“The death of Tookie Williams today got me to reminiscing about my days living under the shadow of the Crip Empire. My first memory of the rise of modern street gangs in Los Angeles was in the early 60’s. One of my older sisters was a member of the Slausonettes, a predecessor to the Crips later rival, the “Bloods” who were originally called the “Brims.” My earliest impressions of gangs were romantic.”

http://www.grupo-utopia.com/blog/isou/archives/2005/12/life_under_the.php

Your piece states that the California State Courts — the ones you called “the most famously liberal state courts in the nation” — are actually the most conservative courts in the country when it comes to overturning death penalty cconvictions. Even with your disingenuous attempt to add federal courts into the mix, California death penalty convictions are only overturned on average with the rates of the rest of the Nation as a whole. So much for being the most liberal.

NOW BACK ON TOPIC – None of these courts can stop an execution simply based on the fact that there is no infallible evidence. Congress and the conservative U.S. Supreme Court have increasingly restricted federal habeas claims. Most importantly, the sufficiency of evidence standard is so low, Williams could’ve been executed solely on the say so of Alfred Coward. AND THAT’S MY POINT & WHAT IS WRONG HERE – the death sentence should not be used when a conviction is based on fallible evidence.

BTW – I did notice that O Dub (w/ his DLC-Lite position on this issue) chickened out on this whole debate. His tough talk sure impressed La Shawn Barber (& maybe even some of the Dem bigwigs who know not to touch death penalty issues with a ten-foot pole).

I thought the President of Iran was the dumbest man on the planet, but you might be up for giving him a run for the title.

Oh, so witty. I know you are but what am I?

After taking an ass-whippin on the evidence against Williams, you have offered a feint & dodge by proclaiming the California State courts as the  most famously liberal.

Ass-whippin’? What you do on your time is really none of our concern. However, it’s hardly an “ass-whippin’” when his conviction has been reviewed at least 11 times by the state and federal courts none of which saw any reason to overturn his conviction.

You obviously don t live in California, because if you did you might be aware that 5 of the 6 current Supreme Court justices were appointed by Republicans (it was 6 of 7 until rightwing whackjob – one of the most coservative judges in the nation – Janice Rogers Brown – moved on to the DC Circuit).

Ooooh. Republicans. First, I said courts, with an “s”. That means plural. Besides the Supreme Court, California has nearly twice as many judges as all federal judges combined. Now recall, if you can, that your boy Tookie had his conviction reviewed at least 11 times and not one court overturned it or commuted his death sentence. This in a state where its death sentences get reversed at a rate of seven to one!

You are obviously unaware of what happened to the Rose Bird court – a recall effort that established the overturning of death penalty convictions as the third rail of California jurisprudence.

You mean the Supreme Court Chief Justice who refused to do her job and voted against the death penalty all 61 times it was before her, merely on principal? No, never heard of her.

Please name us this oh-so liberal California judge that actually has been reversing oh-so many death penalty convictions and who considered the Williams case.

See above. 11 times the WIlliams case was reviewed by a judicial system that reverses 7 death sentences for every 1 that it affirms.

Your second argument is even worse –  screw the evidence, the prosecutor says he s guilty. Tens of death row inmates have been set free through the DNA project. In none of those cases did prosecutors step forward and say they got it wrong before DNA proved otherwise.

No. My second “argument” is simply to present the side of the story that you don’t want anyone to read.

Indeed, Hedley contradicts himself by questioning the Maye conviction when there is nothing available that the prosecutor is backing off his claim of guilty.

Indeed, Macswain makes a fool of himself by revealing his inability to read. I said that I looked at that case “rather quickly”and indeed, did not even see the prosecutor’s position which, I am sure, will likely make what appears to be a compelling caese in favor of the defendant, less so.

It s always amazed me how quickly, and unwittingly, these righties will contradict themselves.

It always amazes me how the leftwingnuts like B.J. Macswain Honeycutt are afraid to admit that there is another side to the story.

Free Mumia!

I thought the President of Iran was the dumbest man on the planet, but you might be up for giving him a run for the title.

After taking an ass-whippin’ on the evidence against Williams, you have offered a feint & dodge by proclaiming the California State courts as the “most famously liberal.”

You obviously don’t live in California, because if you did you might be aware that 5 of the 6 current Supreme Court justices were appointed by Republicans (it was 6 of 7 until rightwing whackjob – one of the most coservative judges in the nation – Janice Rogers Brown – moved on to the DC Circuit).

You are obviously unaware of what happened to the Rose Bird court – a recall effort that established the overturning of death penalty convictions as the third rail of California jurisprudence.

Please name us this oh-so liberal California judge that actually has been reversing oh-so many death penalty convictions and who considered the Williams case.

Your second argument is even worse – “screw the evidence, the prosecutor says he’s guilty.” Tens of death row inmates have been set free through the DNA project. In none of those cases did prosecutors step forward and say they got it wrong before DNA proved otherwise.

Indeed, Hedley contradicts himself by questioning the Maye conviction when there is nothing available that the prosecutor is backing off his claim of guilty. It’s always amazed me how quickly, and unwittingly, these righties will contradict themselves.

http://tinyurl.com/ag8rg

http://www.volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_12_11-2005_12_17.shtml#1134497241

It looks fairly likely that the guy killed a cop in self defense and is now on death row.

http://feeds.losangelesnews.net/?rid=3daf8853d3376080&cat=a7d0846f876c8187&f=1

Nice cut and paste job. Apparently you think lengthy posts now count as weighty evidence.

You have one alleged eyewitness who testified after getting immunity for participating in the murder (which nicely allowed him to commit a later murder) and 4 confession witnesses all criminals who testified after being paid off with avoidance of prison/jail time. At least, one – Coleman – who recanted his testimony claiming to have given after being beaten by the police.

As to the sole piece of forensic evidence, you despicably leave out the fact that the first ballistic tests of the shotgun did not find it to be the murder weapon. Only after being asked to retest it — (uhm uhm uhm – give us a better answer) did the firearms expert conclude it fired one shell found at the scene.

Other than that – you got nothing.

I’ve never said that Williams is innocent – I don’t know – but I do know the evidence at hand is not sufficient for me to play God and say a man should die much less express glee over it.

Bite that, you weak-ass bloodsucker.

Now he’s decided that not only to play executioner on evidence he would never find sufficient if against Bush, but to tell us where life begins.

I wonder if when he cums in the stink does he look at his vile mug in the mirror and cry, “I’m a murderer!” Or does his all-powerful definition conveniently exclude the act of masterbation from the destruction of life? I’ll bet his definition of life only begins with the selfempowerment of telling women what to do with their wombs.

It’s too bad you are wasting your obvious talents on a blog when you should be saving the convicted criminals everywhere. Maybe you can get your own show on CBS called the “Convict Whisperer”

Free Mumia!

It seems all they really want is to decide who lives and who dies.

Stereotypes and sweeping generalizations can be so much fun.

Can’t any of you answer my questions?

Where’s the infallible evidence of absolute guilt? Hedley provides a hearsay statement from Lora Owens (which, of course, only qualifies evidence to a retard) and then cites unnamed witnesses (deal cutters?) who claim to have heard a 5-6 minute laugh. Jeebus … and these are the guys who would insist on photographic evidence coupled with a taped confession before they would ever find Bush made a mistake. How sick is it that the standard to off a black man is apparently lower to these bloodsuckers than to ever admit Bush’s mistakes?

Do any of you believe juries make mistkes? — hasn’t the right always trashed jury verdicts they didn’t like, e.g. the OJ criminal trial and the Michael Jackson trial. Didn’t the left trash the Rodney King/Simi Valley jury verdict?

Just food for thought.

“Cumulatively, the evidence demonstrating Williams is guilty of these murders is strong and compelling. It includes: (1) eyewitness testimony of Alfred Coward, who was one of Williams accomplices in the 7-Eleven shooting; (2) ballistics evidence proving that the shotgun casing found at the scene of the motel murders was fired from Williams shotgun; (3) testimony from Samuel Coleman that Williams confessed that he had robbed and killed some people on Vermont Street (where the motel was located); (4) testimony from James and Esther Garrett that Williams admitted to them that he committed both sets of murders; and (5) testimony from jailhouse informant George Oglesby that Williams confessed to the motel murders and conspired with Oglesby to escape from county jail. The trial evidence is bolstered by information from Tony Sims, who has admitted to being an accomplice in the 7-Eleven murder. Sims did not testify against Williams at trial, but he was later convicted of murder for his role in Albert Owens death. During his trial and subsequent parole hearings, Sims has repeatedly stated under
oath that Williams was the shooter.

Based on the cumulative weight of the evidence, there is no reason to second guess the jury s finding of guilt or raise significant doubts or serious reservations about Williams convictions and death sentence. He murdered Albert Owens and Yen-I Yang, Yee-Chen Lin and Tsai-Shai Lin in cold blood in two separate incidents that were just weeks apart.

But Williams claims that he is particularly deserving of clemency because he has reformed and been redeemed for his violent past. Williams claim of redemption triggers an inquiry into his atonement for all his transgressions. Williams protests that he has no reason to apologize for these murders because he did not commit them. But he is guilty and a close look at Williams post-arrest and postconviction conduct tells a story that is different from redemption. After Williams was arrested for these crimes, and while he was awaiting trial, he conspired to escape from custody by blowing up a jail transportation bus and killing the deputies guarding the bus. There are detailed escape plans in Williams own handwriting. Williams never executed this plan, but his co-conspirator implicated Williams in the scheme. The fact that Williams conspired to murder several others to effectuate his escape from jail while awaiting his murder trial is consistent with guilt, not innocence. And the timing of the motel murders less than two weeks after the murder of Albert Owens shows a callous disregard for human life.”

Personally, I can’t wait for the ABC movie about the bomb plot.

Let’s start with the crime and the victims Macswain and B.J. Honeycutt wish to ignore:

“During the early morning hours of February 28, 1979, Williams and three others went on a robbery spree. Around 4 a.m., they entered a 7-Eleven store where Albert Owens was working by himself. Here, Williams, armed with his pumpaction shotgun, ordered Owens to a backroom and shot him twice in the back while he lay face down on the floor. Williams and his accomplices made off with about $120 from the store s cash register. After leaving the 7-Eleven store, Williams told the others that he killed Albert Owens because he did not want any witnesses. Later that morning, Williams recounted shooting Albert Owens, saying  You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him. Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes.

On March 11, 1979, less than two weeks later, Williams, again armed with his shotgun, robbed a family-operated motel and shot and killed three members of the family: (1) the father, Yen-I Yang, who was shot once in the torso and once in the arm while he was laying on a sofa; (2) the mother, Tsai-Shai Lin, who was shot once in the abdomen and once in the back; and (3) the daughter, Yee-Chen Lin, who was shot once in her face. For these murders, Williams made away with approximately $100 in cash. Williams also told others about the details of these murders and referred to the victims as  Buddha-heads. ”

And now for the “mistaken” jury:

“Williams case has been thoroughly reviewed in the 24 years since his convictions and death sentence. In addition to his direct appeal to the California Supreme Court, Williams has filed five state habeas corpus petitions, each of which has been rejected. The federal courts have also reviewed his convictions and death sentence. Williams filed a federal habeas corpus petition, and the U.S. District Court denied it. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals confirmed this decision. Williams was also given a number of post-trial evidentiary hearings, and he and his lawyers had the opportunity at these hearings to present evidence that was not heard at trial. The jury s decision has withstood these challenges.

In all, Williams case has been the subject of at least eight substantive judicial opinions. Prior to the filing of the clemency petition, the state court habeas process was completed on June 21, 1995 when the California Supreme Court denied Williams fourth state habeas corpus petition.3 The federal court habeas process was completed on October 11, 2005 when the United States Supreme Court denied Williams writ of certiorari.

The claim that Williams received an unfair trial was the subject of this extensive litigation in the state and federal courts. The courts considered the sufficiency of his counsel, the strategic nature of counsel s decisions during the penalty phase of Williams trial, the adequacy and reliability of testimony from informants, whether Williams was prejudiced by security measures employed during his trial, whether he was competent to stand trial, whether the prosecutor impermissibly challenged potential jurors on the basis of race, and whether his jury was improperly influenced by Williams threats made against them. There is no need to rehash or second guess the myriad findings of the courts over 24 years of litigation.

The possible irregularities in Williams trial have been thoroughly and carefully reviewed by the courts, and there is no reason to disturb the judicial decisions that uphold the jury s findings that he is guilty of these four murders and should pay with his life.”

 You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him. Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes, according to the transcript that the governor referenced in his denial of clemency.

The highlighted part sounds like B.S. to me. Just try it yourself.

It’s just stupid to keep killing people. It’s like this:

Kill them quickly, with few appeal possibilities, and you run the risk of killing an innocent. The deterrent effect is strongest, though not as strong as some folks seem to think.
Allow years for appeals, and you lose the deterrent effect. The appeals are costly (lawyers cost more than jailers).
Lock them up for life (without parole) and you can release them if they are proved innocent.

Till we find a way to be sure, why kill? It lowers society to the level of its worst members, and hardens hearts. It also allows free reign for vengeance, and probably raises the level of sloppiness in police work.

Think of it as a game with no instant replay. When you can’t undo society’s action, you harm society.

Ed