Dave Johnson looks at the Russian money that has lined the pockets of the Republican movement (a lot of it is mob cash, by the way) and wonders how many other foreign paymasters run the modern conservative movement.
Breaking News
Oprah Quitting TV Show In 2011
As best I can tell, it’s okay with wingnuts for their Party to take money from Russian mobsters so long as they are capitalist Russian mobsters. Which they are, by definition.
What I am worried about, and don’t have an answer for, is what are these guys getting for their money? They aren’t exactly philanthropists, you know. If they are giving the Republicans money it is only because they are getting something in return, and what is it?
Distraction 101. Clinton was cleared of those far right accusations. Now, about Republicans accepting bribes from Russian mob money — I’m guesisng you’re okay with that?
Tell you what, when we start having federal indictments, and witness start running back to their homeland….call me.
So far it is kinda shaky. They are russian oil barons. But if you would like to try to get all the chinese communists that skipped the country after buying off Clenis (remember all that missile technology he thought they might like), I am right behind you.
Yea and the republicans have never even been charged….whats your point?
We should ignore this until someone is convicted? Great idea……
We should ignore this until someone is convicted?
Plausible Denialists Incorporated.
Hey, if we are no longer interested in a former president who took money from the CHICOM government because he was “cleared”, how can we possibly be interested in Bush, who has not even been charged with anything?
`I know what you’re thinking about,’ said Tweedledum: `but it isn’t so, nohow.’
`Contrariwise,’ continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.’
Dr. Pee’s grey cells at work. (The Looking Glass by Lewis Carrol)
To say Bush has never been charged with anything is not quite true, I mean there was that drunk driving incident, but in Wingnuttia that only seems to endear him to his followers so maybe it doesn’t count.
So untrue, yes, but more importantly it’s irrelevant. Stalin was never charged with anything, either, or Mao. Doesn’t mean they were choirboys, does it?
We have how many, three or is it four (so far) separate investigations into Republican corruption going on now? 2006 is going to be a good year for America, it may even be the year democracy makes a comeback.
It’s no big deal. If anybody gets charged, the Justice Department will just decide that it’s OK. If Justice says it’s legal, it’s legal, so don’t worry your pretty head about it.
Hmmm, using circular logic again. Boring…..
So sadie is saying, none of it matters, everything is relative right?
We have CONVICTIONS of democratic operatives in the clinton admin. I didn’t hear the hue and cry from the leftists.
Now we have investigations….hmmm….rule of law and all that right guys? You DO still believe in innocent until proven guilty? Oh, of course not that is “irrelevant”
Lefties, circular logic may make you feel better, but it never solves anything and it sure as hell won’t get you elected.
Using the “But Clinton” defense again. Interesting.
Soros has trained you well….
Russian oil magnates and there have not even been charges filed, much less any convictions.
Key democratic fundraisers were indicted and in your memory hole these are “disproven” charges?
Damn dude, you just baldface lie about stuff. Is this part of the new grand Soros plan? Just look for anything that might possibly represent mud, throw it and see if it sticks?
Yes, you are using circular reasoning. We’re not talking about right wing anger about charges that were investigated and disproven. We’re talking about Russian mafioso buying off the majority leader of the house.
(you see what I’ve been telling you guys about how they operate?)
This coming from a guy reading a website funded by george soros?
HA! The hypocrisy here is so thick you can cut it!
This coming from a guy reading a website funded by george soros?
Despearate ad hominems will not distract anyone from the fact that you have nothing to say about the real issue: namely that the mountain of evidence for high-level republican corruption is growing day by day.
Yea and the republicans have never even been charged& .whats your point?
We should ignore this until someone is convicted? Great idea& &
I was just reading another thread where Dr Pedro was whining once again about filegate and travelgate. No one was convicted of anything in those cases. Didn’t stop Pedro from whining.
…and yet Oliver’s not even allowed to MENTION that there’s evidence of Russian mob influence on high ranking republicans?
Dr Pedro certainly is a good little GOP whore, isn’t he?
We all know your game, Pedro. Come back when you have something more than rank partisan sophistry to offer.
Clinton was cleared of all the charges made from the right about him “selling us out” to the Chinese. George Soros doesn’t pay a dime for this website. And I guess by your refusal to address the issue, you think it’s just dandy and fine for mobbed up Russian oil barons to funnel money to top Republicans.
Clinton was cleared, all the chinese democratic party apparatchiks were not cleared. As an earlier post pointed out, Stalin was never charged with anything either, it doesn’t make him innocent. The point being the leftist hypocrisy of avoiding the issue with Clenis, but now without so much as an indictment, everyone has their panties in a bunch.
Soros pays your salary, ergo the website
I am happier with russian oil barons funneling money to top republicans than I am having foreign governments do it. The oil barons want to make money, the CHICOMS wanted strategic superiority….Big difference.
Sort of like the difference in “outing” a soccer mom who 5 years previously had a NOC and disclosing a code-word cladestine operation that is currently running down terrorist cells.
Dr Pedro;
You’re all over the map;sounding more like Drudge or Limbaugh.
Get a grip. I know these are desperate times for those of your
bent, but it is going to get worse before it gets better. Hunker
down and protect your denial jewels.
yea, being control of the house, the senate and the white house makes us republicans REAL desperate……
Nice non-response though…
“So sadie is saying, none of it matters, everything is relative right”
Ummm, no. What I am saying is, the Republican regime operates by the golden rule — he who has the gold, makes the rule. Bush has not yet had to face charges for any of his crimes for exactly the reason you brag about, because Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the White House, though you neglected to mention the courts and the media.
Nowhere did I say this was okay or that it didn’t matter. For those of us who care about our country, the Constitution and the rule of law, it matters very very much.
there is of course and alternative theory. Bush hasn’t broken any laws.
Though this will be good for the next leftist talking points….Of course Bush was never charged with anything, the republicans were “in control”.
What a wonderful self-fulfilling dream world the leftists live in.
I care about this country and it’s Constitution at least as much as you do, in fact, I swore to support and defend it, and did for over a decade. You I am sure did the same right? Because you “care” about our country, right?
And of course you knew that Kerry took that same dirty CHICOM money that Clinton did. So I guess the “golden rule” applies to him as well?
I’m curious, pedro, when you swore to defend the Constitution, what image did you have in your mind? What is your idea of America, and are we still living in it now?
History has shown us clearly that folks like yyou are more likely to weaken us than strengthen us.
Yes, all “folks like us” did is win World War I, win World War II, end segregation, capture and prosecute the people responsible for two terrorist attacks on US soil, and preside over the biggest economic expansion in US history.
And while you think up more desperate, dishonest excuses and defenses for the corrupt politicians you support, we’ll be thinking about how best to repair the damage done by the calamatous Bush presidency.
Did I say desperate? Yes, you control the house, senate, whitehouse and judiciary, but you may not for long. That’s precisely what engenders your desperation.
I didn’t have an image in my mind. I had a document that had an actual meaning.
And I am not really interested in answering an 8th grade essay question on what my idea of america is.
I will say this, I proudly defended the rights of people like you and OW to have opinions that differed from mine, but I also did everything in my power to prevent leftist such as yourselves from having any sort of leadership role in this country. History has shown us clearly that folks like yyou are more likely to weaken us than strengthen us.
What have YOU done to defend the Constitution as you see it Sadie?
More revisionism….
The democrats fought the equal rights amendments, that was pushed through by the republicans. The Kennedy’s were some of the biggest Nazi sympathizers out there. The president had nothing to do with the tech stock bubble. And MY president has not been impeached or disbarred.
desperate,…..pshaaw….why?
“I also did everything in my power to prevent leftist such as yourselves from having any sort of leadership role in this country.”
I must admit, that part gives me the chills. I wish I knew what you were referring to, exactly. Did you shred ballots in Florida in 2000? Or break skulls on the streets of New York during the RNC convention?
It would have been better for you if you had ever read or thought about that document you swore to uphold. Because the Republicans in power aren’t following it anymore.
Sadie, I didn’t, because he was a lying, coniving con man who disprected the military every chance he got.
I never said anything bad about him in public while in uniform though either.
Its funny how you make statements about the miitary though you never served. Had you served during the Clinton years, you would have seen the absolute hatred most of the servicemembers had for him. There is a reason the military votes republican about 80% of time, and he and al gore are a big part of that.
By the way Sadie, you wouldn’t happen to be a psychologist or a social worker or something would you? Perhaps a school teacher? I love the little essay questions you like to tag onto your replies…..
I can’t help but think you’re right, Wilbur. But there is hope, as you point out. From John Murtha all the way down to my own, 20 year veteran uncle, more and more service members are twigging to the situation.
The RNC mistakes the bravery of the military for stupidity. Not being brave themselves, they don’t know how else to interpret military people and what they do for a living.
And pedro, one more question and I’ll leave you alone. You say you served ten years. That means at least some of your service took place under President Clinton, right? I was just wondering if, at that time, you defended him against his detractors with the same passion, and if not, why not?
You seem to know all the old favorites, peedro. Do you do requests?
As a matter of fact, there was no “filtering out” done during election 2000. The Gore campaign distributed a summary of Florida election law during the period when absentee ballots were coming in. What a crime!
When the Bushies started bawling about that, Holy Joe Lieberman went on national teevee and folded like a pup tent in a hailstorm.
So I really doubt that your vote was “filtered” because of a postmark problem.
The democrats fought the equal rights amendments, that was pushed through by the republicans.
Those were the days that there were actually a good number of honest statesmen in the Republican party. Those days are over.
Also, the “democrats” you speak of were southern democrats. Most of those have either repented of their previous errors or become Republicans.
Old Joe Kennedy was a died in the wool fascist, sort of like Prescott Bush. Their sons rejected their fathers’ philosophy and fought against the axis. About the second generation of descendents on the Bush side: jury’s still out.
Keep serving up the mendacious moonballs, Pedro, and we’ll slug ‘em out of the park as long as you like, but nobody will be fooled into forgetting that you can’t muster the moral gumption to say that Russian mob money in the pocket of high-ranking republicans is as fishy as aquaman’s jockstrap.
I must admit, that part gives me the chills. I wish I knew what you were referring to, exactly.
As military surgeon perhaps one of his tasks was to lobotomize any recruits who showed a capacity for independent thought.
…I’m happy to say, though, that despite the efforts of him and his ilk, an increasing number of veterans are running for national office – on the Democratic ticket.
Keep harping on Clinton, Pedro. Maybe you and your mates can convince a majority of the public that lying about an affair is as bad as repeatedly circumventing the separation of powers, but if you can it will be another sad day for America.
Keep lying, keep distorting, keep equivocating, keep deflecting. Someday your conscience will put in a surprise appearance.
…or, you’ll reap your reward. In this world or the next.
Seems like we already have convinced the public eh? Republicans have the perfect Trifecta.
And when it comes to lying, I have documented reams of them here, while you just vaguely reference me as a “liar”. The american people were not all that keen on the president lying TO A FEDERAL JUDGE UNDER OATH! See the impeachment and disbarring for those details. I have not seen any sort of legal proceeding about ciircumventing the separation of power, so that is just a bunch more hot air from the Bush haters. Whatever, hot air is cheap and plentiful amongst the leftist these days.
And idiot democrat veterans running won’t really help you. For reference see the recent Gore (”combat” journalist) and Kerry (3 months in country, then out and slandering his brothers-in-arms).
My conscious is clean as a whistle. I have no doubt that my decade of service earned me my citizenship and my right to an opinion, and silly leftist who do nothing but besmirch the country that has given them so much surely will not be able to take that away from me.
You people scare easily. I did something even more evil and nefarious…I campaigned against leftist candidates!
I was unfortunately one of the disenfranchised absentee military voters in florida that Al Gore and his brownshirts were busily filtering out for smeared postmarks. I am well aware of the sorts of dirty tricks the leftists who are “supporting our troops” will undertake.
So far there has been much “sturm und drang” about the republicans not following the Constitution. However only the democrats in recent history have been impeached and disbarred for it. I would clean my own house before I started looking elsewhere lady.
Here Quaker,
Web posted Wednesday, December 13, 2000
Florida: Absentee ballots should count
The Associated Press
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — The Florida Supreme Court is allowing 25,000 absentee ballots to remain in the state’s official vote tally, disappointing Democrats who sought to disqualify them and give Al Gore a surprise legal victory.
Pedro whines:
I was unfortunately one of the disenfranchised absentee military voters in florida that Al Gore and his brownshirts were busily filtering out for smeared postmarks.
But then posts the following:
The Florida Supreme Court is allowing 25,000 absentee ballots to remain in the state s official vote tally
So you weren’t disenfranchised and you weren’t filtered out. Another lie, a bald-faced lie, documented by your own hand. You lie so much you don’t even notice that you’re doing it any more.
And, as a semi-wise man once said:
Keep serving up the mendacious moonballs, Pedro, and we ll slug em out of the park as long as you like, but nobody will be fooled into forgetting that you can t muster the moral gumption to say that Russian mob money in the pocket of high-ranking republicans is as fishy as aquaman s jockstrap.
Now peedro, let’s clean up your citation:
You quoted this story.
That’s funny, because I thought we were discussing overseas absentee ballots. That story is about what?
Hunh.
That story isn’t about military ballots and postmarks. That story is about ballots from two counties where Bush campaign workers helpfully filled in the missing information.
You’re busted, peedro.
peedro, let’s start with Holy Joe. Here’s what he said to Tim Russert:
Russert challenged Liberman about the postmark issue. Lieberman folded:
So Lieberman was already on the record supported a lenient standard for counting military ballots.
But what was the memo that Russert was grilling him about?
It was a memo written by Mark Herron, a Gore campaign attorney, to describe what the law says. The Bush camp went nuts, claiming that the purpose was to disqualify military ballots. (Of course, if the military votes don’t comply with Florida election law, we ought to go ahead and count them anyway, right?)
Meanwhile, Jim Smith, a lawyer working for the Bush campaign published the exact same instructions to Bush workers! At a press conference he described how overseas ballots had to be postmarked no later than November 7, how they were required to have an APO, FPO, or foreign postmark. He outlined seven more laws that apply to absentee ballots.
He said:
So apparently, in your book, it’s OK for Republicans to use the law to weed out invalid votes, but not Democrats.
Is that right?
DrPedo, here is the difference: when Clinton was in office there was a far right appointed Ken Starr spending millions digging and digging and digging into every wingnut accusation that could be thrown. With Bush, there is no investigation because his politcal cronies don’t want that and control the process. Ditto for Tom DeLay with the rule changes and ditto on down the line. Only when something becomes so public that it cannot be ignored is action taken to investigate possible criminal activity, and even that is stonewalled by participants or delayed or encumbered by strange rules and convenient reassignments.
Quaker;
Pedro is more like a greased pig than a rabbit and the real
MD in these exchanges is our own Dr. Venkman, the PostBuster!
Please don’t vaporize our pet Troll, Slimer. We need him
for comic relief.
No, I meant absentee ballots, not just overseas. As the democrats knew full well, most were from the miitary and most of those in favor of bush. As my quote demonstrated, the democrats attempts to get rid of them. Once the hue and cry was raised, all of a sudden no democrat could possibly want our valued military members to be disenfranchised! As they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant.
As far as Pidge and his self-fulfilling prophecys of stonewalling investigations, please show me the evidence for such….
Here is a little example of the stonewalling done by Clenis and company though….
A senior U.S. government official has told CNSNews.com that the 1995 memo written by former Assistant Attorney General Jamie Gorelick, an issue in the 9/11 commission’s investigation of U.S. intelligence failures, also created “a roadblock” to the probe of the 1996 Clinton re-election campaign’s fund-raising scandal.
The memo’s relevance in the investigation of the fund-raising scandal has received scant attention in the media, but four sources, including the government official, have explained and corroborated details of the connection for CNSNews.com.
CNSNews.com’s sources question whether the guidelines purportedly put in place by Gorelick in 1995 for Justice Department investigations were actually intended to shield President Bill Clinton, Vice President Al Gore and top Democrat campaign fund raisers from the subsequent congressional investigations of the illegal money-raising activities.
Boo hoo. No arrests or indictments took place! Oh no! Do you think that memo stopped Ken Starr and his 70 million dollar folly? Give me a break. We can just point at the Valerie Plame scandal. Bush promised cooperation until indictments came down, then it was “we know nothink!”
It is the Bush Administration that brings the philosophy of: the American public has no business knowing what we do, how we do it or why we do it. Note Cheney energy task force, 911 investigation, Plame affair, Peeping George Surveillance, rendition, secret prisons, torture, counting votes, prescription drug plan costs, ANWAR research, EPA, etc etc etc. Look at the current case, instead of wanting an investigation or hearings to determine the legality of the warrantless searches ( a constitutional issue), top Republicans, Bush and Koolaid Kids like yourself all want an investigation into the leaker. You don’t think the public has a right to know what the government and more specifically the Bush administration does. Oh Yeah!
So Pedro, are you saying that ballots that don’t conform to state regulations should be counted just because there are military personnel involved? What if a military person’s ballot had a dimpled chad? Should that have been counted too?
But it’s obvious that you bring up these tangential issues because you have absolutely nothing to say about the topic of this thread. You criticize Oliver for calling attention credible evidence of fishy links between republican and foreigners with links to organized crime. You say we should not criticize until there is an indictment, or a conviction.
But then you post a patch of purple prose from a right-wing “news” site with one anonymous source saying …. you guessed it … Clinton did it too! Clinton did it too!
Clown!
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the leftist. We “support” the troops, except when their votes go agaisnt us (you know 80% of the time) then we want to cherry-pick out their ballots while we count the dimpled chads in primarily liberal bastions.
Luckily the courts saw right through that charade and set things right.
I answered the topic of this thread way up there , and pointed out that in spite of you Bolshie’s constant refrain of “only the conservatives do it” I pointed out that, no, in fact Clenis and his crowd was in the pocket of the Chinese Communist government.
Whats good for the goose, is good for the gander, eh?
peedro, I’ve caught you in an out-and-out misrepresentation.
The story you posted had nothing–nothing!–to do with overseas ballots. It had to do with domestic absentee ballots filed by voters in two counties. When you say that “most of them came from the military” you’re misrepresenting the facts. The overseas ballots were from service members and from civilians living overseas. The domestic ballots were filed by people who want to vote early or who wouldn’t be able to get to the polls on election day.
The story you showed us was about domestic absentee ballots in two counties where local election officials allowed Republican campaign operatives to helpfully “correct” the ballots so they wouldn’t be disqualified under the law.
You claimed one thing (and that claim was stupidly bogus) and then tried to support your claim with a story that had nothing to do with your claim!
BTW, you’ve somehow neglected to mention the Republicans’ Mr. Smith. Remember, the Republican who was busy doing exactly the same thing as the evil, evil Democrat Mr. Herron.
Of course, the Bush campaign seemed to care about some overseas ballots more than others:
Members of the military who live in Dade county must not be quite as important, right peedro?
No, cherry picking is going to specific counties that are predominately republican and then going through ballots with a fine tooth comb to throw out as many as possible.
The complaint about republicans “correcting” ballots was not as nefarious as all that. They added voter registration numbers to the ballot REQUEST forms.
What ever happened to the vaunted “every vote counts” leftists in this country…..?
Hypocrite
ATLANTA (AP) — An appeals court on Monday agreed with a federal judge who refused to throw out 2,400 of Florida’s overseas ballots, mostly from military personnel, because they arrived after Election Day.
A three-judge panel of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the ruling by U.S. District Judge Maurice Paul in Gainesville, Florida, was consistent with recent comments by Florida’s highest court about the workings of the absentee ballot law.
The lawsuit brought by Democratic voters sought to eliminate enough ballots to change the election results in Vice President Al Gore’s favor. Republican George W. Bush led by less than 200 votes as election challenges continued in the U.S. Supreme Court and elsewhere Monday.
Yup just following the law…..throw out those ballots that came from servicemembers because the Navy couldn’t get the ballots off the carrier fast enough.
I know you leftists like revising history, but I have NEVER seen the “Bush Campaign” described as “Democratic voters”…but hey, I guess you learn something new every day…..up is down, down is up…..
Pedro, it wasn’t the Gore campaign that took the matter of the overseas ballots to the courts, it was the Bush campaign. They sued to get local elections officials to ignore state law and count ballots that didn’t meet the requirements of state election law.
The Gore campaign stood out of the way and in all but a couple of cases, the local canvassing boards yielded to pressure from the Bush campaign.
What did their pressure accomplish? The canvassing boards counted:
They throw them out in Georgia. They throw them out in California. They throw them out in Virginia.
But asking for the same rules to apply in Florida? That’s “cherry-picking,” right, doc?
You keep changing your tune, but you’re still off key.
That suit was brought (at least nominally) by Florida voters, not by the Gore campaign. But I’ll even spot you that one. Let’s assume that the Gore people were behind it.
Your original claim was that the Gore campaign “cherry-picked” the absentee ballots. But, this suit sought to treat all overseas ballots in the state–from Gore counties and from Bush counties–equally. The suit asked the state of Florida to follow federal law and require all ballots to arrive by election day. That’s what they do in 49 other states. Florida, through a quirk in its election law, is different.
So what the Bush campaign was saying is: if you’re a service member from Massachusetts or Illinois, and your ballot arrives on November 8, you’re SOL. But if you’re from Florida–no, from a county we like–lucky soldier, you get an extra 10 days.
Now, what was that about “cherry-picking”?
(And still nothing about the GOP’s Mr. Smith? It seems you don’t want to talk about him, peedro. I do wonder why.)
But oddly, that privilege wasn’t extended to Democrats.
Finally, something we can agree on.
That is, indeed, a very good definition of “cherry-picking.” Now, perhaps you’d be so good as to show us an example of a county where this happened?
(Remember, the Bush campaign only put pressure on the canvassing boards in a select few counties to take a more permissive stance on overseas ballots that didn’t measure up to state election law. If you’re a soldier from any of the other counties, the Bushies were happy for you to pound sand.)
Ahem. Mr Smith?
Mr Smith goes to washing his drawers.
Right now Peedro is looking for a new topic so he can change the subject again.
Here are seven counties……cherry picked by the democrats
Republicans are suing Okaloosa, Walton, Hillsborough, Polk, Orange, Pasco and Collier counties. Other counties have counted the ballots; among those, Bush led Democrat Al Gore by a 2-1 margin.
Early on, Democrats suffered somewhat of a public-relations nightmare after a Democratic lawyer sent all 67 Florida county canvassing boards a memo outlining ways to disqualify military absentee ballots.
Critics of the memo pointed out that Democrats were essentially robbing military personnel — many of them away from their families, serving overseas in undesirable places and in unpopular missions — of the opportunity to help select their next commander-in-chief.
Also, Republicans noted that Democrats did not provide the same set of rules for Americans living abroad in Israel, perhaps because those voters might be more inclined to choose Gore and his Jewish running mate, Connecticut Sen. Joseph Lieberman.
After the initial public-relations fallout, some top Democrats — including Lieberman, Florida Sen. Bob Graham and the state’s Attorney General Bob Butterworth — reversed themselves and openly called for Florida counties to count military ballots.
It even describes how the weasily democrats (”EVERY VOTE COUNTS!” reversed themselves and asked that the military ballots get counted.
Seems to me like the other counties followed the florida law and counted the ballots.
Now, where is your evidence that Bush campaign only pressured a “select few” counties?
Notice how Pedro’s gone back to the 2000 election, instead of defending Tom DeLay taking money from Russian moneymen. LOL!
Actually your old buddy Cracker in the Celllar is the one who brought it up…I was schooling him on the facts after he tried to foist the old “media matters” memory hole material on us.
I don’t know what Delay was up to, and I am sure as hell not going to support what it looks like Abramhoff was up to.
But you have spent so much time pointing out that Clenis wasn’t indicted for most of the stuff that he was up to, so I assume the same rules will apply to republicans, right? Delay has not been convicted of squat, and neither has bush, does that mean you will stop trying to tear down the POTUS for a while?
I thought not….
Given thats the case, we have no choice but to point out your blatant hypocrisy whenever it raises its ugly head
Wait…wait.
You claim that this is the Democrats “cherrypicking, but the very next sentence begins “Republicans are suing…”
Isn’t that interesting?
Sorry, but your last post contains so many distortions and misrepresentations that only a line by line fisking will sort them all out.
The Democrats did indeed suffer a public relations nightmare.
I don’t think that memo was sent to county canvassing boards, but to Gore campaign operatives. (Your cite is from World Net Daily, so I’ll have to go with my own understanding of the facts) The memo outlined the law in Florida about what’s a legal absentee vote and what isn’t. As I have mentioned time after time–without a glimmer of recognition from you–the Republicans did exactly the same thing!
The Gore campaign could not control the decisions of the canvassing boards. They could only advise their own observers. That’s why both parties sent hundreds of people down to Florida during the recount.
Let’s be specific. It wasn’t “critics.” It was Mindy Tucker who did that. That was the “public-relations nightmare” you acknowledged in the previous paragraph. The Gore campaign set out to know what the law was–the Republicans, through dark insinuation, turned that commonplace preparation into something nefarious.
In fact, at the outset, the Republicans feared that Jewish voters sending ballots from Israel would provide a huge boost for the Democratic ticket. That’s why Jim Smith provided the same guidance to the GOP. Did you hear anybody hollering about the GOP trying to “disenfranchise Jewish voters”? Hint: you didn’t.
As mentioned before, there were service members from Dade county in those same undesirable places doing the same unpopular missions. The GOP didn’t care diddly about their opportunity to help select their next civilian president.
Sort of right, if you strike the word “reversed.” All the people you mention did indeed lend their support to providing military voters every benefit of the doubt. The results of that are here. But there was no “reversal.” Once again, you operating from a flawed assumption that “knowing the law” is the same as “cherry-picking votes.” The notion that Democrats were targeting military votes was a GOP-created insinuation from the start.
“It”? What?
In the first paragraph of your last post, genius.
Why do you think the GOP filed suit against those counties? Oh, I see, that’s not “pressure.” That’s just “getting things straightened out”, right?
The county canvassing boards weren’t working for the Gore campaign. All of the counties sued were Republican strongholds. The GOP filed suit against 17 such counties to get them to reconsider ballots that were rejected because they weren’t legal ballots! Most of the counties folded rather than go to court. That little tactic netted the Bush campaign a little over 250 votes.
Now, back to business, Pedro: show us a county where the “cherry-picking” took place?
Quaker you just took a news report, and then gave me a bunch of your opinions. It’s not that I don’t trust you, but could you back up any of that with some actual factual material?
Apparently a lot of your “facts” are way off base anyway. If the Gore campaign was just “outlining the law”, apparently it was wrong, as the courts reversed a lot of the democrats attempts to disenfranchise the military members.
I remain confused about the whole Dade county thing, as my post demonstrated, other than the sued counties, they counted the military ballots.
Pardon me for not being impressed when you pull “facts” out of your nether regions. Hell, quote an article from “media matters” if you want, but for god sake, quote someone other than yourself.
Here is your “smoking gun.” The actual memo that Herron sent–not to canvassing boards, but to Gore campaign lawyers.
The Bush campaign sued elections supervisors in those counties.
Why? Your answer seems to be “it must have had something to do with Al Gore.”
You still haven’t shown us even one example of “cherry-picking.” You haven’t addressed the fact that the Bush campaign, in the person of Jim Smith, was persuing precisely the same strategy. You haven’t even suggested a reason why the Bush campaign cared so much for the rights of soldiers from Okaloosa county but so little for those from Dade.
You’re down to a blue-faced, frothing rant peedro. You got nothin’.
Good night, peedro.
Your cite is from the NY Times….I will just have to go with my understanding of the facts…
Ballots coming from military members known to be stationed on a ship at sea, and known to not put postmarks on envelopes is somewhat different that ones coming from a foreign country…would you agree? Would you also agree that a ballot coming from an APO or FPO has more legitimacy on it’s face than one from a foreign country?
So, an “irregularity” on a ballot from the USS Kitty Hawk, might reasonable be treated differently than one from say, the middle east?
Hmm….seems reasonable.
However all these points are moot, as you will simply look at any document that I produce and then rewrite it as you see fit.
Whatever….
A link to the original memo is provided above. You may see for yourself that your source was wrong.
Want more?
Uh-huh
I never suggested that there were not ballots that deserved to be thrown out. Of course my republican collegues would not protest clearly ineligible ballots. Ergo, your slanted and half-told story above….Sorry, and unreferenced….
Hey pedro…on that whole “service” thing lets see…
Republican Service Records
Or theres this comparison
Put up or shut up.
By the way, I’m currently in the USAF.
Still no proof?
Actually, cherry-picked by Republicans!
Clearly wrong if you bother to look at the memo, which is addressed to FDP (Florida Democratic Party) Lawyers.
No, a memo outlining the law! (Follow the link. You can read it for yourself.) The GOP prepared the very same memo for its canvassing board observers.
Clown.
From Larry Kudlow
“What’s more, the notion that ballot mistakes in West Palm Beach are equivalent to ballot denials from the armed services, as put forth last night by California Gov. Gray Davis on one of the cable talk shows, is an outrage.
There is no equivalence here.
When troops are serving on the front line, anywhere around the world, the mail goes when it goes. When it is strategically and tactically appropriate, military mail is put on the next transport plane. To clarify this point, I spoke to my father-in-law, Col. Burritt Hollister Pond, USAF (retired), who served in World War II, Korea, and Vietnam, and completed his career tour on the senior staff of the Pentagon’s Joint Chiefs. Holly Pond, who knows a thing or two about military procedures, tells me that when servicemen and women are in conflict zones, for example such as Bosnia, they are actually given franking privileges for mail the same franking granted members of the U.S. Congress. So there are no ordinary postage stamps or postmarks. Instead, they merely put their name, rank, and serial number on the envelope. At that point, the squadron clerk, or whoever is in charge of various administrative duties, becomes the post office. And the mail goes when it goes.
In similar fashion, people serving on submarine duty, where ships can be submerged for 30 to 60 days at a time, have no recourse to normal postal services or timetables. Literally, the mail is posted and sent when they come up for air.
So, it’s for these reasons that Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris was exactly right when she generated an election bulletin that absentee ballots from the military need not be postmarked as of Election Day. It would be sufficient to merely have a dated signature in order to qualify. Surely, the Tallahassee Democratic attorney, Mark Herron, was aware of all this when he sent his now-infamous memo to thousands of Democratic poll workers advising them how to disqualify absentee ballots. This action led to roughly 40% of the military absentee ballots being thrown out. Efforts by Democratic spokesmen high and low to deny the memo itself, and the intent of the memo, and the results of the memo, smacks of dishonesty and unpatriotism. That’s the long and short of it”
Since few of the leftist poster’s here ever served in the armed forces (with apologies to qukslver who is currently serving in the paramilitary branch of the service, the air force), they would not understand the vicissitudes of military mail.
And note Mark Herron sent the memo to democratic poll workers. Further, it is unikely that the republicans “prepared the very same memo” for its poll workers, at least I have not seen any evidence of that.
Dr Pedro, The happy, election winning clown….
It’s interesting how Kudlow casually switches “there are no ordinary postage stamps or postmarks” with “need not be postmarked as of Election Day”
Ms. Harris’ guidance–the bulletin Kudlow says Herron must have “surely” known about–said the latter, but not the former. Her guidance as of November 13 still required a postmark.
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with your long-winded cite of Mr. Kudlow.
It doesn’t support your assertion that Democrats selectively disqualified military votes.
It doesn’t counter the evidence I have provided that Republicans found some military votes more valuable than others as they filed suit for lenient standards in a select few counties.
It doesn’t show that Mr. Herron’s memo was anything other than what you can see with your own eyes: a summary of Florida election law. (How dare those dirty Democrats ask to know the rules?)
I’m not sure whether to accuse you of building with straw or grasping at straws.
That’s correct. Poll workers are not canvassing boards. Your earlier cite from WND claimed the memo went to canvassig boards. Shall I expound on the difference, or is that clear to you now?
You mean I’ve been posting all this stuff and you’ve been ignoring it all?
Here it is. Again:
And still, after all this time, no comment from you about Jim Smith’s press conference in which he outlined exactly the same information that was contained in Mr. Herron’s memo.
Now peedro, a couple of posts back upthread, you started whining that my posts were “unreferenced.” Do you mean you’re unhappy that I’m not showing you the source of my cites? Just following your lead, sparky. You’ve not provided a link to anything you’ve quoted.
But since you asked so nicely, the cite in this comment comes from “How Bush Took Florida : Mining the Overseas Absentee Vote” by DAVID BARSTOW and DON VAN NATTA Jr. in the The New York Times on July 15, 2001.
I guess you re-read the article between 4:12 and 4:48 and figured it out eh? Must be your excellent reading comprehension…..and WAY too much free time….
You are pulling your facts out of your nether regions again, but to simplify the whole argument.
The Federal Courts found that ballots were valid, and yet another leftitst, Democratic attempt at disenfranchising out military members, while shrieking about how they “support the troops!”, failed.
Next time your boys won’t be so stupid as to put out a memo explaining how to screw the servicemember…well, at least you can HOPE they won’t.
Really? Which federal court? When?
You’re MSU now, peedro.
ahh hell, you are just going to pull some total non-sequitor out of your rectum and screech about it so here it is….The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals….here read it yourself for all the good it will do you.
“ATLANTA (AP) — An appeals court on Monday agreed with a federal judge who refused to throw out 2,400 of Florida’s overseas ballots, mostly from military personnel, because they arrived after Election Day.
A three-judge panel of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the ruling by U.S. District Judge Maurice Paul in Gainesville, Florida, was consistent with recent comments by Florida’s highest court about the workings of the absentee ballot law.
The lawsuit brought by Democratic voters sought to eliminate enough ballots to change the election results in Vice President Al Gore’s favor. Republican George W. Bush led by less than 200 votes as election challenges continued in the U.S. Supreme Court and elsewhere Monday.
“While Florida law seems to favor counting ballots, this change would take away the votes of thousands of Florida citizens — including members of America’s armed forces on duty outside of the country pursuant to the nation’s orders — who, to cast their ballots, just did what they were told by Florida’s election officials,” the appeals court said.
The appeals court rejected the claims of lawyers representing 13 individual Democratic voters whose lawsuits were combined before Paul.
The lawsuits claimed that state and federal laws, along with the U.S. Constitution, require all ballots to be received by the close of the polls on Election Day.”
Goggle it yourself, I am tired of doing your homework for you.
I have to hand this one to you, peedro.
You finally changed the subject enough times to befuddle even me. I thought we were still talking about the “no-postmarks” issue, but looking back, I can see you were right about this one.
Keep up the good work. Getting things right could become a habit.
Says the man who complained about “unreferenced” cites.
You funny, peedro.
So I see it’s up to me to straighten out your muddle again.
We exchanged several comments regarding whether overseas absentee ballots require postmarks. You quoted Kudlow’s hash of the facts.
I reminded you that even Katherine Harris had decreed that postmarks were required.
You responded by taunting:
What the federal courts ruled was that legal ballots received between November 8 and 17 could be counted. (Lucky thing for Bush. Without those ballots, Gore would have won by 202 votes.)
Several Florida voters had brought suit, challenging the validity of counting late-arriving votes. Why? Because Florida law says they don’t count! A state regulation (in the form of a consent decree that came out of an earlier federal case) contradicted the law and said that late votes could be counted.
Of course, none of this has anything to do with whether or not a postmark is required. And none of it has anything to do with…how did you put it?…“another leftitst, Democratic attempt at disenfranchising out military members”
The suit sought to throw out all ballots that arrived after November 7, not just the ones from members of the military.
You might like to know that there was another aspect of Florida law that the Gore campaign chose not to use:
Ironic, ain’t it?