Not saying its good, but I don’t feel that the current situation is a ‘bloodbath’ (may be semantics, but if I think of bloodbath, I think of things like the Somme). OTOH, you raise a decent point as how long we stay and for what purpose. The neocon/Admin criteria for leaving is the degree of combat readiness of the Iraqi forces. The operative word part there is ‘readi” . They may be ready while we are there but will they be ‘ready’ a year after we leave? Two years? If Iraq then reverts, and fundamentalists take over, you might well see a retributive bloodbath – dwarfing the strife there now.

But here are very few acceptable alternatives at this point – other than to see it through.

Dugger

One might consider the existing situation a blood bath, based on the number of civilian deaths since Saddam was overthrown. I assume you mean even worse than it is now. That is a distinct possibility, but the question for the US is that will our staying longer make a difference other than just delaying the outcome? I don’t believe that the American soldiers who have died and been crippled for life in this war did so in vain. But it is also my concern that we could end up staying longer than we need to just to save face for a few politicians in Washington. That alone is not worth the life of one more American, period.

No two ways about it: this is a coward’s argument. There is no proof– I repeat, no proof– nor was there ever proof that Iraq had any intention of attacking, or assisting those who would attack, the United States. Bush’s war in Iraq has nothing to do with protecting anything but the profits of the industries to which he owes his political (and financial) life.

So when these able-bodied “young bucks” get up and cheer the war without any intention of fighting in it, they prove themselves hypocrites and cowards at best, and craven, satanic manipulators at worst. If this is such a noble and vital cause, why aren’t they adding to the boots on the ground?

And to preempt the next illogical winger question that I’ve seen here, no, I’m not going to sign up. I offered my contribution to this war in early 2003, along with millions of others: DON’T START IT. My contribution was rejected out of hand, and now look at what we’ve got. So I think OW’s point is not ‘stupid’, it is dead on. If you support this misbegotten adventure and you’re able to fight in it, then you should be fighting in it. These College Republican dorks are some of the same people who call us war protestors ‘cowards’ and ‘appeasers.’ Well, tough guys, your chance to prove yourselves is here. What are you waiting for?

One more thing: notice how the wingers and the corporate media don’t hype Pat Tillman anymore. Do you know why? I do.

I served in the Marines..I was a small unit leader with the 2nd marine Divisions during Desert Storm. The basic issue in the military is whether there is a mission to accomplish. Republican, democrat, independent…it doesnt matter. individuals may have their own opinion, but the bottom line is that their integrity, honor, and the honor of America is on the line and they carry on each day. Quoting 1996 registered voters is one of the most ludicrous polls ever conducted. 10 years later, most of those enlisted polled are no longer in the military.

The defining moment in Iraq was this past December and the elections. Right now, it is important that we provide stability…so that the Iraqi government can find its way. Coalitions are being assembled, megotiatins are taking place, deals are being struck, and the people of Iraq are beginning to prosper. To leave now is to guarantee failure.

And one more thing, we are winning. Winner don’t offer truces, but those on the ropes do.

“I m well aware that a conservative s first resort is to discount the opinion of anyone who s not ready to dehumanize and execute the enemy of the day.”

Don’t feel like Custer, though, you make that remark on a site that is lathered copiously with charges of chickenhawk (a thoughtless means to discount opinions/arguments you can’t otherwise rebut) and on a site where people like frame deal in the grossest of character assassinations and taunts against conservatives.

Dugger

It is you liberals who constantly taunt us veterans when we refer to our personal military service, by screaming,  How do you know? Were you there?

Really? I can honestly say I’ve never seen that. I have never seen anyone taunt an honest-to-god military veteran that way.

I have however, been on the receiving end of that taunt. As a dripping-fangs-hippie-peacenik, I’m well aware that a conservative’s first resort is to discount the opinion of anyone who’s not ready to dehumanize and execute the enemy of the day.

The military I know don t brag about their service and throw it in people s face, like it validates their lies.

Reporting. For. Duty.

I can’t think of many people who think we need to pull an immediate retrograde from theater. I agree, we started it and we have to finish it. Regardless of the impetus for the action. Can you imagine NOT finishing the job after all of the sacrifices of the coalition and the Iraqi people?

I blame a large part of the relatively lukewarm response received in Iraq after the initial invasion on gulf war I. I mean, how many Kurds and sunni’s died after expecting the Abrahms to be coming over the hill?

After that sort of stutter step, I can certainly see why the populace would not be dancing in the street, they weren’t so sure we would be gone the next day.

Now as we begin to regain their trust, they get “Murtha’ized” (sort of like euthanized, but more painful), and they start wondering whether or not we are going to stay for the long haul. OBL knows that is on their mind too, so he starts quoting Murtha and all sorts of negative polls.

We stay until it is safe for the Iraqi’s to leave.

1) We come to these boards as who we are; it is vicious to just demean someone by saying they are not who they say they are. Far worse than calling me “Frankie” or calling Doctor P “Dr Peedro.”

2) It is you liberals who constantly taunt us veterans when we refer to our personal military service, by screaming, “How do you know? Were you there?”
Further, the “Military you know” are probably liberals like yourself. You don’t confront them on a daily basis, questioning their integrity, their courage, their intelligence, their ability to think clearly, and you surely don’t bring up the military as a topic of discussion.

They wouldn’t want to discuss it either, for the same reason: Because you were’nt in the military, and they don’t want you to feel left out.

Damn, you are one dumb m’fer…..

http://www.ndu.edu/library/n2/n00BetrosPoliticalPartisanship.doc

“. What was surprising, however, was the strength of the officer corps affiliation with the GOP. Sixty-four percent of the officers responding to the survey identified with the Republicans, whereas only about 8 percent claimed to be Democrats.”

so, 92% or so were claimed republicans or unclaimed and 8% claimed democrats. I split the unclaimed i50:50 and get about 80% republican.

so, now that I have proven it with data, does that mean you will admit you are wrong on the subject, and in fact it IS the republicans who are protecting your rights to play keyboard commando and gives us your uneducated opinions about things?

You have spent 0 time in the military. I doubt you have any friends that have spent any considerable time in the military, you present no data in support of your point of view.

Why not change your screen name to “opinion’s are like assh*les, everyone has one, have a look at mine…..”

It was you who stated 80% of military are Republican, I showed again that you have posted sites that CONTRADICT that stat. So as usual, you whine like a little bitch.

I really doubt you were in the military. The military I know don’t brag about their service and throw it in people’s face, like it validates their lies. It doesn’t. So if you don’t like being owned, why don’t you go somewhere like FR where your lies won’t be challenged.