncle (who, as a Democrat ran for Lt. Gov in Vermont), whose name I bear, was a bomber pilot in WWII. (Pacific.) He was shot down, but survived on one occasion.
Nobody ever accused FDR of being a conservative.
Truman, JFK…the list goes on…
I was right a few months ago.
Go find a country, Frank, and live there. Plenty of space in Austrailia.
The above bile from you isn’t accurate, and it isn’t respectfull of those who fought and died in WWII.
Most of all, it’s Un-American.
Leave. Austrailia beckons, you creep.
JK
JK: I’m staying right here, in the country where my grandfather went through gas attacks in WW!, where my father and three of my uncles came home from WW II with PTSD, and my father’s cousin was a medic from Normandy to the Bulge.
You have no toehold on patriotism, JK, and you can call me all the names you want. It’s what liberals do, don’t you know…
The only people who blame America first are liberals. The only people who think that conservatives don’t even deserve a place at the table, are liberals. The only people who people who “know” everything, while asserting that conservative have misguided opinions are liberals.
That’s what I know, that’s what I’ve experienced since I became politically conscious after the Kennedy assassination, an event liberals don’t even associate with the left, even though Oswald actually defected to the Soviet Union and was an avowed Castro sympathizer.
You got the gloves off? Good, keep ‘em off. It’s the only way you can wash the blood off them, because of stupid liberal geopolitics (see FDR at Teheran, for example).
To repeat, I ain’t going nowhere.
As a follow up, to my above rant….reading Frank’s other extraordinarily mean-spirited entries in this thread….I have to simply say that I find it revolting that there are people out there, like Frank, who believe that the only people who makes sacrifices in service of their country, or have empathy for those who do so, are conservative. Even if a half-hearted attempt at humor, it’s just not that funny.
This has long been a major hackle raiser. This crap has to stop.
I wonder if Frank has had a chance to survey the political affiliations of all of the families of African-Americans who died serving in Vietnam and Iraq? In the case of the former, I’d also remind Frank that service wasn’t voluntary for many of them.
JK
Oh, yes, Paul, you’ve got style… Making fun of my grandfather!
Are you sure you haven’t mistaken me for someone who ran over your dog?
My grandfather got a personally signed letter from President Kennedy (you like him, remember?) for his sacrifice in suffering mustard gas attacks in France (got more yuks for that, Paul?).
You see, he came here from England, became an American citizen (not an “undocumented worker”), then got special permission to fight for the British in 1914. When the Americans got into World War I, he then got permission to leave the British Army, and fight for the American Army, where he was subject to the aforementioned gas attacks (still laughing, Paul?)
What’s the matter, Paul, couldn’t think of any good PTSD jokes? Or haven’t you looked up what the initials stand for?
My father’s waking up screaming almost every night for almost five years would have had you doubled over in laughter, I’m sure.
Oh, yeah, Paulie baby, you’ve got class!
“I m staying right here, in the country where my grandfather went through gas attacks in WW! …”
And which country would that be, Frank? France or Germany? Or are you just talking about his indigestion?
you can call me all the names you want. It s what liberals do, don t you know&
What do you call it when you do the namecalling, Frank_D?
You see what happens when you make a decision that a person isn’t “worthy” of your respect? I have no reason to expect anything but the worst from you. I have no reason to believe you might be anything but serious about the slightest offensive remark.
I have no reason to like you, or trust you, or believe you, or ever to expect anything but the worst from you.
Believe me, that’s the way it’s going to be for a long time. Because you never change. You can’t be a decent person, and you’ve made it quite clear to me, on several occasions, that you owe me no respect, nor will you show me any.
You are reaping what you have sown. Enjoy it! It seems you always have…
Frank, you dipshit, re-read your sentence. I’m making fun of you.
BTW, It took me a long time to respond because I was looking for some film clips of PTSD victims. I figured you needed a laugh before you went to bed.
Jebbo-Kriminey, this is worse than artillery practice.
Bull’s eye!
…ah, let’s see if this link works.
I call it retaliation.
First you made up a link that went nowhere.
Then you linked to the same place twice.
Now, go back abot 4 or 5 years, and find the place where someone posted a comment, and I called them a name, before they called me a name.
Take all the time you want, but not too long. I am going on 60, with a life expectancy of about 80. So, see if you can find one in less than twenty years. See you later.
“You ve made it quite clear to me, on several occasions, that you owe me no respect, nor will you show me any.”
And why should I? Let’s just take one issue: Torture. You support it. I think that as long as you support the torture of another human being you can just sit down and shut the fuck up about being called a moron, idiot, dipshit, etc. by jusy about anyone. Your very belief system is a vulgarity Frank.
What Frank is completely forgetting is what they used to say in Vietnam about GW Bush, and it is still true today: “if GW Bush was running World War II we would have invaded Turkey on D Day. Oh, who are we kidding, like GW Bush would ever show up to serve his country.”
What exactly does the service records of Frank D’s ancestors have to do with how Bush has completely fucked up Iraq? You can’t transfer blame to them and they can’t help.
I think some folks spend WAY too much time on the internet. This blog in particular.
So Frank, have you really been working on this retailiation thing for two whole years? That’s really neat! Most folks would have gotten bored and started collecting stamps or something. And you’re planning on keeping it up for twenty more years? Have you spoken to the Guinness people? There may be a place in their book for you. Kudos for your stick-to-it-ivity! And here I thought you were just another sad little troll. You have truly earned my respect, sir! My sincere apologies are extended for all the bad things I’ve said about you, and I pray that all the other visitors to this forum will also grant you the respect and admiration that you so heartily deserve as you seek to set right all the wrongs that you have suffered. Because, you know, it really is all about you, right?
That s why all the documents he will receive regarding his rank, his work, and his location, will be called Orders, not Requests or Invitations
You mean like when AWOL George decided not to report for a mandatory flight physical, Frankie?
“The rest of you, btw, have no idea what this is about just as you have no idea what anything is about.”
The irony of your whine about not receiving respect for your opinions
is, no doubt, beyond the pale of your understanding.
frameone: I have made it quite clear on more than one occasion that you don’t have to respect me (although how direspect necessarily follows disagreement, I must admit, eludes me — are you listening, JadeMold?).
What I was saying to you was “If you do what you did, you will get what you got.” Look at your 12:04 comment: Frank, you dipshit [totally gratuitous insult, requiring profanity, which, might, just might, imply that there was a misunderstanding on my part [which, of coure, calls for me to be insulted, yet again] re-read your sentence [look again, Frank, see what you have done]. I m making fun of you [don't you get it?].
And the best part? I “deserve” this response! Why? Because I disagree with you on the issue of torture.
Makes sense to me, in a spooky, sadistic, arrogant, grandiose, condescending and mean – spirited (on your part) way.
The rest of you, btw, have no idea what this is about — just as you have no idea what anything is about.
(Another example of the LIBERAL point of view that disrespect necessarily follows disagreement):
Jadegold accomplishes three totally unnecessary tasks in one comment: 1) He somehow “latches on” to my comment to make a comment about something completely unrelated.
2) It is, of course, gratuitous Bush – bashing, and
3) He refers to me disrespectfully, for absolutely no reason, despite the fact that I have asked him / her / it on at least a half a dozen occasions to stop it. Of course, he has never provided an explanation or justification as frameone has done, even on those blogs where he has been banned for doing the same thing. Actually, I can’t be sure if that makes his position “better” or “worse” than frameone’s.
Certainly, both positions are juvenile and pusillanimous.
I suppose I do have one problem that plays a role in this: I find it difficult, if not impossible, to ignore people who behave like obnoxious pricks.
As are your most of comments, I suspect, right, Cleo?
I wasn’t even asking for respect. Perhaps if you were getting treated by certain individuals the way that I am you would compose one of your classic incomprehensible posts containing multisyllabic non sequiturs in lieu of common sense.
Notice that I responded to their (uncalled for) insults, as I am now responding to your (uncalled for) insult.
Are you sensing a pattern?
Brother. You ask for compassion and empathy?
The very ground you walk on was *not*fought for, with great sacrifice, by a donkey or elephant. By “symbols” of political ideology.
It was fought for, by individuals, with great sacrifice…each with a story to tell.
I’m outraged, frankly (no pun intended), that my cousins (Vietnam), Uncle (WWII), fought for you, Frank….but I temper that outrage with the understanding that they fought so that people as as ill-informed, predjudicial, and ignorant as you could say the illogical, mean-spirited things you say about people who disagree with you politically.
If I had my way….my vote would be to send you packing to Austrailia, because my relatives and forefathers have already sacrified way to much for the likes of you. But this is the U.S.A., so, unfortunately, you get to stay and continue to say hateful things about liberals who have fought and died for you.
Politics has gone too far when you can’t get past the idea that a person who disagrees with you politically doesn’t love America. In Frank’s case, he goes further, he says if you aren’t a conservative, not only do you not love America, you’re not willing to protect or defend it.
So, Frank…what’s it going to be? A lifetime of wonder and joy in the Outback? Or, more of the same?
JK
” Perhaps if you were getting treated by certain individuals the way that I am”
That’s a key sentence. Let me lead you by the nose back to the point
I was making;
The rest of you, btw, have no idea what this is about just as you have no idea what anything is about.
How were the rest of us showing you disrespect? Or have no idea what
we’re talking about?
Frank;
You are your own worst enemy. You carry that load of LiberalHate
around with you everywhere? Must be quite a burden.
Lighten the load a little. Focus on your BushLove.
Meanwhile, you are bemoaning the fact that you can’t send someone who disagrees with you to Australia
By the way, did you notice that since your previous comment, I said nothing — zip, zilch, nada. bupkus — about people who disagreed with me, nor did I question their patriotism.
Yet, here you are, back again, foaming at the mouth, wishing I would go to Australia (do you really think that would solve your [apparently, deep - rooted] problem? I think not)
By the way, O rabid one, I can only find two entries that could have possibly generated this series of attacks:
1) Priorities: conservative the son going to war
liberal the unemployment of the Dad
Not at all vicious. My point was simple. The first thing the conservative mentioned was “I hope you’re son will be O.K.” The first thing the liberal mentioned: “Sorry to hear about your unemployment.”
It was true, and it was telling. “Illogical, mean-spirited. hate – filled”? Hardly.
2) Like they said during Viet Nam, If the liberals planned World War II, we d all be speaking German now.
Again, true. At a time when liberals around the world were trying to end the Viet Nam war, even if it meant sentencing the freedom – loving people of Viet Nam to a life of oppression and material suffering, that was how some conservatives felt. Many conservatives believe to this day it was the attempt by LBJ’s ploicy advisors to micro – manage a war 10,000 miles away that began the downward spiral in American support (not hippies, as so many lefties risibly surmise). Further, it was liberal congressmen who voted against funding the Viet Nam war.
So, was what I said “Illogical, mean-spirited. hate – filled”? Hardly.
However, you smell blood, so the attacks will continue until you get a better hobby. Try reading. At least you’ll be unique amongst the liberals on these threads (oh, durn, I’ve done it again — another Illogical, mean-spirited, and hate – filled remark). I guess I can’t control myself. You guys are just so dang funny sometimes.
Frank, get a grip. Your response to JK, which begins: “I m staying right here, in the country where my grandfather went through gas attacks in WW! …,” is a grammatical nightmare.
Think about it. Where is the ‘here’ in this sentence? As you’ve written it, it’s the country where you grandfather went “through gas attacks.” As far as I know, there were no gas attacks during WWI in the United States. So the ‘here’ where you’ll be staying ain’t the United States. Noticing this humorous mistake I responded: “And which country would that be, Frank? France or Germany? Or are you just talking about his indigestion?”
Which for some reason you took as an attack on your grandfather: “Oh, yes, Paul, you ve got style& Making fun of my grandfather!”
That makes you a dipshit, Frank. A dipshit plain and simple.
Cleo, whatever it is you ususlly do, therapy isn’t it. Go do that
JK: No. If you don’t like it, stay and suffer in a land where people have the temerity to disagree with you and you can’t, I’m sorry to say, ship ‘em off to Botany Bay.
frameone: F*ck you, idiot.
dipshit Noun. A despicable person. Derog. [Orig. U.S]
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/d.htm
Dude, I’m not the one that thinks there were gas attacks in the US. Or was your grandfather prone to telling tall tales?
“F*uck”?
I think you let the cat out of the bag there, oh civil one.
frameone: I looked up the definition for dipshit.
F*uck you, idiot. An idiot, plain and simple.
Although I think I prefer this one, in this context:
dipshit n 1. an unintelligent person; MORON, DIM-WIT; IDIOT. (”The guy’s a complete dipshit.”) insults (list of)
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wrader/slang/d.html
Frank,
Get out.
JK
leave it to Berkeley to define it. Says more about you and them, than it does about me.
I already knew it was slang, you putz
And, you must be kidding with that “I think you let the cat out of the bag there, oh civil one” remark.
You’ve been regurgitating obscenities and profanities at me for months, and doing so with the incredible chutzpah to blame it on me.
Look, you’re a scary guy. Of this, there is no doubt. Do you personally frighten me? No, but you certainly are bedeviled by some incredibly evil spirits, or aura, or a faulty id – superego connection, or something.
Suffice it to say, your elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top floor. Maybe you were the victim of a horrific trauma (like losing your tickets to see “Brokeback Mountain”), or maybe you were raised a spoiled brat, or an only child / spoiled brat.
I don’t know what it is, but I’m sure of two things, based on my own experience, not my education, and your comments to me and to others:
1) You are seriously ill
2) And it’s not because of me — or Dugger
And try not to be such a whiny baby.
Frank give it a rest.
Try not to be such an obnoxious pr*ck
Childish monkey.
bfb: How long do you plan on hanging around this blog without making a real comment?