Republicans think that because their candidate is black, he can wave magic pixie dust over Marylanders (Republicans think that black people are incapable of making up their minds for themselves and are compelled to vote based on skin color, how insulting) and hide the fact that Steele is just another right-wing Republican far out of touch with the values of Maryland and the future of our state.
Prepare for war.
Oliver
Has it occurred to you that “Republicans think that black people are incapable of making up their minds for themselves and are compelled to vote based on skin color” because Democrats have treated black people that way for decades?
Republicans think that black people are incapable of making up their minds for themselves and are compelled to vote based on skin color, how insulting
Remove “Republicans”, insert “Democrats”; suddenly, “how insulting” becomes “how well it guarantees votes for the Democrats.”
“Prepare for war.”
Yeah, this race could get dirty. I wouldn’t be surprised if one camp illegally obtains a copy of the credit report of one of the candidates. Oh, wait…
As far as your other race-baiting point, nobody is saying every black voter, or even half, or a quarter, of black voters are gonna vote for someone based on them being the same skin color despite ideological differences, but in a close race, there may be enough that do and it COULD make a difference.
I mean, read a history book. do you have any idea how many Catholics there were that couldn’t stand the Kennedy family but voted for him anyway because they wanted to see a Catholic president?
Hell, back in 1987, Wilson Goode got 85% of the vote in the very same overwhelmingly black neighborhood that two years earlier, he dropped a bomb on and then let the fire burn and left an entire block destroyed and all the people homeless. (Granted he was running against Frank Rizzo who wasn’t particularly loved in the black community but still). It should also be noted that the city was going bankrupt at the time and it still didn’t matter.
At this rate, he will have rasied a little over a million dollars by election day.
If he should win, it would be the bargain of the century.
Way to prove my point – there’s no way blacks could independently go for the Democrats, right? We must be dumb, right? You can’t even make heads or tails of what you’re saying.
Even when the GOP did reach out for the black vote, they used the same strategy they used with Southern whites except they substituted gays … playing into cultual/religious homophobia. When all you have to offer is the promise to deny something to someone else, it’s a pretty sad thing … not to mention shameful.
That would make sense if you ignore the long Republican history of marginalizing, ignoring and yes – suppressing the aspirations of black Americans. Democrats don’t make grand gestures at reaching out to black Americans because Democrats largely have the votes of black Americans, you don’t see Republicans making big moves to get the vote of right-wing evangelicals because they already have those votes. Do some Democrats take that for granted? Yes. But you don’t have the wholesale denigration of black people that’s still by and by a large part of GOP politics. You, as usual, talk about Powell and Rice as if George Bush is doing black Americans a favor for appointing them. Deeds, not words. It doesn’t do much for Bush and the Republican’s credibility on race when as they appoint Rice and Powell, they undercut every program and initiative that could help black Americans get a leg up in our society. Deeds, not words.
It’s the same template in Maryland, they pick a black guy who’s a willing stooge, certain that blacks can see no further than skin color, when in fact Steele is part of a system that is out of step with Marylanders of all races.
Black people don’t vote for Republicans because Republican policies are bad for black people. We’re kind of smart that way.
Let’s put it this way: I’ll accept the premise, “The Democrats take black votes for granted.” Explain why they can.
Oliver, does it seem reasonable to you that, amongst any, and all, ethnic group and / or socioeconomic group , and / or gender, and / or race (with the exception of blacks) that Republicans get a sizeable amount of support, but George Bush, who did better amongst blacks in 2004 than he did in 2000, only got 11% of their vote?
I never said it was dumb for blacks to vote for Democrats, but I do believe that Democrats take the black vote for granted. Blacks reciprocate for whatever reason — not because they are dumb — by voting for Democrats, even though, in political terms, little or nothing at the federal government level can be done without the cooperation of the Republicans.
You like to make fun of Republican attempts to “reach out” to blacks, but seldom, if ever, are similar efforts made by Democrats. When posters like myself point that out to you, you say “We want actions, not words.”
The question becomes, “What actions?” What actions take place at the government level without, at least, the cooperation of the Republicans, if not their instigation?
I’m sorry, but I can’t make heads or tails of what you’re saying.
Which President appointed two black Secretaries of State, in a row? Clinton?
By the way, I’m an “equal opportunity critic”. I think everybody who votes for a Democrat is dumb. =:-}
As usual, PSU and Dugger have their eyes on the big picture. See the 2 posts above.
Well, he’s definitely not as “articulate” as Barack Obama and the GOP is too stupid to realize how cheap of an imintation he is. They think blacks will vote for him just because he is black because they assume that, like them, all blacks see is black.
For the record, it’s okay to call Steele a stooge, just make sure you don’t call him articulate.
it bears repeating: the last Republican who did anything for black people was Abraham Lincoln.
sgb just said Obama is articulate!!!
Hey sgb, you’re a racist!! (Even though you put it in quotes.)
I think you guys have driven the whole articulate thing into the ground. We know, you don’t see it as an insult, frankly neither do I, with that being said, if it actually does insult someone, why don’t you let it be?
Are you gonna spend the rest of your lives snickering like little kids everytime someone says articulate now? “Hehe hehehe, he said the A word, I thought it wasn’t supposed to be used”
but…but…but….
sgb,
“Articulate’!!! How could you!!!
Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?
E R Dugger
“Left-wing sheep.” Ouch that hurts.
But really, who’s the bigger idiot — people like me, who read Oliver and think about what he has to say, or people like yourself who consider him an “unserious person” yet apparently lay awake at night thinking of new put-downs for him? (And mostly failing, I might add, since you seem to recycle the old ones so tirelessly)
PSUCKS,
You wanna talk about sheep? All you and your little goat buddies do is spew the same garbage over and over, you never listen to the other sides argument, so how could you take anything seriously? Blindly following what others say cause you can’t think for yourself, I feel bad for you. Let me save you some typing as your response will no doubt contain something about meida bias, loony left, moonbats, “articulate”, “you hate religion”, unpatriotic hippies….
Waste of space..
Teddy Shit-For-Brains,
As I’ve said before, Oliver is a completely unserious person. I mean, HE takes himself seriously, and I’m sure a few of the left-wing sheep that come here take him seriously, but when he posts idiocy like this, it deserves to be ridiculed, and if it can be ridiculed by by bringing up some of his past idiocy, all the better.
Quaker: You raise an interesting point: I can’t explain why the Democrats can take the black vote for granted.
But that’s because I live very near a predominantly poor black neighborhood, which is adjacent to an integregated middle to upper middle class neighborhood. I live in a neighborhood of low income wage earners, which is about 90% Hispanic — mostly Mexican.
Why it is as clear as glass to me that the blacks “on Lincoln Avenue” are getting shafted by Democrats and Republicans alike, but not to the blacks who live there, is beyond me.
Sorry. My bad. I misread your reply.
Like I said, I’ll accept the premise. I challenge any GOPer to explain how it’s possible.
That would appear to be a failure on your part.
Don’t change the question. The charge is to explain why they can.
Sadie
C’mon. Admit it. On this one we’re right. It’s ludicrous and Orwellian to characterize “articulate” as a racial putdown. Oliver at times can be really dumb, but at other times he can be articulate (as written). I’m sorry, but that opinion has all to do with content and nothing to do with race.
Dugger
Um, yeah, those situations are exactly the same….
Annnyway……
Like I was saying, its a unique situation,not cut and dry. It actually takes some thinking out of the box…oh whats the use…nevermind…..
You’re right Michigan, I mean PSU…
The “articulate” question is in my opinion, one of these forest/trees things.
If you look at the tree, ie, the word itself alone and without context, then clearly there is nothing wrong with it. Who doesn’t want to be articulate?
But if you look at the forest, or the way the word has been used in certain contexts over the years, then it is offensive. We’ve been through this one already so there’s no need to cover that ground again.
What I fall back on is, if I am trying to treat someone respectfully, I am not going to use words they don’t like. It doesn’t matter what those words are, it doesn’t matter what those words mean to me. If I know someone doesn’t like a word, and I like that person, that’s all I need to know.
Now if I dislike them it’s another story …….
“(kind of like, wow, he is suprisingly articulate)”
So, when i was playing flanker in college and a black DB said i had good speed, did he mean good speed compared to other flankers, or good speed for a white guy?
I always took it as a compliment, but now i’m not so sure.
Let me chime in on that one Dugger (not like anyone needs my opinion, but what the hell). In my honest opinion, you both have a very valid argument. On one side, calling someone articulate is generally a good thing, I wold be flattered if called that. It does imply an ablitiy to speak well. So in that respect, it’s a positive thing to call someone.
I can see, however, a scenario where maybe it might imply otherwise. In that I mean it might imply that someone is articulate, when they shouldn’t be. (kind of like, wow, he is suprisingly articulate) Well that implys that one wouldn’t expect a black man to be so well spoken. So someone could tkae it that way and whether or not that was the intention, thats how it comes across.
teddy,
My objection is to the hijacking of the language. To put the use of of a perfectly good word off limits because of its potential, contextual use as a negative. There are not many words that you or I could not devise a contextual use of which would be offensive to somebody or some group. I’d say, decry the context if you must, not the word.
Dugger
“You’re right Michigan, I mean PSU”.
How do you know it means Penn State? It could mean Plymouth State, or Portland State, or Portmouth State. Besides, I’m not the one that decided to kick the ball to one of the best KR’s in the country instead of squibbing it. That’s on Joe.
Anyhoo, getting back to the original point of the post since it has now been hijacked by the whole “articulate” thing (oh wait, I did that).
The reason this post is stupid is because nobody is saying all black people are gonna vote for someone black just because they’re black. But, as i said, some will and do and in a close race, it could make a difference.
Now, let me give you some anecdotal evidence, which is obviously worthless, but considering that i don’t give a fuck if anyone believes it or not, I’ll give it anyway.
The night of the Eagles/Falcons Monday night game, I was at the Linc (Lincoln Financial Field) for what was originally supposed to be a fundraiser for a guy that’s probably gonna run for Mayor of Philly (He’s a Democrat no less). It turned out to be a rundraiser for Katrina vicitms since the guy felt uncomfortable raising funds for his campaign in light of what happened.
Regardless, i was knocking a few back with a friend who happens to be very well connected in Philly and PA Democratic politics and we started talking about next years PA governors race. now, there’s actually a chance that Rendell’s opponent is gonna Lynn Swann, the HOF receiver that used to play for the Steelers.
while my friend said that he’s not concerned that Swann has a shot to beat Rendell (I agree) he said that one scenario being floated is that Swann might lose to Rendell, but then run for the Senate in 2010 if Specter retires.
NOW, what he also said was that one name that’s being floated, and this is all way down the road so it’s just mental masturbation at this point, to run against Swann if this 2010 scenario plays out is Sixers GM Billy King. He was a poli sci major at Duke and has expressed interest in running for office.
What was one of the reasons he gave? That they wouldn’t have to worry about Swann cutting into the black vote if King were running. It’s not racist to consider it, it’s just a fact. He didn’t say they HAVE to run somebody black against Swann, but the first reason he gave for why King would make a good candidate is because he negates Swann cutting into the black vote.
My problem withe whole “articulate” thing is that I’ve always thought of “black and articulate” as the rule, not the exception. So it is beyond me how that word could be offensive.
Do you know the only time I feel “white liberal guilt” in relation to blacks? It’s when I meet a black guy who is obviously intelligent and articulate who has a criminal record due to drug – related crime (possession with intent to sell, burglary, B & E), and I know that the rest of his life is probably going to be tainted by that record, even though he’s a sharp guy. There are ex – con rehab programs, but they are packed and hard to get into. And I think, “Somebody should have recognized his talent and ability right off the bat, before they threw him a lifetime nutshot like a felony record.”
Anyhow, I don’t get this whole “articulate” think
I’m not denying that there have been times when “articulate” meant “speaks well for a black person”.
it’s just that the example you used was so spectacularly bad it deserved ridicule.
Yeah guys, I simply made up the idea that “articulate” has been used as a way to denigrate prominent blacks. It’s all in my head.
Asking the answer to why the black vote is obliged to be democratic is a little easier than the question of why the lower/middle class votes republican when it is so clearly against their best interests.
Frank_D: “I can t explain why the Democrats can take the black vote for granted.”
Since you are being deliberately dense, let me help you out. Democrats support policies that either help black people (and other minorities) or at the very least don’t make things any worse than they currently are. They have a history of doing this over several decades.
The Republicans have a history of promising the moon in the election campaign and then being curiously absent afterwards. Ask the evangelicals. They fell for “Bob is a good Christian. Vote for Bob”, and ended up with squat to show for it.
Quaker: That would appear to be a failure on your part.
You’re going to have to explain that one.
Rhys: Why would I be “deliberately dense”? And, if I were, what good would your explanation do?
But, as I said, they don’t support these policies in spite of Republican opposition. Otherwise, whenever they were in the minority, they would be powerless to help any minority. But, then minorities would feel obligated to vote for the majority. But that never happens, does it?
And, to that, you’re going to add that the evangelicals “got screwed” when lefties have been whining and moaning that Dobson and Robertson were the “powers behind the throne” since 2000.
I think you’ve created two false histories here: 1) Where the Democrats — in an alternate dimension — were so helpful to blacks that they are eternally grateful to them even when they only “don t make things any worse than they currently are.” (All the while, liberals complain that things are getting worse and worse — and, if Republicans are doing nothing, then.. But I digress). And, 2) A place where the Evangelicals got screwed by George W. Bush, when it wasn’t he that has been incalcitrant about abortion; it wasn’t he that has been obstinately opposed to faith – based initiatives and school vouchers. Guess who that was?
Meanwhile, back on our world, Democrats get credit for the things they do that require Republican cooperation; the Democrats get credit for programs that don’t work; and the Republicans get accused of ‘cutting’ spending, when they are only asking that increases be curtailed
I say the Democrats are lying to the black community, and getting away with it.
Because the blacks are too dumb, right Frank?
So, when i was playing flanker in college
Hahhahahhhahahhahhahha.
Whew.
Those frat house flag football games are a bear, huh?
Look, our Repug Racists here fully understand why “articulate” can be a racial ploy. It’s like when a realtor shows you homes in the “good neighborhood.”
You’re chasing your tail, Oliver…
Do you think blacks are dumb?
Or do you really think that the Democrats have done so much, on their own, with no help from Republicans, that blacks chould shower them with votes so they can continue on the path chosen for them by Democrats?
Do you think that blacks have it so good in this country — because of Democrats — that they should go out and vote for them in such huge numbers?
Do you honestly think that?
I sure don’t.
And Frank, are you ever going to answer Quaker’s challenge or are you going to keep pretending it was never issued? Keep trying to change the subject and hope everyone forgets you have been faced?
I haven’t forgotten.
Is it OK to say Barak Osama Obama Bin Osama is articulate “for a Democrat”?
“Yeah guys, I simply made up the idea that articulate has been used as a way to denigrate prominent blacks. It s all in my head.”
We all know you are just crazy like that, Oliver.
And dugger, if we can lay aside the right-wing victim complex for one minute, no one is “high-jacking language” or “putting words off limits” here. This is just Communication Skills 101.
There are words you guys don’t like to be called, and when I want to be on your good side I don’t use them. When I do choose to use language you hate, it’s because I want to piss you off on purpose and we all know that.
It’s only natural the process works both ways. When you use words we hate, we assume you are trying to be annoying.
Sadie, Frank did answer. It’s “beyond him,” he says.
Oh, I’ve been away. I see Frank has decided to ask about this:
Well, you observed that it’s “clear as glass” to you that black voters are shafted by both major parties. You further observe that this observation is not shared by black voters themselves. Finally, you note that the reason for this discrepancy in observations is beyond you.
Either your observation is faulty or the observation of black voters is faulty. The numbers make it likely that the failure is yours.
Yes?
Has life been a bed of roses for black Americans? Nope. Are we at nirvana? Nope. But have black Americans prospered, have black Americans been at the table, have black Americans been acknowledged as full blown citizens with Democrats at the helm versus how they’re looked upon by Republican presidents ? You bet your ass. Clinton fought for enterprise zones, a decent tax code, and an economic boat that raised all ships. Reagan called us welfare pimps, and Bush left his jackass friend in charge of watching us die in Katrina.
We vote Democratic because the Republican party doesn’t give a shit about black people.
Sadie,
If there are words that have a non offensive dictionary meaning that are offensive to me, my family, my state etc, its up to us to overcome that backwardness and overwrought sensitivity rather than the population at large.
Dugger
Clinton fought for enterprise zones (Republican Jack Kemp’s idea), a decent tax code (you mean like “let’s simplify the IRC” [a Republican idea], “let’s reduce the tax rates” [a Republican idea], or maybe a “flat tax” [a Republican idea]), and an economic boat that raised all ships (which never materialized, because it was mostly rhetoric, or “words, not deeds”, as you like to say.)
Reagan called us welfare pimps (actually, it was welfare queens, which was actually a vulgar way to express the idea of multigenerational welfare, an idea originally promulgated by a Democrat and “Bush left his jackass friend in charge of watching us die in Katrina.” No, actually the black Mayor and the black Police Commisioner were responsible for that.
You vote Democratic because you have been deceived by Democrats into believing that “the Republican party doesn t give a shit about black people.”
Suit yourself, dugger, only don’t take offense when fightin words get you into a fight. Because that would be clear evidence of an overwrought sensitivity.
Sadie,
Again. The ‘word’ is not guilty. It has a harmless, complimentary meaning. Why should political correctness decide blacks can’t be articulate? Or are you saying they can be articualte, we can recognize that they are articulate, but we just can’t say it. Now that would really be Orwellian.
See, I think such idiocy winds up trivializing other problems. In other words, some could ask: ‘Lets see. Among your problems are poverty, racism and being called articulate.’
Dugger
I don’t put a lot of stock in the “dems take blacks for granted” argument. That’s not to say that the Democratic Party is perfectly responsive to the black community but let’s face it, it’s a minority population (as we all will be in the not too distant future.)
Where I live, blacks are very well represented in the Democratic Party
apparatus and among elected officials. Moreover anyone who has the slightest feel for the history of the parties with respect to race relations over the past 50 years and the voting records of current legislators will recognize that Democrats have been consistently more sympathetic and supportive of the black community than the Republicans.
Michael Steele is a bright, charismatic (and, yes, articulate) guy but he’s a Republican toady with no street cred. Both of the Democratic contenders
have extensive credibility on the issues. Either of them will wipe Steele (but that’s ok–he can always run again in Illinois.)
BroD Says: Democrats have been consistently more sympathetic and supportive of the black community than the Republicans.
“Sympathetc and supportive” doesn’t bring home the bacon. What have the much – touted anti – poverty programs done for poverty? Very little.
If there has been so little progress in the “War on Poverty” that liberals can say, with a straight face, “Katrina has shown us that we have not been paying attention to poverty” (which, in my mind, is like saying, “We haven’t done enough about poverty — after all these years and billions of dollars — in other words, we have failed), and John Edwards can launch his anti – poverty road show, then even the Democrats haven’t anything to brag about in the anti – poverty department.
Finally, when Republicans attempt to be “sympathetic and supportive”, i.e., by attempting to “reach out” to the Afro – American community, they are mocked by people like Oliver, and told it’s a waste of time.
Are being “support and sympathy” only valued when coming from Democrats?
Frank_D: “the Democrats haven t anything to brag about in the anti – poverty department.”
(?!)
There has been so little progress in the War on Poverty that liberals can say, with a straight face, Katrina has shown us that we have not been paying attention to poverty .
In my mind, that like saying, We haven t done enough about poverty after all these years and billions of dollars.”
“In other words, we – government – have failed.
John Edwards can launch his anti – poverty road show, 40 years after the beginning of the “Great Society”.
Seems like, even the Democrats haven t anything to brag about in the anti – poverty department.
Clearer? BroD
Yes, Frank–clearly nonsense.
Thank you, BroD, for that incisive analysis of my post. You have changed my mind.