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	<title>Comments on: The War On Fiction</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/</link>
	<description>Like Kryptonite To Stupid</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Constantine</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13285</link>
		<dc:creator>Constantine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 03:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13285</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;In addition, I wouldn t portray  POC  as a  conservative  movie, as Jesus transcends politics, despite the best efforts of people to pigeonhole Him in that way.&lt;/i&gt;

In this case, I agree with Jay C. POC simply isn't a political work, except in so far as it's a showcasing of an essentially Roman Catholic art piece to the general public, who apparently saw it in numbers normally reserved for "family films."
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In addition, I wouldn t portray  POC  as a  conservative  movie, as Jesus transcends politics, despite the best efforts of people to pigeonhole Him in that way.</i></p>
<p>In this case, I agree with Jay C. POC simply isn&#8217;t a political work, except in so far as it&#8217;s a showcasing of an essentially Roman Catholic art piece to the general public, who apparently saw it in numbers normally reserved for &#8220;family films.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Constantine</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13284</link>
		<dc:creator>Constantine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 03:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13284</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Of the top 50 highest grossing movies of all time, 46 carried ratings of G, PG or PG-13. The 4 R rated movies were  The Passion , The Excorcist ,  Beverly Hills Cop  and  The Matrix .  Passion  was the highest grossing R at #10.&lt;/i&gt;

The original author was referring to the political bent of the films and the film makers which are reflective of the filmmakers' values, not the MPAA rating. Unless you're arguing that childrens' movies (which make up much of the top 10) are inherently "conservative"....

(Incidently, the most "conservative"-valued movie I have ever seen is "Con Air." Also rather violent and rated "R")
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Of the top 50 highest grossing movies of all time, 46 carried ratings of G, PG or PG-13. The 4 R rated movies were  The Passion , The Excorcist ,  Beverly Hills Cop  and  The Matrix .  Passion  was the highest grossing R at #10.</i></p>
<p>The original author was referring to the political bent of the films and the film makers which are reflective of the filmmakers&#8217; values, not the MPAA rating. Unless you&#8217;re arguing that childrens&#8217; movies (which make up much of the top 10) are inherently &#8220;conservative&#8221;&#8230;.</p>
<p>(Incidently, the most &#8220;conservative&#8221;-valued movie I have ever seen is &#8220;Con Air.&#8221; Also rather violent and rated &#8220;R&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: buma</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13283</link>
		<dc:creator>buma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13283</guid>
		<description>One of Sam's finer moments: &lt;a href="http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/15/more-cowardice-from-glenn-reynolds/#comments" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/15/more-cowardice-from-glenn-reynolds/#comments" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/15/more-cowardice-from-glenn-reynolds/#comments&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of Sam&#8217;s finer moments: <a href="http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/15/more-cowardice-from-glenn-reynolds/#comments" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/15/more-cowardice-from-glenn-reynolds/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/15/more-cowardice-from-glenn-reynolds/#comments</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jay C</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13282</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13282</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;because this seems like a bit of a cop-out argument for Christianity surely the things you have done have weight in whether or not you receive God s grace.&lt;/i&gt;

Please note that I wasn't talking about receiving his grace, but that we're &lt;i&gt;saved&lt;/i&gt; by his grace. I am talking about his grace in the context of salvation. There's no way that we can impress God. Does God want us to do good works? Of course. In fact, the New Testament commands it. However, doing good works is not going to get you saved.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>because this seems like a bit of a cop-out argument for Christianity surely the things you have done have weight in whether or not you receive God s grace.</i></p>
<p>Please note that I wasn&#8217;t talking about receiving his grace, but that we&#8217;re <i>saved</i> by his grace. I am talking about his grace in the context of salvation. There&#8217;s no way that we can impress God. Does God want us to do good works? Of course. In fact, the New Testament commands it. However, doing good works is not going to get you saved.</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver Willis</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13281</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver Willis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13281</guid>
		<description>Only because the GOP has to hide its desire to privatize social security, etc.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only because the GOP has to hide its desire to privatize social security, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: BD</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13280</link>
		<dc:creator>BD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13280</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;reminds Christians that it s only through God s grace that we re saved, not because of anything we have done.&lt;/i&gt;

I don't think you mean it the way you're saying this, because this seems like a bit of a cop-out argument for Christianity--surely the things you have done have weight in whether or not you receive God's grace. Even a sincere act of repentance is an action.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>reminds Christians that it s only through God s grace that we re saved, not because of anything we have done.</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you mean it the way you&#8217;re saying this, because this seems like a bit of a cop-out argument for Christianity&#8211;surely the things you have done have weight in whether or not you receive God&#8217;s grace. Even a sincere act of repentance is an action.</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13279</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13279</guid>
		<description>BGA says:

"We re speaking of the marketplace of ideas, where liberal values have repeatedly won out over conservative values..."

Which ideological camp has been steadily winning elections lately Al?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BGA says:</p>
<p>&#8220;We re speaking of the marketplace of ideas, where liberal values have repeatedly won out over conservative values&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Which ideological camp has been steadily winning elections lately Al?</p>
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		<title>By: PSU94</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13278</link>
		<dc:creator>PSU94</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13278</guid>
		<description>i think it's pretty stupid to get bent out of shape over a Law and Order episode as well, but maybe they're taking their cues from lefty bloggers who pissed their pants in horror at the fact that torture sometimes works for Jack Bauer.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think it&#8217;s pretty stupid to get bent out of shape over a Law and Order episode as well, but maybe they&#8217;re taking their cues from lefty bloggers who pissed their pants in horror at the fact that torture sometimes works for Jack Bauer.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay C</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13277</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13277</guid>
		<description>In addition, I wouldn't portray 'POC' as a 'conservative' movie, as Jesus transcends politics, despite the best efforts of people to pigeonhole Him in that way.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition, I wouldn&#8217;t portray &#8216;POC&#8217; as a &#8216;conservative&#8217; movie, as Jesus transcends politics, despite the best efforts of people to pigeonhole Him in that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay C</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13276</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13276</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;So, just so I have it straight the most important thing for today s Christian to focus on is that Christ suffered and died&lt;/i&gt;

No, one of the most important things for a Christian to focus on is that Christ suffered and died, thereby paying the penalty for &lt;i&gt;our sin&lt;/i&gt; on the cross. He suffered, so we wouldn't have to and remembering that, reminds Christians that it's only through God's grace that we're saved, not because of anything we have done.

In addition, 'Passion' was not targeted at outside observers, but rather those who are already familiar with the entire story (which is obvious since it begins in the Garden of Gesthemane rather than with His birth).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So, just so I have it straight the most important thing for today s Christian to focus on is that Christ suffered and died</i></p>
<p>No, one of the most important things for a Christian to focus on is that Christ suffered and died, thereby paying the penalty for <i>our sin</i> on the cross. He suffered, so we wouldn&#8217;t have to and remembering that, reminds Christians that it&#8217;s only through God&#8217;s grace that we&#8217;re saved, not because of anything we have done.</p>
<p>In addition, &#8216;Passion&#8217; was not targeted at outside observers, but rather those who are already familiar with the entire story (which is obvious since it begins in the Garden of Gesthemane rather than with His birth).</p>
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		<title>By: Big Gay Al</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13275</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Gay Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13275</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And academia is in no way,  the free market, baby,  since most of it is public education.&lt;/i&gt;

Wow. Are you trying to be a parody troll? We're speaking of the marketplace of ideas, where liberal values have repeatedly won out over conservative values, not whether someone has to literally pay for education.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And academia is in no way,  the free market, baby,  since most of it is public education.</i></p>
<p>Wow. Are you trying to be a parody troll? We&#8217;re speaking of the marketplace of ideas, where liberal values have repeatedly won out over conservative values, not whether someone has to literally pay for education.</p>
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		<title>By: BD</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13274</link>
		<dc:creator>BD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13274</guid>
		<description>Besides Lazarus, you mean? (Yes, yes, I know it was Christ who brought him back.)

So, just so I have it straight--the most important thing for today's Christian to focus on is that Christ suffered and died, while shunting off to the side the teachings he espoused while alive...because &lt;i&gt;anybody&lt;/i&gt; could have come up with those teachings?

Dear Christ: that Gospel of yours was a yawner. If you hadn't pulled that resurrection stunt, nobody would care who you are today.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Besides Lazarus, you mean? (Yes, yes, I know it was Christ who brought him back.)</p>
<p>So, just so I have it straight&#8211;the most important thing for today&#8217;s Christian to focus on is that Christ suffered and died, while shunting off to the side the teachings he espoused while alive&#8230;because <i>anybody</i> could have come up with those teachings?</p>
<p>Dear Christ: that Gospel of yours was a yawner. If you hadn&#8217;t pulled that resurrection stunt, nobody would care who you are today.</p>
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		<title>By: Tuco Ramirez the Rat</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13273</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuco Ramirez the Rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13273</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...MM has factual refutations of conservative misinformation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And hires staffers who go on to hacking into elected officials' credit reports!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;MM has factual refutations of conservative misinformation.</p></blockquote>
<p>And hires staffers who go on to hacking into elected officials&#8217; credit reports!</p>
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		<title>By: BD</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13272</link>
		<dc:creator>BD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13272</guid>
		<description>So there's no difference between Edward R. Murrow, John Nash, and Jesus Christ?

Here's a hint: there are no world religions called Murrowism and Nashism. &lt;i&gt;Passion&lt;/i&gt; doesn't do Christianity any favors--to the outside observer, one would think that the only thing that made Christ special was that he suffered a lot, died, and came back from it. It's an entirely different translation to believe that Christianity is founded on violence and suffering than the idea that it was founded on love.

Pat Robertson, for example, sure enjoys calling for violence and destruction more than he enjoys calling for love and acceptance.

&lt;i&gt;Godspell&lt;/i&gt; was a better representation of Christ's life.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So there&#8217;s no difference between Edward R. Murrow, John Nash, and Jesus Christ?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a hint: there are no world religions called Murrowism and Nashism. <i>Passion</i> doesn&#8217;t do Christianity any favors&#8211;to the outside observer, one would think that the only thing that made Christ special was that he suffered a lot, died, and came back from it. It&#8217;s an entirely different translation to believe that Christianity is founded on violence and suffering than the idea that it was founded on love.</p>
<p>Pat Robertson, for example, sure enjoys calling for violence and destruction more than he enjoys calling for love and acceptance.</p>
<p><i>Godspell</i> was a better representation of Christ&#8217;s life.</p>
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		<title>By: Tuco Ramirez the Rat</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13271</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuco Ramirez the Rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13271</guid>
		<description>And academia is in no way, "the free market, baby," since most of it is public education.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And academia is in no way, &#8220;the free market, baby,&#8221; since most of it is public education.</p>
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		<title>By: BD</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13270</link>
		<dc:creator>BD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13270</guid>
		<description>Sam--are you implying that a film only espouses "liberal" values if it's rated R? And that everything with a tamer rating is somehow "conservative"?

Is Disney a "conservative" stronghold now? Even with all the Pride days?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam&#8211;are you implying that a film only espouses &#8220;liberal&#8221; values if it&#8217;s rated R? And that everything with a tamer rating is somehow &#8220;conservative&#8221;?</p>
<p>Is Disney a &#8220;conservative&#8221; stronghold now? Even with all the Pride days?</p>
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		<title>By: buma</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13269</link>
		<dc:creator>buma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13269</guid>
		<description>By the way, I found an interesting mpeg of a woman who looks very much like a younger Michelle Maglalang. And guess what? She is a notorious wanker too. Such a coincidence.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, I found an interesting mpeg of a woman who looks very much like a younger Michelle Maglalang. And guess what? She is a notorious wanker too. Such a coincidence.</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13268</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13268</guid>
		<description>Big Gay Al says:

"Well, history has proven that, whether in academia or in entertainment, liberal ideas hold sway. Liberal traditions, liberal values, liberal ideology has been tested in the marketplace of ideas and have proven superior to conservative ideas; hence, more of academia and entertainment is liberal. That s the free market, baby."

Of the top 50 highest grossing movies of all time, 46 carried ratings of G, PG or PG-13. The 4 R rated movies were "The Passion","The Excorcist", "Beverly Hills Cop" and "The Matrix". "Passion" was the highest grossing R at #10.

Help me out here Al. Which "traditions, values and ideology" are you referring to? And how exactly are they tested?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Big Gay Al says:</p>
<p>&#8220;Well, history has proven that, whether in academia or in entertainment, liberal ideas hold sway. Liberal traditions, liberal values, liberal ideology has been tested in the marketplace of ideas and have proven superior to conservative ideas; hence, more of academia and entertainment is liberal. That s the free market, baby.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of the top 50 highest grossing movies of all time, 46 carried ratings of G, PG or PG-13. The 4 R rated movies were &#8220;The Passion&#8221;,&#8221;The Excorcist&#8221;, &#8220;Beverly Hills Cop&#8221; and &#8220;The Matrix&#8221;. &#8220;Passion&#8221; was the highest grossing R at #10.</p>
<p>Help me out here Al. Which &#8220;traditions, values and ideology&#8221; are you referring to? And how exactly are they tested?</p>
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		<title>By: SaveFarris</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13267</link>
		<dc:creator>SaveFarris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13267</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;that the only thing that made Christ special was that he suffered a lot, died, and came back from it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, I can't think of any others who did it.  Can you?  The other things you mention (compassion, tolerance, and taking care of the least among us) are descriptive of MANY people while only JC can claim that first definition.  So I guess focusing on the one thing that made him special doesn't seem so odd, does it?

PS. Christ's death &#038; ressurection was the epitome of love.  Or have you checked out John 3:16 yet?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>that the only thing that made Christ special was that he suffered a lot, died, and came back from it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, I can&#8217;t think of any others who did it.  Can you?  The other things you mention (compassion, tolerance, and taking care of the least among us) are descriptive of MANY people while only JC can claim that first definition.  So I guess focusing on the one thing that made him special doesn&#8217;t seem so odd, does it?</p>
<p>PS. Christ&#8217;s death &#038; ressurection was the epitome of love.  Or have you checked out John 3:16 yet?</p>
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		<title>By: SaveFarris</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/11/17/the-war-on-fiction/#comment-13266</link>
		<dc:creator>SaveFarris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=946#comment-13266</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Passion of the Christ is a  conservative  film only in the way it downplays...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So it's not okay to downplay themes? When the shoe was on the other foot in 2001, conservatives were bashed because they protested that &lt;b&gt;A Beautiful Mind&lt;/b&gt; whitewashed John Nash's bio.  Likewise, this site didn't protest when George Clooney re-wrote history in &lt;b&gt;Good Night &#038; Good Luck&lt;/b&gt; in order to make Edward R. Murrow into a hero without peer.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Passion of the Christ is a  conservative  film only in the way it downplays&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>So it&#8217;s not okay to downplay themes? When the shoe was on the other foot in 2001, conservatives were bashed because they protested that <b>A Beautiful Mind</b> whitewashed John Nash&#8217;s bio.  Likewise, this site didn&#8217;t protest when George Clooney re-wrote history in <b>Good Night &#038; Good Luck</b> in order to make Edward R. Murrow into a hero without peer.</p>
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