We’ve certainly learned that religious fundamentalism is the domain of the truly insane, whether that’s Pat Robertson and the Family Research Council, or Muslims rioting over a cartoon. A cartoon. What the hell?
And I’ve got to say that CNN and other Western media outlets come across as idiots when they digitally obscure these cartoons. The best barometer of when you’re doing a good job is when you have the wacky fundamentalists – Christian, Muslim, or otherwise – up in arms over something because it probably means you’re on the right track.
“We ve certainly learned that religious fundamentalism is the domain of the truly insane”
Funny, I always thought it was oliverwillis.com.
Oh yeah, you really know you re on the right track when the Christian
extremists object to any comparisons between their craziness, and the
Islamic brand of loon.
Yeah, you bet. Crazy. Like a Fox News Alert.
and by depiction, i’m talking about things christians wouldn’t care one iota about. see the movie, “the message” and check out how they carefully avoided “depicting” the prophet muhammed in a movie that was about his life!
in the end, it’s about respect.
i can’t agree with you on this, oliver. depicting muhammed offends *all* muslims. you’re only seeing the reaction from the fundamentalist crowd.
Every group, right, left, whatever; religious or not, has its wackos. Robertson is certainly a wacko of the right to which he is joined by the Left’s wacko NAACP Chairman Bond, Julian Bond along with Banana Man Belafonte.
I’m agreeing with Oliver.
Something is seriously fucked.
In Pat Robertson’s defense (gag, choke, retch), I don’t recall any of his supporters burning down buildings and holding riots calling for the beheading of people.
There, I feel better…
J.
The best barometer of when you re doing a good job is when you have the wacky fundamentalists… up in arms over something because it probably means you re on the right track.
Pat Robertson, a has been TV preacher with all the clout of Jimmy Swaggart, makes an over – the – top speech, and Muslims are setting fires. Very similar responses. Riiight!
Your list is OK, but lets not forget the likes of Mayor Nagins and “liberation theologists” who justify murder in the name of political ideology.
Dugger
Well, y’all might just be about to learn one other thing: multicultural tolerance doesn’t work both ways.
Does it have to?
Actually, Dugger, it’s the other way around; people who believe in liberation theology are often on the recieving end of violence. Oscar Romero, for instance. And Ignacio Ellacuría. Lots of people killed by the government in El Salvador during the 1980s.
By that, I mean just become some aspects of a particular culture are not tolerant of some aspects of another culture, does that mean tolerance shouldn’t be sought at all, in any respect?
It seems, to me Dana, like you’re post is about looking for a reason to hate people. Or at least justifying intolerance.
No, Mr Curmudgeon, you’ve got it wrong. It is a statement that multiculturalism, the idea that every culture is equally valid and worthy of respect, is wrong. Some cultures are better than others.
That doesn’t mean that we have to hate the people trapped living in such cultures, nor does it mean that we cannot tolerate such cultures existing. But it does point out that sometimes the cultures that we tolerate sure wouldn’t extend such courtesy to us, and that we do have to remain vigilant.
Islamic culture is moving into democratic Europe these days; Muslims are getting close to 20% of the French population. The very tolerant French are taking more and more immigrants who do not subscribe to French culture, and, if they had the power, would replace French culture and tolerance with a state where Islam was the official religion and other faiths or lack of faith not tolerated.
Watch for the liberal Europeans to start restricting Islamic immigration.
“The very tolerant French …”
The tolerant French? That’s hilarious Dana. You really don’t know shit do you?
Dana;
Try to find other sites than Protein Wisdom, or All things Beautiful, or
Instapundit, and broaden your horizons.
The ‘Red Crescent Peril Bunch’ is determined to justify our behavior in
Iraq by making the Islamic people the heirs to the now defunct “Better
dead than Red” boogeyman.
Yes, there is a lot of shit flyin’ around right now, but that does not
make every muslim a wild-eyed fanatic looking to slit your throat
while you sleep.
It’s Rushdie all over again. Seriously, just once in a while, the Muslim street needs to shut the fuck up.
Those damn muslims. Rioting over a cartoon. I’m glad to hear that the big difference here is not that the Christian right and radical islam both get offended by the stupidest crap but that one gets violent while the other only threatens to (expect of course for Eric Rudolph and Timothy McVeigh). Of course, why would the Christian right get upset about anything these days? All they have to do is phone the White House and bam! an idiot Christian will be put in charge of telling NASA what science is.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/04/science/04climate.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
I have to disagree, Oliver. This is no more about a cartoon than the civil rights movement in the US was about where black people are allowed to sit on the bus. Muslims have been subjected to 4 years of bigotry from the right for no other reason than some Muslims have committed violent acts. The cartoons, like Rosa Park’s arrest, is just the trigger that’s coalescing their anger at the treatment they’re receiving.
And why should the “Christian” right bother with riots and molotov coctails when they’ve got George in the whitehouse lobbing real ordnance at the ragheads on a daily basis?
The issue is “blasphemy”. Withe exception of a few retreads on the Christian Right, nobody gets all that exercised about “blasphemy” in America. You get protests and public denunciations of “piss Christ”, and you might even pressure a network to drop “the Book of Daniel,” but mostly because it’s “insensitive,” which is an extremely mild form of “blasphemy”. In Puritan New England the crime for blaspheming the Christian religion was death. But then came the Enlightenment and now the concept of blasphemy is simply quaint. Islamic countries experienced an Enlightenment many centuries before Western Europe. But while the Islamic enlightenment fostered tolerance and science (think of Moslem Spain) it never allowed for freedom to critique Islam itself. I’m not going to get in a pissing contest over which culture is “better”. But I will definitely say that I prefer one culture over the other for myself, and that’s the secular Enlightened West.
depicting muhammed offends *all* muslims.
And I say to them the same thing I do to right wing christians who go into convulsions at the sight of Jenna Jameson on tv: change the channel.
Please, an editorial cartoon – no matter how offensive someone may think it is – is nothing like forced segregation. The test of a culture’s freedom of speech is when you allow the most extreme speech to be printed, as well as the disagreement and denouncement of that same speech. The proper response to this would be slamming the publisher and the cartoonist, not rioting in the streets and burning property.
elrod;
Don’t you remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the
the blasphemous interpretations of Christ funded by the National
Endowment to the Arts? No buildings were burned, but I believe
funding for legitimate art was cut. There is a difference between
the two responses, but the result is the same. Ignorance prevails.
And let’s not forget there’s a war on Christmas still. How many brave men and women died so that this coming year bastards who say Happy Holidays are revealed to be the God-less, puppy-eating, monsters they are.
“One Web log, nossobrii.blogspot.com, written by Kevin T. Bauder, president of Central Baptist Seminary in Minneapolis, stated in a Jan. 13 entry: “Granted, we must not overreact. And it would probably be an overreaction to firebomb these men’s houses. But what they have done is no mistake. It is a calculated strategy.”
And what pissed this idiot Christian off? The producers of the movie “End of the Spear” cast a gay actor in the lead role of a missionary. http://tinyurl.com/czg8h
I think Semantic nails it: “There is a difference between
the two responses, but the result is the same. Ignorance prevails.”
More awesome Christian tolerance:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/images/2006/20060102_wheeler-tx6.jpg
Ya maybe Oliver should have quoted Ann Coulter who recently suggested someone should poison a Supreme Court justice. Thus outdoing Pat Robertson who prayed for god to kill one of them — nothing like human agency to get the job done. As for the Family Research Council, specifically, there is absolutely no connection between the FRCs endless droning about the pernicious homosexual threat to society’s existence and hate crimes against gays. Nope none at all.
Christianity, the tolerant religion:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/images/2005/20051210_beach-park3.jpg
Oliver, why must you always attempt to do the moral equivalence thing?
Sort of like you insisting that Abramoff is a bipartisan scandal? Or that dems in congress are as much to blame for Iraq as Bush?
Yeah, pretty annoying, that.
Oliver, why must you always attempt to do the moral equivalence thing? Why can’t you just criticize something and be done with it?
And quite frankly, comparing the Family Research Council to extremist Muslims like this is pretty lame. Unless of course you can find an example of Tony Perkins calling on people to be beheaded for ‘insulting’ Christianity.
Oh yes, of course, Jay, people are responsible for their own actions. I guess that’s why these riots are being overwhelming interpreted by the Right, not as the excessive response of irresponsible individuals, but as evidence of Islam’s inherent institutional hostility to Western freedom. I get it now. When a Christian does it, it’s the individual’s fault. When a Muslim does it, it’s Islam’s fault. Thanks for clearing that up.
As for the Family Research Council, specifically, there is absolutely no connection between the FRCs endless droning about the pernicious homosexual threat to society s existence and hate crimes against gays. Nope none at all.
There isn’t. People are responsible for their own actions. Only an idiot would believe anything the Family Research Council says causes some cretin to go and cause harm to a gay person. Congratulations.
As for God Hates Fags, that would be a more apt comparison to these lunatics burning down embassies over some cartoons. But since you’re and idiot, you attempted to associate them with mainstream Christianity.
FRC is not mainstream christianity, at best its a perversion of the teachings of Christianity. Right wing Christian mullahs are indistinguishable from right-wing Muslim mullahs. One happens to be in the driver’s seat of crazy at the moment, but both sides are liable to blow at any time.
And now I also now know that any extreme behavior on the part of self-defined Christians should be taken as entirely outside the mainstream of Christian thought and not condoned by Christianity itself while any extreme behavior on the part of self-defined Muslims should be recognized as indicative of mainstream Islamic thought and totally condoned by all Muslims everywhere. That’s some great religion you got there, Jay. Love that flexibility.
Right wing Christian mullahs are indistinguishable from right-wing Muslim mullahs. One happens to be in the driver s seat of crazy at the moment, but both sides are liable to blow at any time.
Right. Let’s see. Radical Islam has been at the center of multiple massive bombings over the last 10-15 years. Those who commit these crimes are praised by other radical Muslims for their actions. Radical Islam says that a woman who is raped can be put to death because she has shamed her family. Factions of radical Islam kill women for sport. Radical Islam calls for the death and destruction of Israel and the death of ‘inifidels’ and that not only are Muslims going to rewarded for killing infidels, they have a duty and a responsibility to do so.
Now, you’re going to sit there with a straight fucking face and try to say that this is on par with the Family Research Council and Focus on The Family? Are you truly that…..retarded? I can’t even say it’’s dumb or idiotic. Only some kind of mental retardation that prevents you from using critical parts of your brain could come up with such a comparison and believe it to be true.
Oh yes, of course, Jay, people are responsible for their own actions. I guess that s why these riots are being overwhelming interpreted by the Right, not as the excessive response of irresponsible individuals, but as evidence of Islam s inherent institutional hostility to Western freedom.
I’ll tell you what Frameone. When Christians of all stripes worldwide riot, burn buildings, and call for the death of people who mock Christianity or because they get in an uproar because of some freaking cartoons, then maybe your point would have some validity.
The fact is, mocking and insulting Christianity in this country is one of the only areas with regard to race and religion that gets a free pass. A good deal of the things we see in mainstream pop culture where they poke fun at Christianity would never and I mean never take place with Islam or Judaism. There would be an outcry from New York to California. Cripes, I remember when ‘Will & Grace’ had to replace the word ‘tamale’ with ‘honey’ because Hispanic groups were in an uproar that the word ‘tamale’ was used to describe a Salvadorian maid.
And now I also now know that any extreme behavior on the part of self-defined Christians should be taken as entirely outside the mainstream of Christian thought and not condoned by Christianity itself while any extreme behavior on the part of self-defined Muslims should be recognized as indicative of mainstream Islamic thought and totally condoned by all Muslims everywhere.
Nobody told you believe any such thing asshole. But the problem is, the extremist Muslim views are accepted and advocated throughout much of the Islamic world. Most of it in fact. ‘Mainstream’ Islamic thought is in the minority. Fringe ‘Christian’ creeps like God Hates Fags are marginalized and scorned by the overwhelming majority of Christians in this country.
Jay,
Scroll up to the first post on this thread. Enough said?
Martin Scorsese didn’t get death threats when The Last Temptation of Christ was released?
Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson and other very public Christian leaders don’t regularly demonize gays?
Civil war and messianic ramblings about John Brown aren’t a regular part of the anti-abortion rhetoric?
Eric Rudolph didn’t bomb abortion clinics in the name of Christ?
Christian leaders don’t want to put The Ten Commandmants, which codifies blasphemy as a sin, in US court houses?
Christian morons don’t want to teach theology in science classes?
Idiot Christian pharmacists haven’t been refusing to fill birth control prescriptions?
Mainstream Christians, such as your moron self, aren’t trying to paint the WPT as some kind of latter day holy war with talk of Caliphates and Nebraskans being forced to pray to Mecca? Bush hasn’t used this kind of loaded rhetoric in his own speeches?
The mainstream of Christianity in this country is of the wild-eyed, zombified born again variety and you know it. Forgive me for not being overwhelmed by your whining defense that Christians are all talk. Like Leo said, repression and ignorance is repression and ignorance, I don’t care if it burns buildings or campaigns to put hard right conservative judges on the Supreme Court.
Martin Scorsese didn t get death threats when The Last Temptation of Christ was released?
Yes, and so did Mel Gibson when ‘The Passion of The Christ’ was released. Does that give me license to throw an accusatory blanket over all Jews or say that these threats are indicative of Judaism?
Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson and other very public Christian leaders don t regularly demonize gays?
I’m not going to argue with you here other than to say your choice of words (demonize) is a little over the top. You can read about my thoughts on how this subject is handled in this post here. However, how does this compare to countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran where government mandated beatings and even death sentences are routine? And don’t give me the “If they had their way…” bullshit. As much as I dislike the anger directed at homosexuals by the above three, none of them are advocating anything like that which goes on in the the Muslim world.
Civil war and messianic ramblings about John Brown aren t a regular part of the anti-abortion rhetoric?
Eric Rudolph didn t bomb abortion clinics in the name of Christ?
You are again, using anecdotal evidence to support your claim. The majority of the pro-life movement is not violent nor do they condone violence. Nor do they make excuses for it.
Christian leaders don t want to put The Ten Commandmants, which codifies blasphemy as a sin, in US court houses?
Yeah, keep the kids in the house folks. Somebody wants to put the Ten Commandments in a courthouse. Be afraid. You realize of course that this is a ludicrous example?
Idiot Christian pharmacists haven t been refusing to fill birth control prescriptions?
Again with the anecdotal evidence. And how in the world does this compare to the violent and dangerous rhetoric of radical Islam? It’s like saying somebody who is accused of shoplifting is the moral equivalent of somebody commits rape. It’s absurd.
Like Leo said, repression and ignorance is repression and ignorance, I don t care if it burns buildings or campaigns to put hard right conservative judges on the Supreme Court.
Then you’re just an ass and it’s worthless trying to reason with one.
Oh and here’s a little test to see if you’ll be consistent with your viewpoint. Oliver gets close to 3,000 visitors a day to this blog. Lately, he’s taken to saying Republicans are ‘evil’ and their motive for wanting to win elections is ‘evil.’ He routinely says they’re un-American, that they’re doing the work of Al Qaeda and other nonsense.
If one of his readers were to see this day in and day out and decided to “do something about it” would Oliver be culpable? After all, you’re the one who is saying that rhetoric and hate crimes against gays is connected.
I’ll go ahead and actually take a more conservative viewpoint on this: all of this proves that a certain subset of people has a violent history and a culture that usually leads to violence. I’ll just extrapolate a little further than most do, and blame religion and religious people in general.
Religion is dangerous. Scroll down about a quarter of the way until you see “The Danger of Religion”.
Do you ever wonder why you’re not taken seriously?
Do you ever wonder why you re not taken seriously?
That’s a laugh. Oliver’s comparing people who drag women into a stadium and shoot them in the head for sport to the Family Research Council and yet I’m the one who shouldn’t be taken seriously. That’s like the inmate at the asylum saying, “Doctor, nobody around here takes you seriously.”
Write something that stupid and I can only react with an incredulousness liked I did.
Now, if somebody could actually and truly defend the comparison without resorting to anecdotal ‘evidence’ (Eric Rudolph and the Ten Commandments??), I might take their viewpoint more seriously. But that isn’t what’s happening.
I think that it speaks volumes that Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolf are always brought up as examples of Christian terrorists. That’s two in over a decade. Now try to name Islamic bombers of the magnitude of those two — Rudolf killed a couple, McVeigh had a single (albeit highly successful) attack to his credit.
I can name one: Wafa Idris. And I only remember her because she was the first woman suicide bomber, and the Palestinian Authority was so horrified by her action they named a children’s camp after her. A children’s camp, I might add, sponsored by UNICEF.
Islamic bombers are quite literally a dime a dozen. “Christian terrorists” (and I sincerely doubt McVeigh was one; he was trying to spark a race war) are so few and far between these days, Rudolf has to be brought up every single time.
J.
I have no quarrel with your expression of disbelief. I appreciate your willingness to express it in different terms.
Thank you, Jay.
As usual, Jay, you ve failed to answer.
Answer what? You made a statement and simply put it in the form of a question.
And I don’t take ‘delight’ in using mental retardation as a stick to attack my adversaries. Reacting like I did was me just using a printed way of expressing my utter disbelief at how a smart person like Oliver can actually believe for a moment that the Family Research Council is no different from these extremist Muslims.
Ok? So, I apologize for using a disability to illustrate my point.
But that doesn’t change my disbelief.
Take for example the recent cover of Rolling Stone with Kanye West portrayed as Jesus during his crucifixion. That absurdity coupled with West’s admission of being addicted to porn probably did not go over well with many Christians. But do we see hoards of Christians burning down the offices of Rolling Stone? Are they out setting fire to stores that carry the magazine?
And tell me Quaker, what do you think of Frameone’s comparison of Muslims burning down buildings with Christian’s supporting the nomination of Samuel Alito and John Roberts to be on the Supreme Court? Is that a fair comparison?
As usual, Jay, you’ve failed to answer. Do I need to point again to the part of your comment I’m referring to? Or are you capable of finding it on your own?
Why do you take such delight in using mental retardation as a stick to attack your adversaries? Are there other birth defects you find similarly amusing?
Maybe I didn’t look carefully enough. Scrolling back up, I don’t see that comparison, by frameone or anyone else.
In any case, I get your point. On one hand, we have Islamic fundamentalists rioting and burning buildings. For comparison, we can look at Christian fundamentalists who in general, advocate strident, but law-abiding objections. However, as I scroll back up the thread, I also see some comparisons to so-called Christian fundamentalists who have resorted to violence.
You ask for my reaction?
Violence can never be committed in the authentic spirit of the divine. If anyone does violence “in the name of God,” that person replaces a genuine god with the false god of self-righteousness.
That goes for Eric Rudolph, for those who gun down abortion doctors, for the people rioting over cartoons, and anyone else who thinks his God gives him the authority to kill.
I’m also disgusted with the European newspapers that seem to have gone out of their way to stoke the passions on all sides. “Oh, did that piss you off? Let me do it again, then!” isn’t exactly responsible journalism.
If the papers were reporting actual news about what was said or done by Islamic leaders, and that reporting led to riots, I’d say the papers would be in the right. In this case, however, the papers have taken an insult and repeated it, while smugly asserting their right to do so. That’s irresponsible.
And seriously, I apologize for my choice of words. And as much as my blood gets heated here, I promise I will refrain from calling people names when discussing these issues. I just take it all close to heart, but that’s no excuse.
I’m an evangelical Christian and contrary to Frameone’s characterization, I am not one of these wild-eyed, zombified born-agains. Yes, I am a born again Christian. I accepted Christ as my savior in 1994 and make no apologies for it. I go to church every Sunday, play drums in one of the church bands, and participate in a weekly small group.
But I also love watching sports. One of my favorite movies of all time is ‘Pulp Fiction’. I wouldn’t miss an episode of ‘24′. I like to fish, play basketball with my son and do other assorted goofy things guys my age (35) like to do. I can listen to a Christian band like ‘Kutless’ one minute and then switch over to ‘Led Zeppelin’ or ‘Godsmack’ the next. The list can go on.
But Frameone and apparently Oliver believe that I’m a person that isn’t any different from some fanatic that blows himself and dozens up of people up on a bus in Tel Aviv.
Jay C and Jay T and Quaker
Good series of posts IMHO.
Dugger
Oh, and born-again and Pulp Fiction?
That one’s got me scratching my head. Haw.
This is an interesting topic to me, but this thread has become something of a muddle.
Frame:
Do you really mean that? If my primary source of exposure to “mainstream Christianity” was what I read in blogs, I could see how I might come to that conclusion. In real life, though, there are a whole lot of pretty decent people–both liberal and conservative–who call themselves Christian.
Jay:
And when Muslims of all stripes riot and burn buildings, then your point will be valid as well.
On one hand, you want to divorce the actions of Christian extremists from mainstream Christianity, while at the same time citing the actions of Muslim extremists as exemplary of mainstream Muslims. I think the point of Oliver’s initial post was that wackos live on the fringes of any religion. (Are their wackos wackier than our wackos? I decline to opine. They’re wackos and they’re using religion as cover for their own intolerance. If you ask me, that’s blasphemous.)
On one hand, you want to divorce the actions of Christian extremists from mainstream Christianity, while at the same time citing the actions of Muslim extremists as exemplary of mainstream Muslims.
Not at all, BUT……Extremism in the form of violence on behalf of Christianity is rare. Why do you think you can cite the name Eric Rudolph? It’s because such violence is not common in the name of Christianity. Frameone talked about ‘The Last Temptation of Christ’. That movie came out almost 20 years ago. It’s the exception, not the rule. And I’m not sure exactly how the Family Research Council fits into this.
Like Jay Tea said, Islamic jihadists who are willing to blow themselves up and take innocents with them are a dime a dozen – so common that it would take us days or even weeks to name all of them. Radical violent Islam is a large part of ‘mainstream’ Islam. It’s part of official governments. Muslims are routinely taught that Jews are evil and should be killed. Even when violence is condemned, it is often excused. “We condemn this act of violence, BUT…..”
Sorry, but a comparison between those who are committing violence because of some cartoons in a newspaper and the Family Research Councill is not valid.
Well, there it is, exactly as I said.
You’re saying that nut case Christians aren’t mainstream, but nutcase Muslims are.
I won’t argue which religion has the most nut cases. I can offer no reliable evidence to support any position.
Any religion can spawn extremists. We’ve only been talking about Christianity and Islam. Hinduism (by the book, the most tolerant and inclusive of religions) has extremists who burn trains full of people and destroys mosques. Extremist Judaism has given rise to assassins and bombers. Heck, even Buddhism, which is supposed to be all about compassion, has its violent side.
I once read a quote from a peace advocate in Northern Ireland (I forget which side): “If we were born where they were born and we were taught what they were taught, we’d believe what they believe.”
I don’t think math is the issue here. It is clear as a bell to any one who lives near a news stand or a television that Islamic fundamentalists have engaged in far more violent and vandalous acts than fundamentalist Christians in the last three decades.
The recent violence in France a month or so ago, probably hurt and killed more people and did more property damage than all the abortion extremists since 1973.
The point is — in how much danger are we, today, tomorrow and the next day?
I think that The Clash of Civilizations, predicted by Samuel Huntington, has begun. It would be nice if we could stay out of it, but I don’t think it’s going to work that way.
You re saying that nut case Christians aren t mainstream, but nutcase Muslims are.
No, pay close attention to what I wrote. I said that extremist Islam is a “large part” of mainstream Islam. There’s evidence to support that. As I said, laws in Saudi Arabia and Iran allow for the physical punishment and death sentence for homosexuals. In the schools, they’re taught the following:
As I said, this kind of thinking is accepted throughout good portion of Islam – ie, within the mainstream. The advocation and acceptance of the murder of abortion providers is accepted only within a small fringe spectrum of Christianity. ‘God Hates Fags’ are dangerous, but so marginalized that their ’support’ is limited to their own members.
Yes. “The nuts are part of the mainstream.” But only when you’re talking about Muslims. If we’re talking about Christians, then the nuts are not part of the mainstream. They’re “marginalized.”
Quaker:
You said “I won t argue which religion has the most nut cases. I can offer no reliable evidence to support any position.”
That’s OK, we did that for you. Eric Rudolph vs. the throngs of those who commit terrorist acts while shouting “Allahu Akbar!” The massive outrage at Rudolph and McVeigh vs. the Wafa Idris Summer Camp for Young Future Not-So-Smart Bombs. The reactions to The Last Temptation Of Christ, Hail Mary, Piss Christ, Madonna With Cow Dung to a series of cartoons.
This is not anecdotal evidence, it is statistical. And it is there for anyone to see — if they are willing to open their eyes. But we won’t yank off your blindfold and pull your eyelids open for you — you have to be willing to look at reality and accept it for what it is.
You are free to stay blindfolded and keep yourself from looking. But you have no right to insist we all join you in covering your eyes, insisting that you have the “true” perspective, without being challenged.
Just like some cartoonists in Denmark once thought that their own rights to draw and publish what they like were superior to the rules of a faith they did not subscribe to and has no legal standing in their homeland.
Yet.
Governments have no business enforcing purely religious dictates. I feared such back in 1988, when Pat Robertson proclaimed that under his presidency, only Christians should bother applying for high government office. And the repulsion I felt at that is only a fraction of that inspired by the Islamic theocracy that so many in this world espouse.
Demands such as this that all nations “respect” Islam or else is merely a creeping form of that tyranny. And it is utterly incompatible with democracy.
J.
Also for Jay Tea:
My apologies. Perhaps you can point me to the entry where I made this error so that I may correct it.
Do you really mean that?”"
My first contat with the loving, forgiving Christian right was in high school when I watched friends dissolve into mindless morons for Christ because they wanted to get laid. Later our highschool had to endure the idiocy of fighting to keep our school mascot: The Diablos. So I don’t have any problem whatsoever painting born again Christians with the broadbrush of brain-dead fanatacism.
Listen, my invisible omnipresent deity is better than yours, any day.
Please feel free to yank away. Where is this “statistical” evidence of which you speak?
Haw. How did that work out?
The nuts are part of the mainstream. But only when you re talking about Muslims. If we re talking about Christians, then the nuts are not part of the mainstream. They re marginalized.
Yes, that’s the case and I provided enough evidence to support my position.
Whew. Why was that so hard?
You’re asserting that Muslims, by their nature are the cause of our conflicts. If that’s true, then what power do we hold to resolve the conflict?