Comments on: Intelligent Design, That Stupid Thing, Hurts Our Children

By: Phobos

Phobos — Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:02:48 +0000

JWG said “I m not aware of more than a few elected republican officials making comments in support of teaching ID. Are you?”

I could name you a few dozen if you are truly interested. The overwhelming majority are Republican.

Federal…
Pres. Bush
Rep. John Boehner (House Majority Leader)
Rep. Tom DeLay (former House Majority Leader)
Sen Bill Frist (Sen. Majority Leader)

State Reps& (alphabetically…I’ll just get started…more available upon request)
Rep. Dennis Baxley (R Florida)
Sen Ben Bridges (R – Georgia)
Rep Jason Brown (R Missouri)
Sen Sam Brownback (R Kansas)
Sen Chris Buttars (R – Utah)
Rep Virginia Carlton (R Miss.)
Rep. Jim Carns (R Alabama)
Rep Steve Chabot (R Ohio)
Rep. Wayne Cooper (R – Missouri)
Rep Cynthia Davis (R Missouri)
Sen Jim DeMint (R SC)
Rep Abe Deutschendorf (D Oklahoma)

By: Wilbur

Wilbur — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 04:01:13 +0000

I’ve no quarrel with your statement, Dugger, though to my mind liberation theology was more about using politics to further religious causes.

By: Dugger

Dugger — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 19:01:15 +0000

“And no, Dugger, citing one democrat who said something stupid one time about God is not going to change that fact. ”

Wilbur, Wouldn’t argue we have sinned more here, but there is certainly more than one instance of the left using religion to further political causes
(old enough to know about liberation theology?)

Dugger

By: qkslvr_wolf

qkslvr_wolf — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:01:16 +0000

Intelligent design isn t science.

Then it doesn t belong in a science classroom.

But neither is evolution when it is taught as the absolute embodiment of truth

I have been studying evolution for 25 years and I am a science teacher. I have never seen evolution presented as absolute in terms of anything. In fact, I consistently read about the problems within evolutionary theory that scientists are investigating and debating& just like gravitation theory, kinetic theory of atomic structure, and germ theory. Let me know when something better comes along.

JWG, this is the first thing you have ever written that I really *enjoyed* reading. Thank you for restoring my faith that everyone does have humanity.

By: gammarock

gammarock — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:01:10 +0000

Not to mention, Dugger, this same so called Democrat endordsed Bush in 2000. Huck huck.

By: bryan

bryan — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:01:44 +0000

ID begs one question, if it is to be regarded as science: Where did the designer come from and who designed him/her?

By: Wilbur

Wilbur — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 04:01:28 +0000

jwg issues the following invitation:

let s use the evolution/creationism debate to bash republicans

Okay, if you insist…

From the poll you cite…

God created humans in present form

Kerry voters: 47%
Bush voters: 67%

Favor teaching creationism alongside evolution

Kerryvoters: 56%
Bush voters: 71%

Favor teaching creationism instead of evolution

Kerry voters: 24%
Bush voters: 45%

Moral: thanks to decades of poor science education, most Americans, including most democrats, are ignorant about science.

But republicans are ignorant with a vengeance.

In fact, republican ignorance wins in a landslide.

And only one party has a leadership (including a sitting president) that has publicly advocated crypto-creationism.

So yes, it’s a republican problem.

And no, Dugger, citing one democrat who said something stupid one time about God is not going to change that fact.

By: elrod

elrod — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:01:55 +0000

Polling on the evolution question is screwed up. The question should have been, “Should US schools teach intelligence design in biology class as an alternative theory to evolution?” Not, “Should intelligence design be taught parallel to evolution?” I have no problem teaching intelligent design in a course on comparative religion or mythology. But until there is actual science behind, it doesn’t belong in a science class. I bet that more than 90% of secular liberals believe that it doesn’t belong in a science class.

By: Impor

Impor — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:01:16 +0000

This just in, a headline from the Neuvo Leon Tiempo, July, 1492….Goodbye Columbus! Polls show 75% of Spanish population believe earth to be flat……..Women, Slaves and non-catholics were not included in this survey.

By: Mike

Mike — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:01:57 +0000

Oliver writes,

“I can t wait for the first generation of intelligent design-mangled kids hitting the real world of science and realizing that the idiotic nonsense they ve been taught has left them unprepared for reality.”

Ever hear of “junk science,” Oliver?

Evolution, as it is integrated into educational curricula, is largely junk science, particularly because its supporters refuse to acknowledge the inherent problems that evolution — and every other scientific theory — possesses.

When theory becomes dogma, it isn’t science any more. When supporters of an idea successfully block any attempt to challenge that idea, to point out its flaws, to make a list of areas that need further study, then their ideas are no longer science.

Intelligent design isn’t science. But neither is “evolution” when it is taught as the absolute embodiment of truth.

By: Oliver Willis

Oliver Willis — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:01:49 +0000

When supporters of an idea successfully block any attempt to challenge that idea, to point out its flaws, to make a list of areas that need further study, then their ideas are no longer science.
I agree, which is exactly what the ID people do.

By: mjb

mjb — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:01:47 +0000

Mike, evolution is, and should be, taught like relativity and other well established scientific theories are taught. Would you go into the minor differences of opinion that scientists at a very high level of understanding have? No, you would teach what is widely accepted, realizing that almost no theory is totally complete. There are no “inherent” problems with evolution. There are things that the theory cannot explain which do not contradict the meat and potatoes of the theory, which most lay people couldn’t understand if we tried anyway. There is nothing being taught in schools that isn’t accepted by 99.9% of evolutionary biologists. NO serious scientist would claim that expected gaps in any theory invalidates the well-founded basis of the theory.

By: JWG

JWG — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:01:23 +0000

Intelligent design isn t science.

Then it doesn’t belong in a science classroom.

But neither is evolution when it is taught as the absolute embodiment of truth

I have been studying evolution for 25 years and I am a science teacher. I have never seen evolution presented as “absolute” in terms of anything. In fact, I consistently read about the problems within evolutionary theory that scientists are investigating and debating…just like gravitation theory, kinetic theory of atomic structure, and germ theory. Let me know when something better comes along.

By: mjb

mjb — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:01:20 +0000

There is only one party that panders to religious fundamentalists, either explicitly or implicitly, so don’t create balance where this is none. ps. you seem to be right about hastert and cheney, can’t find what I thought they had said, could have been thinking of someone else.

By: The Concordian

The Concordian — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:01:33 +0000

Ultimately, the problem is with the public rather than politicians because school curricula [are] driven by local citizens more than politicians.

Agreed. I believe it was George Carlin who said “The public sucks. Fuck hope!” Sometimes, I’m not so sure he was wrong.

By: SaveFarris

SaveFarris — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:01:23 +0000

Ultimately, the problem is with the public rather than politicians because school curricula is driven by local citizens more than politicians.

Silly JWG, that’s what the Supreme Court is for: to decide local-level minutia!

It’s the driving reason behind the Left’s opposition to Alito in that he doesn’t see the role of the Supreme Court as Head Buttinski when it comes to shoving unpopular liberal ideology down people’s throats.

By: JWG

JWG — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:01:45 +0000

nearly uniform support in the Republican party

I’m not aware of more than a few elected republican officials making comments in support of teaching ID. Are you? I would agree that someone who supports creationism is more likely to be a republican, but when you have a majority of democratic voters supporting it as well…you shouldn’t be pointing fingers.

By: ian

ian — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:01:34 +0000

Oliver, I don’t know if you’ve noticed or not, but there aren’t that many right-wing Christians voicing their opinion on htis. Notice the lack of media coverage.

By: mjb

mjb — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:01:25 +0000

How are you not aware of the comments on ID? Bush, Cheney, Frist, Delay, Santorum (who has since gone back on it due to a tight race coming up), Hastert just to name a few (which happens to be every Republican in a leadership position, except the aforementioned Santorum).
I’m not pointing fingers at the voters, I am pointing them at the politicians. Where was this connect-the-dots attitude when you were defending the Minutemen against charges of racism yesterday because they shouldn’t be held accountable for what their followers think?

By: JWG

JWG — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:01:23 +0000

What comments have Cheney and Hastert made? I don’t recall their comments. I do recall several republican commentators arguing against teaching ID as science after Bush made his comments.

they shouldn t be held accountable for what their followers think

I am being consistent. I don’t think the Minutemen should be seen as racist because we can point to a couple of racists (which is all the presented evidence showed). I don’t think the republican party should be seen as “nearly uniform” in supporting ID because some high profile politicians support it. I did say that more republicans support it, but I qualified that by pointing out a MAJORITY of democratic voters do as well. That’s a serious bi-partisan problem for science education.

It does no good to incorrectly label this problems as “right-wing” which was the point in my initial response.

Ultimately, the problem is with the public rather than politicians because school curricula is driven by local citizens more than politicians.