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Viet Nam — It was always right!…

And mega-thanks to you, Dkelsmith and all your brothers and sisters in the Armed Forces.

Because of people like you, ordinary citizens like us can banter about on the web. I, for one, will never forget the sacrifices the men and women of our Armed Services make to keep us free.

Take a minute and go to Dkel’s site. He has some good Veteran’s Day Vibes.

I believe Christ said this first, right? But moving on …

“Where would we be then?”

Where are now?

Nice straw man. But I don’t think he could have gotten a nuke program up and running ever again, and I don’t think he had any real connection to terrorism. Plus, the inspections were working. Turing a authoritarian Iraq into 1980s Lebanon is not helpful to our interests, and not worth fighting a war over. The nuclear threat was always a joke, and that’s what got us into this war. I’m glad you’ve conceded that point. You’re growing, Zorro! Congratulations!

“I coudn t give a shit if you were righteously indignant”

Uhh, you cared two posts back when you heatedly accused me of it. But you know, I most definitely am indignant. We got sold a war based on spurious pretenses that’s done us no good at all, with no sign of turning around.

Is that the same as Bush’s repetition of the lie,” The reason I’m saying that there is a connection between Al-Qaeda and Iraq is because there is a connection between Al-Qaeda and Iraq.”

Pot, this is the kettle calling.

Read the 9/11 report. Or is that an example of “liberal media”?

The Dems have nothing to be nervous about. This sham of an administration is unravelling.

“But I am very firm in my desire to make sure that Saddam is disarmed. Hopefully, we can do this peacefully. The use of the military is my last choice, is my last desire.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021014-2.html

Now, my question is, if WMDs were just one of the “many factors” for going to war, why would the President say the above? Wouldn’t he have said “Even if Saddam disarms, it is our duty to remove him from power. If WMDs were not the major rationale for war, why did Scotty say the following:

“This is about disarmament and this is a final opportunity for Saddam Hussein to disarm. If he chooses not to do so peacefully, then the United States is prepared to act, with our friends, to do so by force. And we will do so forcefully and swiftly and decisively, as the President has outlined. But the President continues to seek a peaceful resolution. War is a last resort.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/11/20021112-5.html

Note, again, what he did not say. He did not say, “well, WMDs are just part of the reason to pursue action, there are others, like he’s a BAD GUY!!!”

Bush again:

“And obviously, I weighed all the consequences about all the differences. Hopefully, we can do this peacefully — don’t get me wrong. And if the world were to collectively come together to do so, and to put pressure on Saddam Hussein and convince him to disarm, there’s a chance he may decide to do that.

And war is not my first choice, don’t — it’s my last choice. But nevertheless, it is a — it is an option in order to make the world a more peaceful place.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/11/20021107-2.html
(all above via Atrios)

In order to ensure that we are not talking past each other, I ask that conservatives who posit “WMDs were only one reason to go to war”, please tell me why the administration repeatedly made the claim that War was a last resort if Saddam would not disarm.

Given the fact that pre-war, the Pentagon estimated Saddam’s military threat to be less than 25% of its pre-Gulf War strength–yes.

Given the fact Saddam had no WMDs–yes.

Given the fact Saddam didn’t control over half his own country–yes.

If you really believe Saddam posed a big threat to anyone, except his own people—I’ll bet you watch the Saturday AM cartoons with the belief that this will be the episode where Wile E. Coyote catches Roadrunner.

“The Democrats want us to all to feel the liberation of Iraq was wrong. And they will dissemble at every opportunity in furtherance of that goal.”

The one talent this administration possesses is the ability to ‘dissemble’.

What democrats and what most responsible diplomats, like Colin Powell feel about the ‘liberation’ of Iraq, is that it was accomplished through the
wiles of the administration of vituperation, perhaps at the expense of the global war on terrorism.

The  War Powers Act was designed as an expeditious detour for the normally slow legislative process.

It is based upon an implicit trust in the executive branch.

If there should be a need for  trust in the President s judgemental sense and the trustworthiness of his advisors in the future, what do you suppose the reaction is going to be if a true need for a  preemptive strike against
another country should arise in the future?

The damage these a.) dolts, in the best case scenario, or b.) criminals
have done to this country s security is beyond any historical precedent.

They have set the war on terrorism back better than Al Qaeda could have accomplished on their own.

Where was it Bush denouced a majority or even large minority or small minority of Americans as wacko for mreely disagreeing with him. I missed that. And I’m sure its not hyperbole on your part. I must have been in Va. tampering with ballots (did a bad job), per OWs “house on fire” post. bad, bad Mr. Bush. All the time denouncing majorities as wackos for doing nothing more than disagreeing wi hthim.

Dugger : “Good morning isn’t it Mr. President?” pres Bush: “Its a bad morning, commie wacko!”

“All that matters is that they would never have gotten public opinion OR a Congressional resolution without hyping the nuclear threat.”

You should spend less time reading over at Kos and try some critical thinking for a change. Do you honestly think that Saddam was going to be a good boy with the no-fly zones and stay in his little box? If so, your as stupid as you sound. SD was a proven sociopath and even if he died or was overthrown by his sadistic kids, where would we be then? You have got to come back to reality man and quit spending so much time sucking on the bong.

This is a variation of the old “Dems prefer Saddam” theme. Of course, this is a deflection away from the real issue which is the rationale for taking this country to war.

If AWOL George had gone to the US public back in 2003 and said, ‘Hey, this Saddam fella’s really bad news and just a horrible leader who brutalizes his own people–let’s take him out.’–that would be one thing. At least it would be honest. But, frankly, honesty wouldn’t have gathered the support of the American people who would have very likely responded: ‘Yeah, Saddam’s a terrible despot but so are about 25 other dictators we could name. And as much as we’d love to see him gone–we don’t think the sacrifice of US troops is worth it.’

Your opinion’s shit, Zorro. It was what they talked about in the lead up to war in Bush’s speeches and in administration talk show appearances, over and over again. It was what they went to Congress in closed session over. Dick Cheney never went on Meet the Press to talk about Middle Eastern democracy for an hour. Fucking A I’m righteously indignant, asshole. These guys hyped the nuke issue and took us to war over it. Whether it was their most important motive, whether it was your reason or Instapundit’s most important motive is irrelevant. All that matters is that they would never have gotten public opinion OR a Congressional resolution without hyping the nuclear threat.

It was just the portion the administration talked about 10 times as much as any other reason for war. You can’t keep lying to us about this. We watched the state of the union. We watched the cincinnatti speech. We watched his speech on the eve of the war. We watched their appearances on the talk shows. Freedom, changing the culture of the middle east? These were mentioned, but in comparison to the hyping of WMD, they pale, and you know it. Bush never would have gotten the country or the congress to go along with the war without WMD, and you know it. Luckily, the country is starting to wake up to this shit, too.