Kids, this is politics and this is what it consists of. Backstabing, lies and all kinds of negative stuff going down.

Oliver is biased and only points out one point of view, but the real point of view is both parties are worthless and are corupt. It’s like Satan verses Satan and going off on religious beliefs isn’t going to help your cause.

Oliver, you need to move out to the rest of the country and get away from politics, it’s time you can do more productive things with.

You are still ‘err’ confused. I don’t particualry support Bush. I just question cartoon ish, buffoonish critiicsms of the left. Most leftists can’t argue intelligently beyond that point. See above with frame blown out of the water when he/she tries to debate rationally.

Dugger

Well, it is easier than actually thinkng.

Dugger

There are already 30+ posts in which voices from both sides of the aisle proclaim their love for the troops/vets. But none of y’all actually talkin’ ’bout troops or the vets – y’all talkin’ ’bout The War. Those on the right say if you support the troops, you should support The War; the left says The War is wrong and that the best way to support the troops is by bringing them safely home.

But do any of you actually think for one second that someone struggling to survive in Iraq right this very moment actually gives one flea speck of shite about what you, or I or OW thinks of this war? Do any of you really believe that my opposition to the war will so weaken the morale of some Marine in Ramadi that he will no longer be able to get off his cot in the morning and go fight? Or that your support of the war will give him the will and courage he needs to carry on? Puh-leeze.

This aint the 1960s, people. The anti-war movement has thankfully moved beyond spitting on returning soldiers and calling them “babykillers.” Discussions like this one have little or no bearing on troop morale or well-being. So if, in fact, any of you are serious about supporting the troops, you need to start moving your focus beyond your own personal opinion of the war. Focus instead on those people whose opinions can actually make the difference between life and death to the people who are fighting in it. I’m talking, of course, about the current occupants of the White House and Capitol Hill.

Now, each of us no doubt has an elected representative who at some point has wrapped him or herself in the flag, proclaimed their love of mom, apple pie, baseball and every young man and woman fighting in Iraq. But that’s not what I’m talking about. That kind of posing is not too dis-similar from the kind of meaningless crap you will read in threads like this one. But unlike you or I, your average elected rep has a much more substantive way of making his opinion known: The Power of the Purse.

How many of you have taken the time to familiarize yourself with the president’s – or your own congressman’s or senator’s – position when it comes to support for issues like veteran’s health benefits? Woefully few, I suspect. But don’t you think a much more constructive use of your time might be to find out how the person who allegedly represents you in D.C. actually votes on such matters and to try and influence their opinion by writing to them rather than to some anonymous asshole who posts on a blogsite? Have your reps supported the funding and oversight bills that ensure our soldiers are getting everything they need in terms of equipment? Have they voted to fund adequate levels of health care for returning veterans? Or, have they sought cuts to those particular budgetary items to help finance a tax cut that most people on a military pay scale will never even benefit from?

Remember: Supporting the troops is not about you or your own two-bit opinion of this war. It’s about making sure that the people who are fighting it have all they need while in the field and upon their return.

A 92 Mike is indeed an MOS for mortuary affairs, but the excerpt that he wrote could have been correct under certain circumstances. In-Country many people would be assigned to mortuary affairs. My dad was a CW2 while he was in Vietnam, he was assigned to an Engineer outfit, but did a stint as the OIC of a mortuary, because there was nobody there to fill the slot.

“Bagging Detail”, has always been in regard to filling sandbags to my recollection, I do sort of doubt that a detail to meet bodies would be reserved for Soldiers in trouble. That has always been a solemn detail at Dover.

The piece that just.jim wrote sounded like it could have come out of a book written by McDonough or Caputo. I am inclined to believe that it is fiction as well.

AlexCorrigan,

Do you mean to imply that troops that are deploying forward have no balls or brains because we don’t mutiny? In case you are wondering, mutiny or sedition are the terms that the armed forces use when service members refuse to execute lawful orders. I hope you don’t mean to imply that.

You people make me sick.

Support the troops my ass.

And unions suck too.

Salute and follow orders when Adolph Hitler said ‘do it’ and when Hideki Tojo said ‘do it’ and when Benito Mussolini said ‘do it’ and when Nathan Bedford Forrest said ‘do it’ and when Josef Stalin said ‘do it’ and when–

The difference between marching for ‘tyranny’ and marching for ‘freedom’ is when those who do the marching (and their fellow citizens back home) have the balls and the brains to ask “Why are we marching?”

UN resolutions? Israel violates them consistently. We don’t unilaterally invade to “enforce” them. Are you guys repudiating your fellow wingnuts who have nothing for contempt for the UN? Or are you among them, and thus hypocrites of the first and highest order?

My point is: all this nitpicking is a waste of time. You wanted a war, and you got one. No real concern as to why, you just wanted to go kick ass, and you did…. and now we-all are suffering the backlash and the cost.

I wish someone had trotted out all the damned “we have to have an exit strategy” and “we can’t go into an open-ended war” quotes from Shrub and DeLay back in 2002 when they were pushing for thi s fucking war! Thanks guys. Glad to see the oppo research team finally show up to work– 3 years too late.

But that’s all behind us now. We’re in, America wants out, let’s get out.

And I am very tired of all the “troop worship”. Somebody explain why exactly it is necessary for a patriot to “Support the Troops”, but not to “Support the Teachers”, for exaple? Soldiers, saliors, marines, and airmen have a important, difficult, dangerous, low-paying jobs, and deserve respect and good treatment. And so do cops, firefighters, social workers, drug counsellors, nurses, public defenders, construction workers, and teachers, goddammit. And they deserve the same level of reverent devotion that our troop-worshipping friends on the right only issue to uniformed personnel.

I’m glad our friends on the left have grown out of the teenage habit of bashing troops or cops just because their jobs involve carrying guns. I’ll be happy when our friends on the right grow out of the teenage habit of shitting on every *other* working person (Hey, how do you feel about unions? Just asking.), just becuase their jobs do *not* involve carrying guns.

To paraphrase Bill Hicks, either you love all working people– military and non-military–, or you shut the fuck up.

So chew on that one for a while.

“[Iraq] violated 12 UN proclamations including ones that required it to PROVE that it had destroyed WMD s. It shot daily at naval aviators and air force pilots who were lawfully over the country enforcing a UN MANDATED no-fly zone.”

By the way, how was Saddam supposed to ‘prove’ he had destroyed WMDs? Bush did a bit of sabre-rattling that gave UN inspectors access to whichever sites they wished to investigate (as well as a few other sites suspected by Rumsfeld and Powell). But just as it began to appear that Iraq had no illegal weapons, Bush of course pulled the inspectors out. Bush squandered an admirable position he gained by waving the big stick to enforce diplomatic efforts — for an expensive invasion and a very expensive occupation.

“….American Soldier, dugger1 and drpedro have criticized Americans for being against Bush s war. Let s see how our favorite wingers try to spin these critics:”

I have done no such thing. I am very much for the war and support myself(soldier) in this effort.

Oh, you support the troops by BELIEVING…now I see. What ARE the proper tools OW? A magic force field? Telepathy? What do you BELIEVE about that?

Iraq violated a cease fire- an immediate causis belli. It violated 12 UN proclamations including ones that required it to PROVE that it had destroyed WMD’s. It shot daily at naval aviators and air force pilots who were lawfully over the country enforcing a UN MANDATED no-fly zone. It violated lord knows how much of the “oil for food” program, bribing our european “allies” with billions.

Crap OW, you spew absolute crap

I think you are full of shit. Bobby trapped latrine huh?

Squandered, well sit back on your posh chair and type away. Enjoy it.

“You can support the troops but not the president.”
–Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

“Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years.”
–Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

“Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?”
–Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

“[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy.”
–Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)

“If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.”
–Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of Gov George W Bush

“I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . I didn’t think we had done enough in the diplomatic area.”
–Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

“I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today”
–Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.”
–Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)