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Flip, Flop

February 13th, 2006 14 Comments

FreeRepublic members were up in arms at the idea of the president being able to spy on Americans without a warrant… when the President was Clinton.

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14 Responses to “Flip, Flop”

  1. cellulose says:
    February 13, 2006 at 7:02 pm

    It’s obvious that a party will support FISA when it’s politically beneficial to do so. But the real question to all “Executive Powers” enhancers is this: What say you if your guy wasn’t the one with the Big Red Button?

    I think to say, “I wouldn’t care” would be disingenuous. This is why Constitutional limits are important.

  2. JD says:
    February 13, 2006 at 7:02 pm

    They seemed to be up in arms about warrantless physical searches of American citizens on American soil.

  3. Semanticleo says:
    February 13, 2006 at 8:02 pm

    I love the graph;

    “Without access to such materials, said Kate Martin of the ACLU, targets of FISA searches are denied any meaningful opportunity to contest the basis for the execution of the FISA search.”

    It’s comforting that the righties will lower themselves to utilize leftist
    ideology when it is in their interests to do so.

  4. August J. Pollak says:
    February 13, 2006 at 8:02 pm

    TED KENNEDY!

  5. Ryland says:
    February 13, 2006 at 8:02 pm

    “Does not compute, does not compute, Islamofascists, does not compute, wrong side of history, does not compute” *whirrrr* *fizz* *explode*

  6. Mike says:
    February 13, 2006 at 8:02 pm

    “FreeRepublic members were up in arms at the idea of the president being able to spy on Americans without a warrant& when the President was Clinton.”

    But of course The New York Times had no problem with it back then. Nor did the Democratic party leadership.

    Good thing we have them both around to protect our civil rights, eh?

    Oliver, are you now admitting that the Clinton Administration spied on Americans without warrants? Maybe the Bush Administration could hire a few Clinton Administration lawyers to explain to them how Clinton was able to hoodwink the NYT into supporting their domesting spying program. That should make for some fairly interesting news.

  7. ian says:
    February 13, 2006 at 9:02 pm

    Oliver, doesn’t the hypocrisy lie on both sides of the aisle. You do know the saying, don’t throw rocks at glass houses, don’t you?

  8. scratch says:
    February 13, 2006 at 9:02 pm

    Site=cite.

  9. scratch says:
    February 13, 2006 at 9:02 pm

    I’m in bizarro world. Is it not obvious that this is not so much a flip-flop as a do-si-do? There are two sides here. You can’t site one without the other.

  10. Wilbur says:
    February 13, 2006 at 10:02 pm

    Scratch, if there were any evidence that liberals had defended Echelon as rabidly and blindly as you Bushites have defended the NSA program, you might have a point.

    Mike links to an article that claims that the NYT supported echelon, but if you click on the link you find it’s another example of a very common sort of Republican lie. A New York times news article records what the reporter apparently found to be the case: that “few question the necessity of something like Echelon” for foreign surveillance, though many have misgivings about it’s potential use for domestic spying. This is twisted by Mike’s source into an editorial position of the Times that “Echelon is a necessity” for domestic spying.

    Mike’s source, a site with the optimistic title of “the American Thinker” is totally dishonest… or totally clueless.

    So find me a liberal source that was gung-ho about the need for Echelon for domestic purposes, and I will agree that that liberal source was a stupid as todays conservative bushmunchers.

    Until then: do-si-do? no. Flip-flop, belly flop and flop sweat? You betcha.

  11. Say Anything says:
    February 13, 2006 at 11:02 pm

    Some Conservatives Flip-Flop On Warrantless Surveillance

    Some on the left are pointing to this thread at the conservative site Free Republic which criticizes the Clinton administration over NSA surveillance similar to that authorized by President Bush. My reply: Yawn. For one thing, after 9/11 this is…

  12. TomY says:
    February 13, 2006 at 11:02 pm

    Scratch and Mike: what was agititating the freepers back then was the existence of the FISA court process that would allow the executive branch to spy on Americans, and the potential abuse that presented. They wanted to do away with it altogether.

    Currently, what’s agitating decent Americans is not the FISA process itself, but the fact that Bush has totally ignored that process and decided ON HIS OWN TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO NO ONE. And conservatives say that’s just fine. That’s the distinction.

  13. Dugger says:
    February 14, 2006 at 11:02 am

    OW (and Mike),

    Good posts.

    Duger

  14. Quaker in a Basement says:
    February 14, 2006 at 6:02 pm

    You do know the saying, don t throw rocks at glass houses, don t you?

    LOL.

    No, ian. Haven’t heard that one before. Maybe you could track down the origins.