Jim

Wanting a government driven by reality and not some cracker fantasy where the U.S. is the God given slayer of all people not Baptist is not “leftist.” That is pure right wing spin to avoid ever having a substantive debate, as is “please don t start debating the merits or lack thereof of these issues. I m just using them to illustrate a point.” Huh? “Don’t debate whether I am speaking the truth, just let me use these possibly false points to support my argument?” Did I get that right? JayC, you may have a point to make, but telling everyone to just ignore the factual accuracy of your post while asserting the supposed ironclad nature of your conclusions is pure GOP mantra. It’s the proverbial “truthiness” trap.

As for some of the other nonsense:

conservatives sure understand how to rack up debt

and ruin the economy for everyone but the rich

Of course conservatives understand taxes…well…the rich ones anyway

For those that think they have cornered the argument by accusing libeals of not understanding economics

As for republican “successes,” particularly recent electoral wins, you have to look past rather glaring issues like election fraud and illegal redistricting, particularly in Texas and Ohio.

How can anyone seriously contend that, even today, that Bill Clinton isn’t the Right’s favorite go to guy to accuse of and blame for everything? I’d say just Google Clinton’s name and any widely known conservative pundit or prominent right wing figure, but the number of hits is so astronomically high as to render it ridiculous to even try to sift through it all.

So yeah, the Dems need to “move left,” if only in the sense that they need to grow a pair and stop triangulating their way into irrelevence. Democrats are sucking GOP tailpipe for a number of reasons, and one of the biggest is simply not presenting a forceful opposition party with conviction and some semblance of a plan for our future (beyond saying “we can do better” and accusing the GOP of being “bad managers”… gawd the Dems are such clowns).

Remember, Bill Clinton won because he was competitive in the South, and won a few southern states.

I can understand the temptation for y’all to blame Senator Kerry, because he was a lousy canddiate. But in 2004, Republican candidates for the House of Representatives won three million more votes than Democratic candidates; it wasn’t just Mr Kerry’s loss.

If y’all want to win, you need to either move toward the center, the way Bill Clinton did, or persuade a whole lot more people than you have that left-wing solutions are the real answers to their problems, and I don’t think that the latter course will work.

Y’all really have two problems: economics and social issues. On economics, well liberals simply don’t understand economics; if they did, they wouldn’t be liberals!

And on social issues, y’all simply didn’t understand what happened in 2004.

Yeah, I know, Oliver, I’m pimping my own site there, but I really do think that my friends on the left have made some serious miscalculations.

It wasn’t until after the GOP took over Congress that Clinton resumed his tactic of triangulation. He signed tax cuts, welfare reform, GATT, supported telecommunications deregulation, and financial services deregulation.

So it wasn’t just Clinton. It was also in part the DLC and Dick Morris.

Better is that you listen to right wing radio, left wing radio, the MSM, read papers and then decide crap for yourself. I feel fairly safe in saying OWs characterization was a gross overstatement - sp gross soas to be laughable. I work and can only listen to radio infrequently, read alot etc. I don’t actually recall anybody saying Clinton was a Commie - much less ‘the right’ doing it in general. Methinks OWjust grossly distorts every now and then to serve his ideological agenda.

Dugger

A simple message which fits the sound ‘byte’ style

of modern electoral hijinks.

http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/

So I’m not sure what you added to this discussion with your pissy little “No overstatement there”. Do you just feel the need to say anything we know you’re there. Overstatement is the bread and butter of blogging, but OW’s portrayal of winger sentiment over the clintons is not all that exaggerated.

No overstatement there. Nosiree!

Dugger, Who Still Believes ‘beloved’ Buddy was a Maoist Mutt

Being a  card carrying member of the ACLU and  I will raise your taxes didn t exactly work back in the day for Dukakis and Mondale either.

However, “Read my lips…no new taxes!” worked just fine. The Dems–and the press–didn’t bother with the hard questions then, and they still refuse to ask them today.

No, honest talk with the voting public didn’t work because the RNC
noise machine utilizes the verbatim ‘lie’ so expertly. They are
proficient prevaricators.

Indeed, get out your stick and beat the DLC too.

Dugger