What a delightful turn of phrase. So flexible.

“And the idiotic ‘floor plan’ that is neither a plan nor floor?”

“And the idiotic ‘battle plan’ that is neither a plan nor battle?”

Learn a little grammar, will you, Ollie? “Victory,” in that context, is modifying “plan.” If a plan was synonymous with its object, John Kerry would be president.

Well, maybe that’s not the best example. Kerry’s “plans” all devolved into either “I’d do the opposite of what Bush did” or “I’d do just what Bush did, but better.” But the point remains the same: you attempt at pulling off a clever little bit of wordplay instead merely revealed your own 1) carelessness; B) ignorance; III) stupidity, or d) all of the above.

(List formatting courtesy “Car Talk”, one of NPR’s finest contributions to American culture)

J.

I am not saying that there should be public support for Christmas, but there shouldn t be an outspoken denouncement of it. The ACLU has sued many towns for putting Christmas items on public property.

You still haven’t provided a link.

But also, am I the only commenter who sees a contradiction in what you’re saying?

The ACLU has sued many towns for putting Christmas items on public property. What s the big deal.

Seems to clearly imply disapproval of the ACLU’s [alleged] actions. You seem to be complaining. But just ten words before, you said

I am not saying that there should be public support for Christmas

Seems to clearly imply disapproval of public support for Christmas. So you disapprove of public support for it, but you also disappove of stopping said support. Regarding other situations that might be called libertarianism, but that attitude is generally not aimed at state actors.

Excuse the verbosity. In summary: if you don’t want public support for Christmas, then you can’t be happy with exclusively and overtly Christian actions by government. It doesn’t work.

Hahaha, that was a good one.

I am not saying that there should be public support for Christmas, but there shouldn’t be an outspoken denouncement of it. The ACLU has sued many towns for putting Christmas items on public property. What’s the big deal.

ACLU of Michigan Defends Catholic Man Coerced to Convert to Pentecostal Faith in Drug Rehab Program
http://www.aclu.org/religion/govtfunding/22354prs20051206.html

ACLU Files Lawsuit to Protect Religious Liberty of Imprisoned Asylum Seeker
http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/asylum/11736prs20050518.html

ACLU Urges North Carolina Courts to Allow Use of Multiple Religious Texts for Swearing Oaths
http://www.aclu.org/religion/discrim/19937prs20050711.html

ACLU of New Jersey Successfully Defends Right of Religious Expression by Jurors
http://www.aclu.org/religion/gen/16374prs20041222.html

Here is even one from a wingnutty site
Judge Rules Against Educrats’ Anti-religious Censorship
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/3/18/113401.shtml

Now if you think our tax dollars should be spent for religious Christmas celebrations, to the exclusion of all other faiths, or the lack of “faith”, then we have a problem.

Still waiting on that proof that the ACLU is against Christmas. The ACLU will fight for your freedom to practice your religion. Why won’t you fight for them?

Let me make it clear … I don’t care if you don’t want to say “Merry Christmas” .. that’s your prerogative, not mine. I think the term “War on Christmas” is foolish and that is what is hurting the view of someone who doesn’t want to be silenced.

“Links” .. Hmm .. ACLU suing every instance of public support for Christmas?

Some American Jews don’t give Israel a free pass to do whatever the fuck they want just because they also happen to be Jewish. Naturally, I have no desire to see Israel wiped off the face of the map, but wanting Israeli peace/security and Israeli accountability are not mutually exclusive concepts – despite some people’s best efforts to insinuate otherwise.

One has to appreciate the irony of a Jew attempting to fit Republican voting Jews into the stereotype of them being nothing but money grubbers.

Next you’ll be telling us they control Hollywood and bring drugs and booze into all the black neighborhoods.

Democrats….
We have the courage to surrendur

Or care about the fate of Eretz Israel.

http://www.isranet.org/DataBank/US_Jewish_Affairs_Positions_in_Politics.htm

ian Says:

December 7th, 2005 at 11:00 pm
…
Elrod,

Incase you haven t noticed our country is based on Judeo-Christian values. There is a seperation of church and state and Republicans don t want to change that, they just want Christmas recognized.  Progressives and other liberals of the ilk don t want the word Christmas being said. You know what they did first in Communist Europe, strip religion from the public. [emphasis mine]

First of all, I disagree with your assessment of the Republican leadership’s view of seperation of church and state. Exhibit A: Terry Schiavo. Exhibit B: “intelligent” design. Exhibit C… do you really, really need more?

But as for the last bit of what you said, let me refer to dictionary.com:

strawman n. 2: a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted [syn: straw man]

Now, forgive me, I have to ask, do you have any reason to believe in any of what you said there? I’m just not seeing it. If you can provide links showing that most or even just many progressives don’t want the word “Christian” being said, or that most or even just many progressives want to go the way of Communist Europe, I will apologize.

Who are these people who want saying the word Christmas to be stopped? Links?
Thanks in advance.

Rather than face the fact that their failing Iraq operation is being rejected by the public, they change the subject.

Incidentally, as a Jew myself, I find the concept of a Jew voting for the Christian Conservative Republican party hilarious. That is, of course, unless you are a very wealthy Jew and love tax breaks more than anything else in the world. The it makes pefrect sense to me.

A kid in college? Not so much.

The so-called “War on Christmas” boils down to right-wingers complaining that shops are saying “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”. You don’t like what is being said and want to force those shops to say something else instead. By your own standard, that makes you the fascist.

Me, I could care less what the shops say. I don’t break out in spots when I hear “Merry Christmas”. “Happy Holidays” is certainly more inclusive of non-Christians, which is the point – the shops want to bilk more than just the Jesus set out of money this time of year. That’s called “increasing shareholder value” in business-speak.

A business that deliberately turns away customers based on their religion won’t stay in business for long. “You aren’t a Christian – we don’t want your kind shopping here”. Please see the color of your host’s skin (sorry Oliver) and ask yourself if that kind of attitude is acceptable in the 21st century. It’s not. It’s wrong, and you know it.

BTW, fascism is right-wing extremism. We are left-wingers. We’re the “communists” remember. Please get your terminology right when trying to insult us.

There you are twisting my words .. my god (sic) I would never make you say Christmas or anything you don’t want too, that is fascism. Really, I wouldn’t want you to say Christmas if you don’t want to .. but just like you don’t want to say it, people don’t want it not to be said .. as in silenced. That is fascism.

Oliver go exercise.