“If they d been transparent from the get-go, there d be no room for speculation, would there? ”

I bet you don’t really believe that. I mean people believe Wellstone’s plane was sabotaged, the CIA set up Chappaquidick, Bubba ran a drug ring out of Arkansas. C’mon. No room?

Dugger

Stonewalling? The mere fact that we are discussing it shows that it has been diseminated.

Oliver, you did post on this, citing it as newsworthy. Of course, it is a newsworthy story. It is not however, deserving of wall to wall media coverage and this totally freaking absurd accusation that they had some kind of obligation to release the news earlier to a bunch of spoiled brats in the press.

Your take has been the same as the press. Let’s examine what you wrote:

So here s a legitimate question: do you think that if Al Gore had shot someone that the media wouldn t hear/report it for 24 hours? And were the police called – is there a police report of this incident of the Vice President shooting someone? Questions swirl.

and

The vice president shoots someone, and they don t tell anyone? Something smells like a cover-up.

Your take had nothing to do with any dispute regarding whether or not this was newsworthy.

As for Cult of Bush, yeah it exists. As does the Cult of Anti-Bush and you are one of the Grand Poobah contenders. Why? Anything that happens with regard to the Bush administration isn’t just a simple happening. There’s always a conspiracy. There’s always something more sinister going on.

Why else would you post those two entries like you did? Hell, I saw this going back to the campaign in 2000. When it was revealed Cheney had a bum ticker, people were saying, “We need to know the details of his health! Who does Bush really want to be VP? If Cheney dies, Bush will then get to slip in the person he couldn’t choose for the campaign!”

It really started in Florida in November 2000 and it hasn’t stopped since. This story is newsworthy. But what you and others are attempting to do is scandalize the story.

I feel like Jerry Seinfeld talking to George Constanza:

You know you really need some help. A regular psychiatrist couldn’t even help you. You need to go to like Vienna or something. You know what I mean? You need to get involved at the University level. Like where Freud studied and have all those people looking at you and checking up on you. That’s the kind of help you need. Not the once a week for eighty bucks. No. You need a team. A team of psychiatrists working round the clock thinking about you, having conferences, observing you, like the way they did with the Elephant Man. That’s what I’m talking about because that’s the only way you’re going to get better.

This isn’t real ammunition by any means, although it doesn’t do anything to combat the prevailing image of Cheney as self-centered and irresponsible–which also pops up in bigger fish, such as the Plame probe.

I interpret the description of Whittington s actions as an explanation of how the accident happened, not as an absolution of Cheney. I don t think any reasonable person thinks Cheney aimed at the man and pulled the trigger intending to hit him& so there must be some explanation for why he shot him, and this is it.

Well, I haven’t heard anyone – other than in jest – suggest that Cheney intentionally shot the guy. The big uproar is over the secrecy, and delay surrounding the whole thing. I think you’ll also agree with me when I say if Cheney’s people just came out on Saturday or Sunday, held a press conference and announce the accident…it would most likely NOT be the story it is today.

Unless of course, he had other reasons for obsfucating the matter. He is known around the Hill as a drinker, he’s also got two DUI’s on his record. So…

The other thing about this story that bothers people on my side of the aisle is that fact that the WH seems eager to “blame the victim” in an attempted “cover-up” of sorts.

This, just now:

“The fellow hunter shot and wounded by Vice President Cheney suffered a “minor heart attack” after a piece of birdshot moved to his heart, a hospital spokesman said today. “Some of the bird shot appears to have moved and lodged into part of his heart … in what we would say is a minor heart attack.”

(via: CNN)

The official line is that Whittington was 30 yards (90ft.) away from Cheney when he was shot. Bullshit. Official reports also indicated that he’s got over 200 shots in him, apparently some so deep as to engage the heart.

A shell for a 28 gauge has 300 pellets in it. The spread would have been too great at 90ft for Whittington to be hit by 200 pellets (in the head, neck and chest), and I highly doubt any would have gone that deep.

It’s obvious the WH is lying on Cheney’s behalf…which, again, just seems par for the course. Which should upset *all* reasonable people of any political persuasion.

Oh please, the Bush cult will go down in history as one of the most intense ever.

Well, yes, but not exactly in the manner you think. The Cult of Bush is actually the Cult of BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome). It’s the group of people who hear the word Bush and start foaming at the mouth.

No one is absolving Mr Cheney for being responsible for the shooting; there is some explanation of how the accident occurred. That explanation should not have been made, because it has just given the BDS infected more froth for the mouth, to say, “See? They’re blaming the victim!” This Administration doesn’t do all that well when it comes to dealing with the media because, for some odd reason, they seem to think that the media are fair.

“I still think you re a paid RNC hack. And if not, you should be. ‘

Don’t just think it. Where have you been? I have long acknowledged my alignment with the RNC. Well, to be specific, with a certain highly-placed Mr. R who pays me $10 a post.

Plus. Plus. I never said this: “that you felt that Bush had not made any mistakes in Iraq.” Feel free to look it up. I may have said I don’t know of any mistakes in Iraq (which would stem from my belief that we will not know the worth of the Iraq action for a few years). But that ain’t the same.

Dugger, High Priest of the Bush Cult. Please join me in chanting:

kalla walla wooly woot, fruit juicy. fruit juicy. Halliburton, halliburton. Halliburton on the river rock brawla brawla soosa. All praise frat boy. All praise frat boy. kalla walla wooly woot. wooly woot.

Add them up to equal Incompetence.

For Goodness sakes, has Gore even seen Fahrenheit 9/11?!?

Agreed 100% regarding the responsibility of the shooter. It’s absolute.

I interpret the description of Whittington’s actions as an explanation of how the accident happened, not as an absolution of Cheney. I don’t think any reasonable person thinks Cheney aimed at the man and pulled the trigger intending to hit him…so there must be some explanation for why he shot him, and this is it.

Support does not equal cult following.

What appears to be at the center of this fray is Dick Cheney’s political viability.

Liberals see this as a chance to go for Cheney’s jugular and destroy him politically. Conservatives ask (rightly, in my opinion) why a hunting accident, which has no affect on Cheney’s duties as VP, should be cause for him to resign — as many on the Left and in the press have suggested.

It’s simply another in the continuing series of everyday events that are excused as accidents or ignorance by one party, but seen as crimes or incompetence by the opposing party.

And liberals should be ready to explain why they will try to use this accident to end Cheney’s career, while at the same time giving Ted Kennedy a pass on Chappaquiddick.

Agreed. But that in no way absolves Cheney here, and I think you might agree. I come from a family of hunters, and there are several things about this story that bother me.

1) Cheney knew Whittington went to go retrieve a bird. Any party I’ve hunted with would have stopped hunting at that point and waited for him to return. Was Cheney so eager to blast things out of the sky that he couldn’t hold fire? Was he trying to beat his record of 70 kills in one day?

2) WH says it’s the victim’s fault because he “didn’t announce himself”. That can be a problem. But dogs don’t announce themselves either, which is why you have to know your surroundings and establish safe zones of fire. Furthermore, I find it next to impossible that a 78-year old man, with a bright orange vest could “sneak up” on another man whom is most likely being protected by Secret Service. Where were they? Was the SS in danger of being shot? Lastly, Whittington was *behind* Cheney…that is supposed to be a no-fire zone. Period.

3) MOST IMPORTANT: (and this is a rule my family and hunting associates live by) If you shoot somebody, it’s YOUR fault. Unless that person physically *jumps* in front of your gun as you fire, you, as the shooter are responsible for your bullet. For Cheney to hide behind Armstrong’s skirt and blame Whittington is pathetic. If anyone ever hunts with Cheney again, they’re insane. No one I know would hunt witha guy who shot somebody, then blamed the victim for being shot.

All in all, Cheney’s behavior in this matter is extremely telling in regards to his complete lack of character and integrity. This whole incident serves as a vivid metaphor for his actions throughout his political life. Secrecy, negligence, blamelessness, zealousness, and poor planning.

We only have to look at his history with Halliburton, his involvement in the debacle in Iraq, and his aversion to transparency in government for further examples of this behavior.

Curmudgeon…you’ve quoted the common-sense rules of safe firearm handling. But in hunting birds on the wing, there is very little time to aim and fire. Knowledge of you surroundings is critical…which is why it can be so alarming to find someone unexpectedly in your line of fire as you pull the trigger after swinging your barrel around to the target.