I wasn’t even discussing that. I was disagreeing with his statement that “A war based on false pretenses is doomed for failure from the beginning.”

I presented him with three examples, if you follow the links, of wars that began with deception, and ended well.

BTW, even Viet Nam didn’t end badly, because of the Tonkin Gulf Resolution.

Yes, that is true. It is also true that George Bush stills eats soup with a
spoon, even though he began using a spoon at 2 yrs of age.

I believe BW was referring to the massive escalation of the war in
VN which was enabled by the Tonkin Gulf resolution. Try debating
fairly, Frank. That is, if you are capable.

Gee, bfb, you’re able to follow a link, and read big words. We’ll get you out of the 4th grade in a few years, at this rate.

Getting you to stop calling me a monkey — that will take some time, I think. Your fixation with it reminds me of an eight year old giggling when he hears someone say “doo doo.”

Yeah, that’s going to take some work. Of course, I am optimistic about the ability of human beings to change their behaviors at any time.

Remember, you have to want to change. I can’t do it for you.

Far be it for a mere mortal to argue with the great war historian.

Just wishful thinking on your part.

I said (why am I explaining simple English to someone approaching their doctorate in a subject that involves writing?) “I don t feel any partiular obligation to respond to them.” I didn’t say I wouldn’t… I said (perhaps saying it three times might help your comprehension, “I don t feel any partiular obligation to respond to them.”

Got it now, Paul?

So why do you rspond to them?

I will say this, the obscenity of some of my word choices pales in comparison to the actual obscenity you daily support as a matter of national policy.

Sure, Paul, you may be as disrespectful as you want. And I am free to tell you I don’t like it (I hope you agree). I am also free to describe “vocabulary – deprived, vicious and mean – spirited” posts as just that. And, of course, i don’t feel any partiular obligation to respond to them.

Finally, unless you want to come to my house, and type a response on my keyboard, I remain in control of that.

bfb: Now I’m a monkey? Real class.

Uh? You’ve regurgitated a 30-year-old argument that was bullsh*t back then. It hasn’t grown any less pungent with age. Why should anyone treat you with any kind of respect when your whole response to the situation in Iraq is to blame the people who have been the least responsible for what’s been happening over there, that is, anti-war liberals? In addition to the litany of this administration’s failed policy and strategic decisions cited by Curmudgeon above, who decided it was a good idea to shut the State Department out of the reconstruction effort and put in its place a bunch of inexperienced kids straight out of their local College Republican chapter? Think about that. Early on, this administration decided out of spite and petty territoriality to exclude from its reconstruction plan (after it finally got around to thinking one up) the one federal department most experienced in and prepared for the building and fostering of democratic institutions in foreign countries. In its place it put loyal, careerist party hacks with no experience and no qualifications. Billions of dollars went missing, the new Iraqi government is a virtual theocracy and sectarian violence is boiling over. It’s simply astonishing how desperate and craven the supporters of this war have become.

Thank you for that Rant and for your passion against this war.

Frank, I’ll give you credit if you were in Viet Nam. While I was not personally there, I knew lots of folks who were. Sadly, some of them are no longer around to tell about it. However, there is one thing that hasn’t been brought up here. The very reason the war escalated into what it became, the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, was a planned scheme to draw the US further into the war. It’s all in the LBJ library. The tapes were recently played on PBS. There is also an article at http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0805-09.htm

A war based on false pretenses is doomed for failure from the beginning. Whenever the public finds out the’ve been snookered, the support drops off exponentially. Such was the case in Viet Nam and I believe such is the case with Iraq. Blaming it on liberals, or the Easter Bunny for that matter, does not change anything. Nothing personal, that’s just the way I see it.

You can catch more flies, etc.

BTW, Rounds77: “focus on quelling terrorism the way we should have done from the get go.” And that would have been how? (and, please, not the “Find Osama and hang him” mantra)