Not again.
News 7 has received calls from several voters in at least four different precincts who say their votes for Tim Kaine were not recorded or took several attempts to go through.
They contend the electronic touch screens repeatedly indicated they were voting for Republican candidate Jerry Kilgore instead of registering their intended vote for his Democratic opponent Tim Kaine.
Reality check: any person or group with the resources and skills to compromise electronic voting machines would do so in such a way that the fraudulent vote won’t appear on the screen to the voter when he pushes the button. Just think about it for a few seconds.
So scratch, you are saying that vote rigging is not happening because you would design the rigging system better?
Actually Dugger, your analysis does not take into account two stolen elections so far and no voting reform implemented yet. If the shoe fits, wear it baby.
It doesn’t have to be rigging. It could just be incompetence. Not that that makes it any better. In fact, I think it’s worse.
SadieB-
Are you talking about Gregoire vs Rossi and Ashcroft vs Carnahan?
Gee, Sadie, I would imagine the biggest reason there hasn’t been much reform is because Democrats, while they’ll grandstand on tinfoil hat theories about Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004, know how much they benefit from voter fraud.
I’ll make you a deal: I’ll support whatever “reform” you want, I’ll email legislators with whatever suggestions you have, if you’ll support one thing: A picture ID being required to vote.
Deal? Didn’t think so.
And actually Scratch, your analysis, mistakenly based on common sense as it is, does not take into account the genetically passed-on, proven beyond doubt, corrupt evilness (Eliot’s younger brother – but I humorously digress) of all Republicans. This is a close election and until, and only if , Kaine wins it, it must be considered stolen.
Dugger,
Well, we know that gubenatorial election in Washington State was stolen. What other one are you talking about Sadie?
(Yeah- I thought that was funny. On a serious note- how exactly was either election YOU are talking about “stolen.” Be specific and give clear, indisputable evidence. And I don’t mean conjecture. I mean facts. That should be entertaining.)
In 2000, the majority of the voters in Florida intended to vote for Al Gore, while numerous elderly voters were confused by the butterfly ballot and voted for Buchanan, black voters in northern Florida (where they can get away with it) were systematically intimidated and misinformed as to how and when they could vote. Rioters in Dade County prevented a recount. The Supreme Court threw out precedent and made a ruling applicable only to Bush vs. Gore in its decision. I do not believe that 2004 was stolen, though again we had numerous instances of voting machine breakdowns and ridiculous lines in Ohio, heavily concentrated in black areas – much more likely to vote Democratic.
Sadie,
You do realize that elections are carried out at the state and local level, don’t you?
The reason there hasn’t been any reform is because the Republicans control all four branches of the government (I include the media in there, too).
I’m more than happy to call your bluff on the picture ID –sure. Require picture ID, only make sure everyone has a chance to get it!
I think we all know about the situation in Georgia, where you can get voter ID cards, no problem, yet strangley enough there are no locations to get these cards in Atlanta. Isn’t that interesting? The nearby, white, counties have access to voter cards, though they don’t need them because the people in the suburbs have drivers’ licenses, so it’s really just for show. Just like the white counties have up-to-date, modern voting machines and plenty of them. Now why would that be?
Like it or not, until the voting system in this country is open, fair and accountable, the election results will always be questionable, and the burden of proof falls on those who have the power to do something about it but choose not to.
Close race, I am sure, but that sounds like Urban Legend type stuff.
Yes, Brandon, of course. You do realize that that does not have anything to do with my argument?
Rhys…
you are saying that vote rigging is not happening because you would design the rigging system better?
No, I’m saying that anyone who has the access and the skill to fix electronic votes would not make such a crude system. That’s like saying, “The FBI is spying on me. I know, because there are 5 men in suits and badges standing in the middle of my front yard looking at my house with binoculars.”
Do you honestly think someone would go through all the effort to defraud however many hundreds or thousands of voters required, then not take even the most rudimentary steps to avoid detection, such as not alerting even the most casually observant voter that the machine did something other than what they told it to do? I ask the question rhetorically, because I have no intention of getting deep into such a silly discussion.
Scratch asks an interesting question.
Of course, who would expect a former FBI agent and lawyer to stage a third-rate burglary on behalf of an incumbent President’s campaign that would go on to one of the most lop-sided victories in Presidential politics?
Who would expect the Vice President and the Preznit’s Senior advisor would leak the name of a classified CIA agent as revenge?
The Same Voting Problems As 2004
Oliver Willis points to a story in which several Viriginia citizens tried to vote for the Democratic party candidate for governor, and the electronic voting machine repeatedly indicated that the vote was for the Republican candidate.
This happened…
scratch, a system which changes it on-screen is actually easier to explain away than one that ignores what the user hit and does something hidden. It can be explained away as human error: “Well, the voter pressed the OK button, so that must have been what they meant – they should have been paying more attention”. cf. butterfly ballots. The logs all match up in the machines and the counting centre, so it must have been operator error.
There’s also computer programmer stupidity syndrome. Programmers don’t think like human beings. Something can seem very subtle and clever to a programmer which is actually blindingly obvious to everyone else. I’m a programmer by the way – I’ve seen a lot of people implement security systems, for example, that won’t last 10 seconds against an attacker, and yet they literally cannot understand why the system is vulnerable even when it is patiently explained to them. A UI flaw like this would make perfect sense to a programmer trying to find a subtle way to rig the results.
It is interesting that it is only Democrats who raise red flags about miscasting on Diebold machines. If it was some kind of systemic problem (faulty touchscreens or a confusing UI), then we would expect to see an equal number of Republicans also complaining. Why don’t we? Surely a Republican would be just as ticked off to find the machine not doing what they expected?
Like strange exit polling data, this is something that should be properly investigated, not just waved away. If it cannot be adequately explained, the machines should be abandoned.
A little help for Marty—
The NORC Florida [2000] Ballots Project revealed that if the ballots were fully recounted statewide (an undertaking that was halted by Katherine Harris) using the standard of each canvassing board, Gore would have won [page 8]. Ironically, each party was actually arguing for changes that would have undercut its candidate [page 9]. Thanks to Harris and the SCOTUS the theft was successful.
http://www.aei.org/docLib/20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf
“…black voters in northern Florida (where they can get away with it) were systematically intimidated and misinformed as to how and when they could vote.”
I’m pretty sure Kerry said there were over 1 million African-American.
Can you give me the name of one of the “disenfranchised” voters from 2000?
“You do realize that that does not have anything to do with my argument?”
Of it doesn’t.
It would destroy the entire premise of your argument.
“…the name of one of the disenfranchised voters from 2000″???
what about the name of one of the disenfranchised voters from 1800 through 1900?
is that supposed to prove that disenfranchisement does not ever exist whenever citizens who complain about it can’t name one of the disenfranchised voters?
What is the purpose of the challenge? to defend the perfection of America’s voting system – designed to ensure that only the values of capitalist white males get representation – to the exclusion of the values of all others (non-materialistic people, indigenous or non-euro-centric people, environmentalist, etc. basically anyone who doesn’t value personal wealth over the value of human life, a pollution free environment, and the diversity of cultures necessary to sustain a better symbiotic/environmental balance…)…
… the elections are stolen every year (or two or four) – that more than half of Americans don’t vote and more than half of those who do can’t be sure – except by faith – that their vote counted.
if technology can be used to identify faces well enough to have drone planes assassinate… it ought to be possible therefore to use computers in each voting booth to take an electronic picture to be used only for purposes of defeating voter fraud: the voting should have a paper/card trail… the number of pictures taken should match the number of cards punched (rocked scientists could invent a machine that punches holes without leaving chads – since that chore appears too difficult for the geniuses getting well paid for the current voting schemes)
There’s still such a big pool of indoctrinated… that ‘we’ never have to worry about Exxon being on the loosing side of any election… nor do we have to worry about indigenous people being on the winning side…
in fact, a proposal to raise gas prices and profits while lowering costs of doing buisness (salaries[who], pollution control/clean-up[whatt], retirement accounts that aren’t snatched away when it’s time to retire[when]…) is already in the works…
an aside: how many asians;africans;non-white kids does it take to make a super fly outfit these days?…
another aside: supose your whole neighborhood revolts against ‘the system’… and your electrical grid and water supply stops working (and there are no new shipments of food to your grocery stores)…; when election time comes, wouldn’t the blue or purple dye method work better than electronic voting then?
Condi Rice wearing her natural hair for President! That’s the only way to keep the illusion alive… er, i mean hope, er the will of the people?
i can’t think of the name of one disenfranchised voter.. gee
hey, how come Condi’s pic is not on the meet republican single’s list?
sorry, nevermind