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Another politician in south America with a leftist message wins office. It’s as if they’re not buying the program we’ve been selling. Gee, wonder why?
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Chile may be next, though in the run-off the two conservative candidates may team up to beat the leftist.
I’m still not sure what the long-term significance of this left-wing movement in Latin America is. I know what caused it: revulsion against neo-liberal policies from the US and the Latin American business elite. But what will come of the new leftist governments? Up to now it’s been a divergent story. Chavez has gone hard left in Venezuela while Lula has tacked back to the center in Brazil. Argentina stiffed the IMF and has seen unexpected economic growth in the process. But Bolivia is much poorer than Argentina, Brazil or Venezuela. What will Morales do? Land reform?
“Bolivia s socialist presidential candidate Evo Morales, who has promised to become Washington s nightmare, said his victory was assured in Sunday s elections after two independent exit polls showed him with an unexpectedly strong lead.
If the projected margin holds, Morales, a coca farmer…..”
And you are celebrating this guy, right? Where, the h*ll are your priorities. A socialist coca farmer who promises to be a nightmare to this country and you regard that as a reason to celebrate??
BTW, seems to me that SA is splitting up into camps of some sort. Certain nations seem to be going about the serious business of entering the world mainstream and are (for SA) prospering: Chile i.e. Others are still caught up in mindless left wing mindless machismo are wasting precious resources on silly ideological wars. Brazil is he long term key. And Elrod is right, Lula started out with a lot of bluster and rhetoric and has quieted down.
Dugger
Morales’ plan? Get those filthy gringos to buy more cocaine.
“Where, the h*ll are your priorities.”
Dugger, Morales may be a son-of-a-bitch, I don’t know, but a democratically elected son-of-a-bitch is still a democratically elected. Our priorities should be in supporting democracy no matter who gets elected. Or have I been shamelessly mislead by Bush for the last fiuve years?
“Eduardo Gamarra, a Bolivian political expert, said Morales bid to become the latest South American leftist to win election was fueled by support that went undetected in pre-election projections. Many Indians blame the country s free-market policies for enriching white elite at the expense of the majority poor.
I think there were people who didn t want to say openly that they wanted to vote for Evo Morales, said Gamarra, head of the Latin American studies department at Florida International University.”
But it’s George Bush’s fault anyway.
“But it s George Bush s fault anyway. ”
D*mn right, Hedley. How do you figure dumb frat boy does it: pulling poltiical strings in South America; tricking high IQ, Ivy League Democrats right and left into supporting positons they really are against; and establishing a sound, strong non-Internet Bubble economy, all the while?
Dugger
Certain nations seem to be going about the serious business of entering the world mainstream and are (for SA) prospering
Name one nation that has seen the majority of its population prosper as a result of IMF/World Bank programs. The key sentence is this one:
Many Indians blame the country s free-market policies for enriching white elite at the expense of the majority poor.
Bingo! These South American nations have seen how neocolonial economic strangulation has benefitted foreign multinational corporations (and the usual handful of wealthy local criollos willing to sell out their countrymen) at the expense of the masses. It has become obvious that most of them, the ones not totally beaten down by years of oppression at the hands of U.S.-backed right-wing dictatorships (and their infamous death squads), have had enough.
But it s George Bush s fault anyway.
Actually, this plodding winger attempt at sarcasm is partially accurate. This new wave of Latin American populism, led by the likes of Hugo Chávez, does have ties to the Bush administration’s blundering.
First of all, the U.S. has weakened its credibility and logistical ability to lend its usual anti-democratic aid to right-wing minorities in Latin America due to being tied up in imperialist activities in Plan Colombia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Central Asia, and “New Europe.”
Second, the Bush administration tipped its Reaganite hand at the wrong time when it abetted a ham-fisted right-wing coup attempt in democratically elected Chávez’s Venezuela. I guess the Bushies were in a hurry to get friendlier types in control of a major oil supplier on the eve of their planned illegal invasion of Iraq, but what the hell. Anyway, it is clear that the majority of people in Latin America know all about the School of the Americas, and they know who always backed right-wing, anti-democratic butchers like Somoza, Pinochet, and the Contras.
If they’ve had enough of getting stepped on, I’d say they’re doing the right thing by going to the ballot box. Would you rather have them start flying planes into our buildings, or do you think that the only right thing for those little bean-eaters to do is what we tell them? F–king right-wing a–holes.
“the serious business of entering the world mainstream and are (for SA) prospering: ”
like Argentina in 1990s with its IMF plan, you mean. or maybe you mean the countless poor Venezuelans that suffered tremendously while a precious few made millions with the oil before chavez. or perhaps you are referring to the million plus mexican farmers that lost their livelihood due to NAFTA (and has made mexico city even more crowded and polluted than before and the poor there even more desperate), Or would it be the hopelessly marginalized native south americans in Bolivia or Peru? Or is it the millions in the Brazillian favelas -( that zero hambre program ain’t looking too good)? Or the…… etc etc etc.
Why are there two Duggers? Will this question ever be answered? Is one a troll, and the other a troll of a troll? Or are there two accounts — and if so, why?
So, you’re saying that the policy aims of the Democrats are socialist and indistinguishable from Morales?
This new wave of Latin American populism, led by the likes of Hugo Chávez, does have ties to the Bush administration s blundering.
Uh, Chavez was elected in 1998 and again in 2000. Bush wasn’t president then. So your “new wave” goes back to the plodding left-wingers’ patron saint, Bill Clinton. But of course, it is still Bush’s fault.
Second, the Bush administration tipped its Reaganite hand at the wrong time when it abetted a ham-fisted right-wing coup attempt in democratically elected Chávez s Venezuela.
Given that Chavez himself tried and failed in a 1992 coup (and the U.S. president was??) his and your crocodile tears are laughable.
F king right-wing a holes
Classy.
Y is there only one TomY?
the Dugger-ganger
Chavez was elected in 1998 and again in 2000. Bush wasn t president then.
You need to learn reading comprehension before you try debating. The coup attempt in Venezuela occurred in 2002. And I didn’t say the wave was caused by Bush, I said it had ties to Bush. And who gives a rat’s arse if Chávez tried a coup attempt in 1992? Unlike your cotton-mouthed, yellow-ass, fake cowboy hero, Chávez was elected by an overwhelming majority. He needs no crocodile tears from anyone, especially after defeating a Bush-sponsored recall attempt last year.
You wanna see some class? Get an education that will enable you to do more than make idiotic arguments based on non sequiturs that you pull from your ass.
One more thing: the reason you jackals pick on Clinton isn’t because he was “left-wing.” Clinton was a savvy conservative who could get things done, and he could get laid. I never liked the guy politically, but it is funny to see you lame-ass wingers taking out-of-context pot-shots at his jockstrap.
Candy-asses.
How does a “new wave” have “ties to Bush” if it begins before Bush is president?
You may have set the record, however, for using the word “ass” the most times in any one post. I’m sure you are very proud. That is an impressive feat.
How does a new wave have ties to Bush if it begins before Bush is president?
Are you kidding me? Can a creature with opposable digits be this obtuse? Saying that Al Capone had ‘ties to organized crime’ is not the same thing as saying that Al Capone invented organized crime, or that Al Capone was there when organized crime was invented. Likewise, while the ‘new wave’ of populist, progressive leaders and governments in Latin America most certainly was not instigated by Head Chimpie, well, I’ll reprint my earlier statement:
the U.S. [under Bush, for those of you in the cheap seats] has weakened its credibility and logistical ability to lend its usual anti-democratic aid to right-wing minorities in Latin America due to being tied up in imperialist activities in Plan Colombia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Central Asia, and New Europe.
Also, in the short span of less than five years, the Bush administration has given the U.S. such a bad name (which is saying a lot in Latin America) that even scared, dirt-poor campesinos indigenos will line up by the millions to vote for politicians who speak out against U.S. imperialism.
Is it really that hard to figure out? Well, I guess the answer to that question intersects with my response to this:
You may have set the record, however, for using the word ass the most times in any one post. I m sure you are very proud. That is an impressive feat.
No, I’m not proud, and it isn’t impressive. It’s pathetic. Due to my uncompromising standards for accuracy, I am forced to use words such as “ass” far too frequently when responding to the high number of deserving comments in these posts. If only so many stupid-asses would stop polluting the waters here, I could engage in more polite discourse.
while the new wave of populist, progressive leaders and governments in Latin America most certainly was not instigated by [President Bush]
Maybe you should have used “ass” in that statement as you pretty much defeat this entire thread there.
If only so many stupid-asses would stop polluting the waters here, I could engage in more polite discourse.
No, I doubt you can. It’s okay though, just blame it on the president.
I still don’t understand what these left-wing governments are going to do once in power. If they have resources, the world will still do business with them, and their socialistic reform programs may yet work out. Chavez’ Venezuela may be filled with political turmoil and heavyhandedness, but it doesn’t appear to have become economically backward a la Cuba as a result of Chavez’ rule. Once the general strike dissipated in 2002 the Venezuelan economy went back to work again, supplying the Western Hemisphere with tons of oil. But what about Bolivia? That country has no resources (other than coca).
Also, the Latin American Left Turn was in response to Clinton, and then Bush after he continued Clinton’s neo-liberal policies. I’m not sure if Iraq had anything to do with it. In fact, Latin Americans (especially conservatives) have complained that the US has ignored them because of Middle East tunnel vision. Thus, Leftists are able to take advantage while Bush is distracted in Iraq.
Oh, I get it. You’re not really a stupid shit, you’re just playing one because you want to see what combinations of well-deserved insults I’m going to hurl your way.
See, I figured that out because no living human being (notice I didn’t qualify that with a phrase like “…except a Freeper troll”, because Freepers aren’t human) could have so much dog feces between his ears that he’d actually keep repeating this non sequitur–
blame it on the president.
–as though it were some sort of clever “gotcha” line.
Ha ha! What a dandy bon mot. Now run along and play, and let us grownups discuss the other children in the White House.
elrod wrote:
the Latin American Left Turn was in response to Clinton, and then Bush after he continued Clinton s neo-liberal policies. I m not sure if Iraq had anything to do with it. In fact, Latin Americans (especially conservatives) have complained that the US has ignored them because of Middle East tunnel vision. Thus, Leftists are able to take advantage while Bush is distracted in Iraq.
You have to understand that most of Latin America has been trying to make this ‘left turn’ for centuries. Unfortunately, (or fortunately, if you’re an imperialist/elitist/fascist) the wealthycriollo elites in most of these countries have always managed to make their own enrichment and aggrandizement the effective law of the land, and the needs of the majority populations (indigenos, gauchos, mestizos, etc.) have been placed on the back burner, if on the stove at all. Most importantly to this thread, though, the U.S. has always– always– supported the brutal right-wing dictatorships that have maintained (or restored) the colonial status quo. This support has usually included covert and indirect aid, such as the training and arming of secret police, death squads, etc.; it has also included (especially in the earlier days, and in the recent cases of Panama and Nicaragua) direct military intervention.
The neoliberal policies of the IMF, WTO, and World Bank are just organized, official methods for the U.S., Canada, and Western Europe to continue the economic exploitation of poorer Latin American countries. The same old structure exists: the wealthy elite getting their cut, and most of the rest struggling for survival. This is what these Latin American populations are turning away from. They’ve been trying for years, but Clinton seemed not so willing to call out the dogs of war in response to the rising success of these popular movements.
As evidence by their clumsy support for the bungled coup attempt (and subsequent recall referendum) in Venezuela in 2002, the Bushies appear willing to play the old Reaganite games, but they lack the resources and political capital. You can convince the slack-jawed mouthbreathers in our own electorate that Chávez is a dangerous, anti-democratic commie, but the rest of the world sees that the biggest danger to world peace and stability is the nation that launched an unprovoked invasion of Iraq, continues its support for oppressive regimes in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc.), and never met an internationally beneficial treaty that it couldn’t reject (Kyoto, World thingie on Racism, International Criminal Court, etc.).
I’m sure the Bushies are still trying to play the old Reaganite games; huge chunks of our tax dollars are still pouring into Plan Colombia, for example. However, it appears that the big old coyote has lost some of its bite. It appears, and I certainly hope it keeps up, that much of Latin America is finally in a position to wipe its collective ass on the Monroe Doctrine. If the U.S. is going to remain a leader in the western hemisphere, then it should lead benevolently and by positive example, not with the violence, subterfuge, oppression, and hypocrisy that typified its own growth spurts.
He is so full of hate for Bush
That Oliver Willis (Occupation: Toole) is praising the possibility of increasing America s crack cocaine supply. Can We Finally Call It A Trend Another politician in South America with a leftist message wins office. The South American politician with…
It appears, and I certainly hope it keeps up, that much of Latin America is finally in a position to wipe its collective ass on the Monroe Doctrine.
I thought you were going to make it without one “ass.” Damn, you were so close. Your post brought me to tears, though. Especially the part about Israel being an “oppressive regime.” That was a nice touch.
Oliver – Might I recommend Hayek’s classic work, The Road to Serfdom, which explains how once you start down the path of economic planning, you end up with an authoritarian government (since human activity is economic activity, at some point, governments must control the activities of their subjects citizens.) Written near the end of World War II, Hayek was concerned about the proclivity of Britain’s elites to move towards a socialist economy – albeit for noble reasons. He was concerned that they’d beat the Nazis in Germany, only to end up with a socialist or fascistic state at home.
Heck, I’ll even pay for the copy of it if you’re willing to read it…
Hedley – Come on … you know that Israel is the most oppressive regime in the world
I think its funny that simply pointing out a fact gets you cons thinking that I endorse anything this guy says. Explains a lot about the “bias” bugaboo.
JD, you’re right, of course. It really is a shame that Israel can’t simply let Hamas live in peace.
“the wealthycriollo elites in most of these countries have always managed to make their own enrichment and aggrandizement the effective law of the land, and the needs of the majority populations (indigenos, gauchos, mestizos, etc.) have been placed on the back burner, if on the stove at all. Most importantly to this thread, though, the U.S. has always always supported the brutal right-wing dictatorships that have maintained (or restored) the colonial status quo.”
While this statement is true, it remains to be seen if the socialist oriented regimes will be as corrupt as the old guard. The Nicaraguans threw the bums out once they realized the Sandanista’s were a bunch of corrupt thugs. I’ll bet the same will happen in Venezula and Bolivia.
“You can convince the slack-jawed mouthbreathers in our own electorate that Chávez is a dangerous, anti-democratic commie, but the rest of the world sees that the biggest danger to world peace and stability is the nation that launched an unprovoked invasion of Iraq, continues its support for oppressive regimes in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc.), and never met an internationally beneficial treaty that it couldn t reject (Kyoto, World thingie on Racism, International Criminal Court, etc.). ”
Shorter Corrigan: “Down with Amerikka, long live the international Prelotariat!”
damn dyslexia: Prelotariat to Proletariat
Don’t try to blame dyslexia, zorro, unless it also caused you to miss this clause:
If the U.S. is going to remain a leader in the western hemisphere, then it should lead benevolently and by positive example
I’d say your attempt to be clever would have been admirable had you not been so incapable of making it work. Jeez, can’t any of you wingers use your God-given powers of reasoning? At least this explains why you keep supporting Bush. Try again…
Alex – please do explain how Israel is an example of an oppressive regime.
Corrigan:
I didn’t miss that clause, I merely dismissed it as lip service. You are a consistent Blame America First idiot. If the shoe fits, wear it. Are you so ashamed of your leftist leanings that you must try to conceal them. You consistently use language and phrasing on this site commonly used by soviet era propagandists. Come on out of the closet, it’s not like you wouldn’t be at home on this site. Oh, and I’m sure YOU have never spelled ANYTHING wrong and hit the submit button before catching it, you moron.
JD wrote: Alex – please do explain how Israel is an example of an oppressive regime.
I won’t bother. I’ll let a really smart Palestinian do it for me:
Edward Said: On Dignity and Solidarity
zero wrote: You are a consistent Blame America First idiot. If the shoe fits, wear it.
Gladly, zero. I am an idiot just like my hero, Jesus Christ, who taught me the following:
“For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?” (Matthew 7:2-4)
I don’t go looking at other nations’ behavior and making criticisms until I know that the U.S., in which I was born, have lived my entire life, and where I reside as a voter and taxpayer, is doing the best it can to be righteous. That’s my responsibility as a citizen of a democracy.
zero wrote: Are you so ashamed of your leftist leanings that you must try to conceal them. You consistently use language and phrasing on this site commonly used by soviet era propagandists.
Yes, zero, I am so ashamed of my leftist leanings (which are also patterned after the living example of my hero, Jesus Christ) that I often, apparently, spout Soviet-era propaganda! Gee, zero, I had no idea! Since you’re an expert on Soviet-era propaganda (like Condi Rice?), maybe you could give me a few examples.
Oh, and I m sure YOU have never spelled ANYTHING wrong and hit the submit button before catching it
Actually, I’ve made MANY speling erhors that got past the “submit” button. However, unlike you, zero, I don’t let anything really stupid get past the “submit” button.
Who else wants some?!
The swing to the left in South America is fairly easy to diagnose…it is the result of very poorly thought out policy by this Adminstrations jugheads. We have always been able to get our way through cajoling, bribery or, as in Panama, mass murder. But this administration cannot even do this right.
Once we were blamed for the coups to topple Chavez, ones that he easily overcame, the rest of the South America lost their fear of us. And no matter how conservatives try to write it, our lack of easy victory in Iraq has hurt our ability to bully our neighbors. NOBODY IS AFRAID OF US ANYMORE!! Ask Iran, North Korea and China..
The scary part…the really scary part, is that South America is turning left because of us and in spite of us. Our support for IMT, WTO, CAFTA, etc. they see as hurting them rather than helping. WHy are they turning left? Because turning right cost them their economic independence.
THe leaders of these countries no longer fear us or look to us for guidance. THey see Bush as a democratically elected son of a bitch just as the Bushes see them as the same. Now they want to democratically elect their own sons of bitches. And jabbing a thumb in DIck CHeney’s eye is just a bonus.
By the way…Condi Rice cannot speak or read Russian well enough to be considered an expert on anything slavic. The Russian newspapers mocked her intellect, her knowledge of Russian history and her poor attempts at conversation. She wasnt as good at Russian as Bush is at Spanish.
The truth hurts, doesnt it, right wing nut bags? Shoot the messenger.
Morales plan? Get those filthy gringos to buy more cocaine.
Hey, randy, I’ve got an easy solution to foiling Morales’ alleged plan: how about you filthy gringos stop using so much cocaine. Or maybe you need the Nanny State to protect you from your own illicit desires.
The Nicaraguans threw the bums out once they realized the Sandanista s were a bunch of corrupt thugs.
We have another person ignorant of recent history. The Sandanistas were swept into power despite violent opposition from holdouts loyal to Somoza This was after a long and bloody civil war in which– once again– the majority of the population was held down by an entrenched, U.S.-backed right-wing dictatorship (this one was a family dynasty).
Jeez, randy, have you never heard of the contras? Do right-wing brains have the memory of fish, or just their critical thinking ability? Is the cocaine doing this to you? The Reaganites spent the better part of a decade funding and training elements of the former Somoza-loyalist National Guard, plus assorted mercenaries and other terrorists recruited from around Latin America. The contras carried out a campaign of terrorism; they generally avoided direct confrontation with the legitimate Nicaraguan military, instead going for ’soft targets’ like teachers, judges, and other unarmed civilians. There were kidnappings, bombings, assassinations– hey, maybe they shipped some of their CIA handbooks to Iraq by mistake!!
The U.S. had an ‘embassy’ set up in Honduras, run by John Negroponte, just to coordinate this crap. The CIA even mined the harbors of Nicaragua’s ports. These things were all acts of war, and were loudly condemned by the international community (except for Honduras, of course, where speaking out against U.S. aggression would get you tossed out a helicopter from altitude).
Anyway, it was the fatigue of decades of bloodshed that led much of the population to give in to threats of further U.S.-sponsored terrorism and vote for “centrists” as opposed to the Sandanistas.
Get a f–king clue, randy. Otherwise you’ll try to be clever, and you’ll just look stupid. Maybe that passes for wisdom in Freeperland…
Corrigan:
Don’t think you get off that easy. Trying to hide behind self righteous criticism just makes you more of a pussy. You think that bullying behavior and ad-hominem attacks make you clever? You obviously think much higher of yourself than is prudent. You rant and rave about how stupid the other side is, but usually end up showing how bigoted and close-minded YOU are. Hiding behind Jesus Christ are we? Every angry post you make, you just prove what a complete fool you are; someone who can’t get past his irrational hate for GWB and projecting onto all who share conservative beliefs. You don’t fool anyone with your bullshit Corrigan. By the way, I’ve visited your little blog. I guess all that traffic must really keep you hopping. And you call yourself part of the “reality based” community? You need to hop on back down the rabbit hole where you come from boy.
ad-hominem attacks
bigoted and close-minded
a complete fool
bullshit
Doing a little projecting, are we? You’re just mad because I spanked your worthless ass. I have to admit, it was easy for me, considering that I came armed with facts and thinking skills, and you came armed with– well, really lame versions of RNC talking points. Just be glad this isn’t my blog; that’s why I went easy on your sorry hide.
Next time you want to enter a rhetorical gunfight, don’t bring your frowny-face flash cards.