Closeau & Magoo
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That’s the new name for Hastert and Frist, who made a big show of looking into who leaked the information about the CIA’s secret prisons. Turns out… it was a Republican senator!
31 Responses to “Closeau & Magoo”
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
Or so says Trent Lott.
Cue the wingers to accuse OW of defending Trent Lott! Yee haw!
This whole thing is pretty awesome. Republicans think they can talk about the leaking of information about secret torture prisons without hurting… the president who set up secret torture prisons? Really? The whole thing deserves as much sunlight as possible, so I applaud this instance of Republicans being dumb, since it advances the national interest of stopping this gulag shit from happening.
And, so…….
if true, Republicans would be calling for an investigation of, likely, a Republican. I have no problem with that. Do you? I’d say from here on out investigate every leak and punish the leakers – regardless of stripe. BTW, I bet there will come a time when you won’t like this precedence. I’d still like to see us fry Agee’s *ss – but thats just me. He’s a hero to progressives.
Dugger
It’s all just too funny. Let’s see what happens to Republican credibility when Frist and Hastert let the whole thing drop because they don’t want to further harm US national security, or some such bullshit.
Not unlike a Republican justice department assigning a Republican prosecutor to investigate a Republican White House.
I think Dugger has spotted a trend.
“The Spy Who Came inFrom the Cold” No, it’s not John LeCarre’s Smiley, it’s the Cheshire Cat, Chalabi.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1636593,00.html
Leaks can be harmful to the country’s security, or it can be beneficial. The question is; Can you see the difference?
Kevin Drum has unearthed a little more and asks some good questions;
” Lott told reporters the information in the Post story was the same as that given to Republican senators in a closed-door briefing by Vice President Dick Cheney last week.
“Every word that was said in there went right to the newspaper,” he said. “We can’t keep our mouths shut.”
….He said the investigation Frist and Hastert want may result in an ethics probe of a Senate member.
So, um, Cheney told a bunch of Republican senators about the CIA’s black sites? How did they respond to that? And who was in that meeting, anyway? Was Frist there?
Don’t leave us hanging, Trent. If you’re going to tell us part of the story, tell us the whole thing.”
Dugger –
I fully welcome the investigation. I think the more we get to talk about secret prisons in the former Soviet Union. I totally want to hear why it’s a matter of national security that the Red Cross must not know where we keep and how we treat prisoners arrested in the war on terror. I’m dying to hear all about the important interogation techniques that must now be suspended because the whereabouts of these prisons is now known. I’m sure the Republican leadership is dying to keep all this in the public eye too — especially if the investigation leads back, again, to a Republican and Dick Cheney’s office. So to sum up, I fully support the investigation. Now let’s see if Haster and Frist really intend to follow through. Who knows, maybe their announcement was all just a stunt.
frame
I’m actually for it – let the chip[s fall where they may. But I KNOW, this is one of those deals when bitter liberal partisans could care squat about the CIA and security but more about getting Republicans and forwarding their ideologoical agenda. Witness from Semant: ” Leaks can be harmful to the country s security, or it can be beneficial.” I was not fooled when liberals said they really, really like soldiers back during the last election (they didn’t and don’t) and not now when they are getting all self-righteous about CIA security.
Dugger
Dugger;
One almost always overreaches when generalizing;
bitter liberal partisans could care squat about the CIA and security
I was not fooled when liberals said they really, really like soldiers back during the last election.
Unreasonable points to make, especially from one normally circumspect.
No, Dugger’s the circumspect one. Dugger1 is his excitable, slightly brain damaged clone.
Semant,
“Unreasonable points to make, especially from one normally circumspect. ”
I don’t really think so. The true nature of a professional soldier is such that a true ideological left winger does not like him, his ethos, or his value structure. Mark my words, sonny,: that won’t change in your life time.
Same is true of the any CIA type spy agency, most of whose job, in this modern world, would be directed against either left wing regimes or regimes like Iran and Syria, whose leaders hate George Bush almost as much as US left wingers (the enemy of your most hated, villainous enemy can’t be all bad, right)?
You can call me Dugger or you can call me Dugger1, but you doesn’t have to call me Johnson
Duger:
“the enemy of your most hated, villainous enemy can t be all bad, right?”
Wrong. For years, the biggest enemy (besides us) of our biggest enemy was China. They are bad.
Seriously, why do you have two accounts, Dugger/dugger1?
Dugger –
I think the distinction is fairly clear. There’s leaks that do harm to national security: The outing of a CIA operative for short term partisan political gain. There’s leaks that utlimately benefit national security: The revelation that the CIA is operating a secret prison system with no legislative, judicial or humanitarian oversight in an effort to avoid possible legal ramifications:
“the CIA has not even acknowledged the existence of its black sites. To do so, say officials familiar with the program, could open the U.S. government to legal challenges, particularly in foreign courts, and increase the risk of political condemnation at home and abroad.”
This kind of activity has a negative impact on our national security because it undermines our moral and legal standing in the world. You see liberals have principles and stand by them. Conservatives apparently do not.
Not quite, Tom.
Agee’s day was in the 1970s and apparently, Dugger’s still sore about him. Churchill is, for better or worse, a current-day irrelevancy.
Agee joins Ward Churchill in the pantheon of leftwing heroes that liberals have never themselves heard of. All hail Churchill and Agee! May your legends long be sung on the right wing blogosphere!
Yeah. Down at left wing HQ, we love us some Philip Agee. We talk about that dude all the time.
Haw!
Now, frame, try and think here -
“The outing of a CIA operative for short term partisan political gain.’
- exactly why would leaker ‘motivation’ for the outing make jack squat difference as to the amount of harm done? Whether I leak CIA operative X because I want destroy humble-shoeshine-boy Joe Wilson or because I have dedicated my life to destroying the running dog lackeys of the imperial hegemonists – makes no diffrence. X was still leaked either way Besides no one has been charged with leaking a CIA operative’s identity. The last one who did that to my knowledge was left wing icon Philip Agee.
As to your other alleged leak,. Then we can assume, for you, no principle, other than strident left wing ideology, applies here. If a potential leak would embarrasss Rs, then leaking is sooo bad. But if leftists don’t like what the CIA is doing in another case, even though the CIA says it is necessary to do their job , then – h*ll yeah, leak it. Get those fascist b*stards. Right? That howit works. I always wondered why the left talked about Plame but never ever about Agee.
Agee just got CIA agents killed. The Plame leak might embarrasss Rs.
Dugger
Great News for all those who find WMD’s and Al Qaeda/Saddam alliance beside the point and rather, ahem, inane; Condi is rolling out the Red Carpet for one of the Great Heros of the Iraq War.
http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Politics&loid=8.0.226291892&par=0
Dugger;
You keep bringing up Agee. When and how were CIA agents killed?
Upon what information is that based.?
That’s just silly.
The men and women serving in the armed forces–especially the ones in the guard and reserves–are our neighbors and co-workers. Their families live in our neighborhoods and their children attend our schools.
We’d like them to be able to serve safely and return home again, please.
Dugger you missed my point precisely because if you don’t consider the motivation in the Plame leak, the leak is still bad for national security. I was simply trying to differentiate between a classic “whistleblower” leak which is entirely justifiable and a leak for, really, no good reason whatsoever.
One could make a case that the leaking of classified information about secret CIA prisons that fall outside all judicial, legislative and humanitarian oversight is a classic “whistelblower” leak in that the US government should not be in the business of operating secret prisons no matter what the raional is because secret prisons go against everything this country claims to stand for and represent in the world. The person who leaked this information, Republican or otherwise, was trying to expose a corrupt and corrupting, if not outright illegal, policy. That’s a justified leak of classified information here and it’s a strictly principled one as well.
Frist and Hastert are the ones playing an unrpincipled game of tit-for-tat here. Remember, I don’t hear any Dems arguing that this investigation should not take place. But I hear plenty of Republicans arguing that there should never have been an investigation into the Plame leak. Where’s the hypocrisy? I totally support the investigation that Frist and Hastert have called for in part because I would like to hear more officials go on record about why we need a system of secret prisoners that operates beyond any reasonable judicial, legislative or humanitarian oversight. Granted, this investigation will indeed raise some serious challenges to reporter’s ability to protect anonymous sources but I believe that any reasonable judge will be able to see the difference between a leak for the public good, and a leak for no good reason whatsoever. If you can’t see that difference, well, good luck with that.
I am sure in the weeks and months ahead if the investigation proceeds (and let’s see how far they take this if its true that a Republican did the leaking) we can expect the old Dugster reasoning to flower in full hypcritical bloom. I can’t wait to hear: “So what if the leaker said “Prisons in an Eastern European country, we all know he meant Poland.” Or maybe we’ll hear: “Just because the people living next door to the prison saw Arabic prisoners arriving in the dead of night, guarded by American sounding men, doesn’t mean the prison’s existence wasn’t still classified.”
“The real question is why am I the only sore about this leftist hero (and it tells something about you TomY, that you say you ve never heard of Agee)?”
Gosh, outing hundreds of agents sure sounds bad. Whee, can I be in the kool kids klub again, Dugger? And I also don’t understand why that makes outing Plame okay? And why do you have two names?
Damn Dugger you’re thick. Fitzgerald said explicitly, directly without qualification that Libby leaked classified information to Judith Miller and that the first sign that Wilson’s cover had been blown was when her name appeared in the Novak column. That’s what Fizgerald said. I’ve posted the exact quotes from his press conference and the indictment but you just ignore them. It’s precisely that kind of willful ignorance that makes your ability to judge anything suspect.
The fact that Fitzgerald didn’t charge Libby with a crime has nothing to do with his stated certainty that Libby leaked classified information. Fitzgerald couldn’t prove criminal intent. He said so in the press conference. Here you go, bright boy:
“The indictment returned today alleges that the efforts of the grand jury to investigate such a leak were obstructed when Mr. Libby lied about how and when he learned and subsequently disclosed classified information about Valerie Wilson, [Fitzgerald] added.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/documents/libby_pr_28102005.pdf
Tell me and my lying eyes that that doesn’t say Libby disclosed classified information about Valerie Wilson.
Agee outed hundred of agents in the sixties/seventies. He worked for a magazine, Counterspy, that then outed a CIA chief (in Greece I believe – Welch). Welch was subsequently murdered. Agee is now in Cuba but was used not too long ago by Jake Tapper and ABC to comment negatively on Bush re Plame. In 2000, CNN featured a ‘cute’ piece with Agee as a travel agent, urging visitors to come to Cuba. He’s also been featured (not treated as a traitor) by Pacifica, Counterpunch, BBC and several blogs. The real question is why am I the only sore about this leftist hero (and it tells something about you TomY, that you say you’ve never heard of Agee)? But then I guess leftists may approve of Agee’s leaks. See discussion below.
frame,
I understand your point, but it still boils down to your saying that a leak is OK if you approve of what is leaked and not OK if you disapprove of what is leaked. Do i get vote about what to leak? Conservatives? The CIA? Or does the left hold all the cards here and can just punish only those leakers they disgree with? And I will point out to to you once again that there has been no “Plame leak” in the sense you are saying. Before Novak, before Libby – the evidence is overwhelming that her full identity and employment in the CIA was available in unclassified circles. As I have reasoned with you beforee, this is probably why Fitz brought no charges in this area – that cat was out of the bag.
Dugger
Dugger;
The only places that even intimate that Agee is a hero of the left-wing is PoliPundit and Moderate Left(hardly it seems).
The only viable reference to that inference from a credible source made an oblique reference to Brit left-wingers who may have helped him fight extradition. Being Left Wing does not a Castro supporter make, Dugger.
Tom, Dugger is playing the “lefties-are-hypocrites” card here.
He’s saying that liberals aren’t really concerned about the protection of CIA agents or interested in national security. We’re just faking it so we can hang a Republican.
It works like this: This fellow Agee, who bolted the CIA 30 years ago, gets mentioned in a few (lefty oriented) media outlets and the stories fail to remind everyone of his evil past deeds. THEREFORE, reasons our loyal correspondent, we must be just engaging in crass partisanship when we watch and cheer while a Republican prosecutor brings an indictment against a Republican White House staffer for leaking classified information.
How can that not make sense to you?
Oh, I get it now. I’m faking my outrage about Plame getting outed because I love it when our national security is compromised, and this is proven by this Agee fellow who I’ve never heard about before. Or is it that I have heard of him, but I kept it secret from myself to maintain my airtight story? Dugger, if it helps my credentials, I am also totally against Benedict Arnold, but I’ve been reluctant to mention it because the liberal media has programmed me to love him.
“I understand your point, but it still boils down to your saying that a leak is OK if you approve of what is leaked and not OK if you disapprove of what is leaked. Do i get vote about what to leak? Conservatives? The CIA?”
Of course I get to judge the rightness or wrongness of a leak. So do you. We’re citizens of the United States, right? But if you’re talking about who gets to make the decision to investigate a leak and pass official, legal judgement on its rightness or wrongness, I suppose that lies with Congress or the DOJ or the CIA or some combination thereof. I said I supported this investigation as I supported the Wilson investigation. It’s the Republican Congress who rejected one investigation and then through its support behind another. I’m not the one with two different, conflicting opinions on when to investigate a leak and when to not. The possibility that there will be an investigation is one of the risks whistleblowers take to bring illegality or injustices to light. I believe any judge, in looking at the leak and the right to protect anonymous sources, will reasonably conclude that the leak about a secret prison system run by an arm of US government was indeed in the public good. What I am looking forward to is exactly that debate: Should an arm of the US government be allowed to run a secret prison system with tax payer money that nevertheless operates beyond all legislative, judicial or humanitarian oversight. I welcome you to make the pro-secret prison system argument.