I see the deep and mystic wisdom of Dick Cheney

Is that whose hand is up the back of Scottie’s shirt? If so, I have to give McClellan some credit. You can hardly smell the venom.

Seems some Republicans in Congress have suddenly become infected with that BDS you people keep yammering about.

MR. McCLELLAN: I think it leaves an inaccurate impression with the American people to say that this is domestic spying.

Q Why is that inaccurate?

MR. McCLELLAN: For the reasons that General Hayden has said, for the reasons that others have said within the administration, and for the example I just provided to you. You don’t call a flight from New York to somewhere in Afghanistan, a domestic flight. It’s called an international flight.

“I think people who call this a domestic surveillance program are doing a disservice to the American people. It would be like flying from Texas to Poland and saying that’s a domestic flight. We know that’s not true. That would be an international flight. And what we’re talking about are international communications.”

So transparent. Reminds me of one of the early items on Media Matters where we showed Sean Hannity denying that he used talking points… then he used a talking point.

First Ian now StWendler. Okay guys fess up. Which idiot right wing blog or on-air gasbag came up with this moronic analogy first and why are you repeating it like pea-brained parrots? And Ian, here I thought you had taken a bold stand against talking points.

What useful information is given to “islamofascists” if one says “our warrantless surveillance does not target US persons”?

Can an islamofascist conclude that any calls he and his comrades make within the US are free from surveillance? No, becaused they have no way of knowing whether the government has procured a warrant against them.

On the other hand, every time some government official goes in front of a camera or a mic to try to keep this growing scandal from landing smack-dab in Bush’s face, another tidbit of information about this “secret” program leaks out. If Bush could have prevented that by acknowledging that he was bound by FISA, it’s a shame that he didn’t, wouldn’t you agree?

stwendler: if you’re going to leap into a thread late, at least read the previous messages so that you’ll know which of your idiot talking points have already been smacked down repeatedly. Don’t waste our time.

Oh, and another interesting tidbit… Since the NSA and the CIA were successful in getting most foreign calls routed through the US (ie a call from Pakistan to Afghanistan might be routed through the US), do OW and th Moonbats (cool band name or WHAT?!) think that intercepting this communication when it passes through the switches of AT&T is a violation of FISA? Just curious… because, using the definition of “domestic” in use by the media, this would certainly fit under that category.

The main disconnect is the recognition that WE ARE AT WAR. We’re talking past each other…

ANOTHER ELEGANT HYPOTHESIS….THEY DON’T WANT TO TELL PEOPLE WHO THEY ARE LISTENING TO!

WHY GIVE THE ISLAMOFASCIST ANY MORE INFO THAN THEY ALREADY HAVE?

Except that (as I keep saying), if they had such a simple defense available to them, they certainly would have used it by now. Saying “we are only targeting non-US persons” would reveal no operational secrets that haven’t already been revealed.

What reason is there to refrain from such an defense while advancing numerous weaker ones, inflaming the controversy and revealing numerous operational details in the process? Can you think of one, Pedro, even hypothetically?

I can think of two extremely elegant hypotheses: either they have something to hide or they are breathtakingly incompetent and arrogant at the same time. There’s absolutely no evidence to contradict either hypothesis, and either would be quite consistent with past behavior of this administration.

From the FISA statute:

(f)  Electronic surveillance means
(1) the acquisition by an electronic, mechanical, or other surveillance device of the contents of any wire or radio communication sent by or intended to be received by a particular, known United States person who is in the United States, if the contents are acquired by intentionally targeting that United States person, under circumstances in which a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would be required for law enforcement purposes;

Now your fellow travelers are saying they are spying on US persons, and that is covered in FISA as well…and is illegal. If that is the case then lots of people are in trouble. However, there is NO evidence that is the case…just the wild speculation of a bunch of raving moonbats…

(I watch Law & Order, I know when a witness won’t just answer the question)

Yes, this from someone who demanded to know why we weren’t using the phrase “terrorist surveilance program.” Naturally, of course, Ian overlooks the fact that his and Pedro’s argument have been repeatedly refuted in detail with references by numerous people.

The irony drips as the hearing is about whether the president is permitted to HIDE SHIT FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

“I also believe that there has been an erosion of the culture of secrecy. And we’re trying to reinstill that.”

The audacity of these people. Will abject cronyism win out, in the end?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Investigation/story?id=1587307&page=1

In other words, this Administration seems to really hate doing actual, you know, work. It seems to me what’s happening is that there are some number of suspected terrorists in the world, X. X is a large number. Rather than do the intelligence work required to winnow out those who are obviosuly not terrorists, the Administration has decided to surveil them all. FISA does have lenient standards, but they are after all standards.

Mohammed Ahmed has lived and worked and rasied his family in Queens for two generations, owns a convenience store, pays his taxes and is an upstanding citizen. But his name just sounds terr’isty. So, rather than do the work necessary to remove his name from a surveillance list, the NSA will just keep on spying on him.

Remember: Presidenting is hard work. So is intelligence gathering. I think what we’re seeing here is proof that not only is this Administration incompetent, but they are lazy. One on its own is cause for concern. The two together are deadly.