Where did you find that bit of wisdom? On a bubble gum comic? Or a fortune cookie?

Why should I be the only person who doesn’t know I’m decent? That’s not humility, that’s lack of self – awareness. You’re confused.

The rest of your comment is typical left – wing stereotyping: All republicans are “redneck racists”. Wait and see, bigot, wait and see.

It’s amazing that everyone thinks he’s a decent person. Whatever. To support attacking Cambodia is a sign to me that one is not decent. Claiming how goddamn decent you are is a sign you’re not decent — let your actions and words speak for themselves, without your own labels.

However, I’m convinced you’re a just a parody of a right winger, something some joker down at Daily Kos thought up. I mean, shilling for Condi Rice? You actually think Dick Morris is serious, that “Condi for President” isn’t just a sham to appeal to suburban voters that the Republican party isn’t a group of redneck racists, even though this bloc would in fact desert at the polls preventing this from actually happening?

If I heard Cong. Murtha correctly, he is either uninformed or deranged. We either fight the war, or we leave. Congressman “Sgt. Fury” Murtha wants it both ways. As the “Church Lady” used to say, “How conveeeenient!”

The problem the Democrats face is : How will they support bugging out, which IMHO would be per se precipitously, thus resulting in unbelievabe chaos and turmoil in Iraq — at best — or civil war, with, of course, untold casualties — at worst; and, then recover from the same political blowback that has cost them the White House and both houses of Congress for so many years?

If this confirms your “most cynical suspicions about the American political system,” then, all I can say is, “You need to get out more, Quaker.”

which IMHO would be per se precipitously,

Then you are uninformed as to what Rep. Murtha has proposed.

Beyond that, you have once again cast your question in a way that treats the lives of American soldiers and Iraqi citizens as figures on a political ledger. That is an argument characteristic of the campaign operatives in the White House, not one that is of concern to decent people.

Quaker: The reason why the Democrats have to answer the question is because they re the ones who want to bug out.

Are those goalposts as heavy as they look?

Here’s your original comment:

The question you have to ask yourselves is this: Can the Democrats support bugging out of Iraq, and wipe the stench of death off themselves by Labor Day, 2006?

Your original framing was NOT in terms of what’s best for Iraq, or what’s best for America’s moral standing in the world. (Those are, in fact, valid questions that should be answered by those who seek to “stay the course” as well as those who think our usefulness in Iraq has ended.) Your original comment was cast in terms of what’s advantageous from a partisan perspective.

It is to that framing that I reply:

A more interesting question is: Should one calculate the value of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians in terms of electoral wins and losses?

That anyone, Democrat or Republican, would play at war for political advantage confirms my most cynical suspicions about the American political system.

WTF?

I don’t want to be like you and act immature, but you are the one who started them. You can dish it out but take it in. Anyways, Oliver I was not advocating the war in my first post, I was simply saying that if we pull out now that it would be worse if we stayed there. This guy is so left-wing that even those to the extreme left-wing are distancing themselves from him.

And the hypocrisy in your comment is noted with the “Reich remark”. I am a Jew you moron.

Very clever, sirkowski, spoken like a true liberal.

See, all you lefties, he speaks for you…

You made the trip worthwile, scumbag…

Supporting the troops, indeed…

That’s because YOU WERE one of the bad guys.

Well, our staying there certainly hasn’t been a picnic for the Iraqi’s either. What we need to do is pull out our troops, develop a schedule for America to pay restitution for the destruction we’ve caused, work with the international community to stabilize the region that we destabilized, and send out top commanders to the Hague (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Richard Myers, etc.) for war crimes against Iraq.

And, please, there is no war on terrorism. It’s just a buzzword tactic created by the GOP – terrorism is a tactic, not an enemy. It’s just impossible. It’s about as phony as the “War on Drugs(R)”

Don’t you think you should refrain from advocating this until you’ve served your country in uniform?

That’s as foolish as me telling you to go join the socialist party just because you share their values.

OK, I’ll bite — who was right about Vietnam? Bush? Cheney? You? Target?

(My keyboard is sitting on a cheap desk that was manufactured in Vietnam. Target is benefitting from the cheap labor there.)

Imagine our standing after our 4th diplomatic defeat in 30 years  Viet Nam, Iran, Haiti and Somalia.
Yes, you’d think we’d stop repeating the same mistakes, no? Staying in Iraq is repeating the mistake.

I want to know: Whose rights have these dissenters ever stood for? What part of “all men are created equal” do they not understand? Are they racists who believe they are better than their brown-skinned brothers in Iraq?

It should be clear to everyone that

1) Bugging out would be disastrous for the Iraqis, and disastrous for is in terms of our war on terrorism…

What could we do, where could we go next, if we leave Iraq now?

and

2) And, it should be clear that we may have lost some moral standing and diplomatic leverage in the world, because of our involvement in Iraq. Imagine our standing after our 4th diplomatic defeat in 30 years — Viet Nam, Iran, Haiti and Somalia.

I can’t believe I’m having this discussion again, 30 years later. It would be so easy to say, “Who cares about Iraq?” and “Bring our boys home”, but this time we have to worry about terrorists coming here. You can say our safety is an illusion, because our men are getting killed in Iraq, but what will you say when they are home, and people are getting killed here by terrorists emboldened by our failure to finish our mission in Iraq?

The deadly combination of an underestimated enemy in the insurgency, and lack of popular support here at home, has made it unwinnable. That was the recipe for failure in Vietnam, and it sure looks like history is repeating itself.

Save a bit of face, and get the hell out. I said as much last week….anything short of that dishonors our troops.

JK