The Republican Party loves black people*
* …who allow them to trade bigotry for votes, demonize them to win over racists, and pass laws making their lives tougher
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10 Out Of 10 Ken Mehlmans Agree:
October 11th, 2005
34 Comments
The Republicans. As Dean and others have said: Deeds, not words. The GOP continues to be the party that welcomes hate, and until that day its morality will always be lacking.
This kind of post is a picture perfect example of why it is no longer possible to have any type of rational discussion about race.
Notable comment (ignored by you, Oliver):
[ The message '... of hope and opportunity. ] ” … caught the attention of Dawn Poindexter, 43, a Democrat from Hamden, Conn.
I like their views, but I m really used to familiarity, she said. I like the real basis of his message, the unification piece, coming together for a common interest.
Dean’s reaction: I m shocked that he would have the nerve to show his face in front of any African-American organization after the way they treated those people in New Orleans, Dean told the Hartford Courant.
Who’s the bigot?
>>picture perfect example of why it is no longer possible to have any type of rational discussion about race.
I find almost without fail, that whenver someone says this, it’s usually someone that’s white.
Ya…let’s get more white people to sit around a table and talk about the “black experience.”
Conservatives won’t even admit to the most basic precept that a level playing field does not exist in the United States of America. Honest discussion? With who? Ourselves? One giant circle jerk to make us liberals feel warm and fuzzy?
Here’s how it works:
Mr. Blue State: We think that blacks get a raw deal in the U.S.
Mr. Red State: Blacks have the same opportunities that everyone else does in this country.
Mr. Blue State: That’s not true. All the economic/demographic indicators tell us blacks do not have equal access to education, health care, the justice system,etc.
Mr. Red State: Blacks have the same opportunities that everyone else does. I earned my way in life.
Mr. Blue State: Yes, but you’re white. By virtue of your skin color, you have a head start in the race.
Mr. Red State: You’re a racist because you don’t think blacks are smart enough to pull themselves out of poverty. BOOTSRAPS!
It all comes back to the “bootstrap” argument when you talk race with a conservative.
Frankly, I’d rather have teeth pulled at high velocity.
JK
A conservative freind of mine sent me an e-mail detailing “redneck” virtues as a means of idealising conservatism, and I could not help but notice that Republicans cannot and I am afraid will not work with black voters or people who think outside of thier agenda. JK put it brilliantly, their only argument is to label success by pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. Part of the problem is the more wealthy conservatives cannot and never will understand people of New Orleans because their goals are in sinc with those of the middle class and absolutley not with the poor and those in poverty. I don’t know about you east coast and west coast people, but blacks and conservatives are like sandpaper and apples here in the South. Go to a Southern college nearby and ask some Republicans what they think about blacks, I bet you hear some of the most disgusting comments in your life.
As Dave Chappelle says: “The racism in the South is mmmmwwaa!! (kiss/smacking sound)
I hate to inject moderation into such a polarized commentary, but I find the position that people were stranded in New Orleans because they were black to be flawed and reactionary.
Allow me to get the obligatory: “I’m not a Republican or a fan of the Republicans” out of the way. Furthermore, I’m white, female, and currently reside in the South (not exactly my first or even ninth preference, but in this economy I go where they’ll employ me). Having said all of that, feel free to use any of the above as a reason to disregard the following:
Fact: In New Orleans, the poor were victimized twice–once by the natural disaster, and again by the Federal SNAFU that passed for a response to their plight. I think we can all agree on that much.
Fact: The majority of the poor in New Orleans, as elsewhere in America, were ethnic minorities. I’ve not seen real numbers, but I’d certainly put my money on the assumption that the majority of those minorities were black.
To say, “The federal government is Republican. The federal government failed to respond to the flood-stranded poor of New Orleans. The poor of New Orleans are black. Therefore, Republicans are racists” is just textbook logical fallacy.
Yes, the response of our government to the Katrina disaster was a disgrace of mismanagement; misdirected funds, equipment, and manpower (where are the vast majority of our National Guard?). It demonstrated an entirely inhuman lack of feeling for our nation’s poor, regardless of their race. There was, I submit, no great rush to save the handful of stranded latino, caucasian, and else-ethnic castaways interspersed with New Orleans’ black poor.
Katrina tore away more than the levees and bulwarks of the Louisianna coast–it exposed the indefensibly skewed priorities of our government and the tragically erroded conscience of our nation.
The black are poor. The poor are black. And white. And red. And insert-skin-colour-here. But the suffering and loss of life in New Orleans was not a race issue–it was a policy issue, it was a class issue, and ultimately, a moral issue.
Now, is the fact that ethnic minorities comprise the majority of our poor a race issue? Resounding yes. Is prejudice and fear a part of our culture, our daily mindset, our politics, pulpits, and playgrounds? Hell yes. Are innocent people sentenced to death on a shoestring of circumstantial evidence based on race; others condemned to commit desperate acts by a society that accepts grinding poverty, drugs, and violence as unavoidable or Not-My-Problem? God forgive us all, yes.
My point? There is enough real racism and evil out there without using Katrina as the sticking point simply because the scope of the disaster has, for the moment, our nation’s infamously fickle attention.
Howard Dean–anyone–who is educated and intelligent enough to know otherwise, yet uses–USES–the suffering and death caused by Katrina so they can get a snark in on the Other Guy, should be ashamed.
On the other hand, Mehlman’s calling up the ghost of Lincoln to make headway with black voters betrays just how weak the Republicans feel they are with minority constituants–”Okay, yeah, I know we’ve been screwing you over for more than 200 years, but remember that one time back in 1863?”
Sad.
All around, a poor show.
Wysdom
Nice response, JK.
Folks like JD don’t think. They believe everybody has the same chance from birth. That simply is false.
Probably the biggest advantage one can have in life is to be raised in an environment where one was safe and didn’t have to worry about where the next meal was coming from. An environment where one could be reasonably sure there would be a home with power and heat–where healthcare means seeing a family doctor not an emergency room.
Essentially, being economically sound.
In the not so distant past, it was nearly impossible for minority groups to go beyond economic disadvantage. Not because they didn’t work hard but because they were barred access. And, let’s face it–to be a white man in the 1940s and 50s (and 60s) meant you had only to compete against other white men–that’s an advantage.
If you’re lucky enough to trace your genealogy–you’ll probably see that your ancestors may have led pretty humble lives and that each following generation did somewhat better. That’s because there was nothing preventing each generation from doing so; if they wanted to attend a certain college or enter a certain profession–they could. Now, imagine what it might have been if your ancestors were prohibited from attending certain schools or holding certain jobs or not allowed to advance beyond a certain point in a career.
Over 2/3 of the LA and MS guard are in the US.
This is not a fact. Twice as many white people live below the poverty line than black people.
Gotta love JK’s moronic red state/blue state thing.
My brother was up in Beantown when the Yankees were playing. He said the people were cool, but he also said he heard the words “nigger” and “spook” more than he could count coming from those enlightened blue staters.
JK. Still the self hating white man. African-Americans around the country JK thank you for your self loathing.
jadegold has proceeded to read my mind, albeit incorrectly.
Wysdom: the fact that ethnic minorities comprise the majority of our poor
JWG: This is not a fact. Twice as many white people live below the poverty line than black people.
It might surprise you to learn, JWG, that blacks are not the only ethnic minority in our nation (please note my word choice above).
From the U.S. Census Bureau (numbers are, of course, approximate due to rounding by the Bureau)
White (non-hispanic): 15,902,000
Black: 8,781,000
Asian: 1,401,000
Hispanic: 9,051,000
Total non-white (read “ethnic minority”): 19,233,000
So… tell me again, JWG, how there are twice as many whites living in poverty?
P.S. Not to ignore your factoid about the National Guardsmen… even if your numbers were accurate, LA and MS sure as heck could have used every last man, woman, and helicopter recently. The National Guard belongs at home–guarding the nation.
>>My brother was up in Beantown when the Yankees were playing. He said the people were cool, but he also said he heard the words nigger and spook more than he could count coming from those enlightened blue staters.
Great anecdotal evidence Jay. Your brother was probably in the bleachers with a bunch of drunks, or at a bar with a bunch of drunks. We do have drunks up here.
>>JK. Still the self hating white man. African-Americans around the country JK thank you for your self loathing.
You want to take it to this kind of personal level Jay? You sure about this? You’ve got some dusty old skeletons in your internet past, son. My suggestion to you, is that you not mess with the one guy who knows about it.
As far as the loathing part….I’m a proud American, of Irish/Italian heritage. I don’t hate myself because I’m white. So I’m not quite sure where you’re coming from. On a personal and professional level, things are going fairly well. So, frankly…your comment lacks comprehension.
JK
Boston’s a pretty racist town, that scene is much less likely in other places in the northeast — blue state world. It’s a lot more likely in the red state south, however – you know, the folks who think nothing’s wrong with flying dixie for their cultural “heritage”.
Wysdom,
You get an A+ in my book. However, Bill Clinton allowed over 500,000 Rwandans to be needlessly slaughtered in a massive genocide he knew was brewing and he lifted not one finger to stop. He also dropped the ball on providing generic AIDS medications to the hardest hit sub Saharan African countries. Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rice, Rumsfeld and Powell are not blameless either for their lapses that have caused millions of lives to be sacrificed and democratic governments to be overthrown (Haiti), but let us not forget the feckless political expedience that caused an atrocity like Rwanda to occur without interference while our military forces were finally deployed to Bosnia to stop the same thing from occurring to white people.
The original post was about Republicans and black people. Additionally, New Orleans is racially 95% black and white combined. Hispanics made up less than 3%.
However, you are correct that if you add the Hispanic poor to the African-American poor across the country, then there are no longer twice as many “white” poor as everyone else. But why do we primarily associate “poor” with ethnic minorities? And why do we forget that the overwhelming majority of ethnic minorities are not poor?
Additionally, why do you think the Hispanic number is even higher than the number for African-Americans? I’ll give you a hint…it starts with an “i”.
(Immigrants from Latin countries don’t usually start off with much money.)
One more thing on Jay’s “Self-Hating White Man” comment. I’ve heard the term used a few times in the past, and never really lent much thought, or weight to it. It’s just so much psychobabble.
Out of curiousity, however…..I just now did a Google on “Self-Hating White Man.” What’s the CURRENT thinking on this “Self-Hating White Man.” Inquiring minds want to know.
What was the first hit in my Google search? A rant about Michael Moore on the official website of one David Duke.
One again, Jay Caruso finds himself in great company.
Old habits die hard, my friend.
JK
I heard many more racist comments during the 5 years I lived in Chicago than I have ever heard anywhere while living in the south. Maybe southerners are more polite and hide their racism among other whites?
There are approximately 12,000 LA Guard personnel with about 8,000 still in LA. The LA governor called up about half of that (3,500) to assist after the hurricane. Obviously, the governor disagreed with you.
The Guard has a dual purpose…your opinion is that it should have only one purpose…so change the law.
I find it bizarre that there are 40 million poor in your country, over 10%, and that’s just the way it is. Successful capitalism depends on this under-class to encourage the others.
Have you considered why most of America’s poor are indeed poor? Single parenthood. I’m not sure why this is the fault of capitalism.
Ah yes, the same Howard Dean that had absolutely no blacks in any important positions on his primary campaign until Al Sharpton shamed him into hiring a few (I’ll give him a pass on the fact that he had no blacks working for him in Vermont because that’s not exactly a hotspot for young, black talent).
This is also the same Howard Dean that thinks only black people do menial hotel jobs, making him the Vicente Fox of American politics.
And really, Oliver, your whole thing about Boston being a racist town but not the rest of these liberal, northeastern bastions, you must live in a pretty small world.
Philly’s in the Northeast and this city is racist as hell too. You think all those white union members who vote Democratic because their union boss tells them to would like it if you walked into the bar they hang in?
And of course, racism is a two-way street here, as indicated by the fact that our mayor, Mr John “THE BROTHERS AND SISTERS ARE RUNNING THIS CITY, THE BROTHERS AND SISTERS ARE IN CHARGE” Street paid no political price whatsoever for that stupid comment. In fact, the group he made it in front of cheered emphatically cheered him for making it.
And, you also have a North Philly “Community Group” fighting a condo development in Brewerytown because, God forbid, some white people might buy those condos and as the leader of the group said “THIS IS A BLACK COMMUNITY”.
I mean, hell, I understand the concerns of many about gentrification and whatnot, and property taxes skyrocketing, but that doesn’t seem to be a big concern for this guy and his group. He’s just worried that some crackers might move in.
Brilliant, JK. You rip Jay for anecdotal evidence and then counter that with anecdotal evidence of your own.
Oliver bloats>>Boston s a pretty racist town
This kind of talk drives me batty. Boston had a bad, deserved reputation in the 60’s and 70’s because we did have serious race issues–busing, namely. South Boston, in particular, was not at all a friendly place for blacks and other minorities in those days.
But…uh…Oliver. That was 30 years ago? Minorty population is increasing rapidly in Boston, and while we don’t see as much minority participation in local government as we’d like, the environment is much, much improved from the days when young black children were stoned by the rednecks who lived in Southie.
I never lived in Boston, but worked in the city for almost a decade, and spent a *lot* of my social time in the city (translation…in bars…guilty). I honestly can’t recall a single “racial” event such as the one Jay’s brother was a witness to. Perhaps it’s the social “circle” I hang out with, or the kind of places we were attracted to….but many of those places that I hung out in Boston, Allston, Brighton and Cambridge you would NOT take your Mother to.
Jay’s trying to paint this picture that Boston is currently full of these kind of goons. It’s just not true.
And your broad brush Oliver, isn’t helping Boston shed that label either. Are there still pockets of racism in the city? Sure. But 1.) Things are much better than they were 2.) Those kinds of attitudes aren’t at all representative of the vast majority of the people of Boston, and MOST certainly, the state of Massachusetts or New England in general.
JK
PSU94:
I’ll give you that. I wouldn’t say Sharpton shamed him into it, but certainly he needed a more diverse primary staff.
I don’t remember him ever saying that. He never said only blacks do menial hotel jobs. What he said was that the only blacks who would be at a Republican fund-raising dinner would be the waitstaff, which is pretty true.
JWG:
Are you really that much of a dumbass, or do you just like to look like one? Yes, of course, single parenthood is the only reason why there’s so many poor in America. That really explains everything, doesn’t it? Except, most of the poor families I knew growing up (and I knew a lot, because mine was one of them) were two-parent households. That was in the late 80s through the late 90s, when I got out of there (thanks to government-funded Pell grants and state grants).
Single parenthood should not be a reason for poverty in America. Many families were raised comfortably in single-income homes. My parents were. Problem is, that can’t be done anymore. Whose fault is that? Who knows. But to blame it all on that is just asshattery.
Did I claim ALL poverty was due to single-parent families? Who’s the “dumbass” who can’t read for comprehension?
Additionally, are you trying to argue that single motherhood is not a major risk factor for poverty? YES or NO? If your answer is no (which is the correct answer), then why are you calling me a dumbass?
Of course there are other factors…the comment I was addressing linked poverty to capitalism. So I would like to know how single parenthood is related to capitalism, since the majority of those in poverty are in single parent homes.
>>Brilliant, JK. You rip Jay for anecdotal evidence and then counter that with anecdotal evidence of your own.
I didn’t rip Jay for providing anecdotal evidence–I don’t necesssarilly think that one should casually dismiss anecdotal evidence if it has some weight, credibility and validity behind it. People should share their experiences, after all. Particularly if they are valuable. (Please keep in mind, nitwit, that I’ve got a much larger “data set” of anecdotal evidence with which to make my point, being an actual resident of the State in question. )
I have noticed, however, that it is most often conservatives that like to point out specific, simplistic instances to prove or disprove complex arguments when it comes to race, specifically. For example…they point to Colin Powell, or Condi Rice, or Michael Jordan as examples of success in the African-American community. While it’s true that they are admired, accomplished people and great Americans in the eyes of many, you simply can’t make the argument that everyone else in their racial group can sucessfully follow the same path. It discounts so many variables such as the quality of parenting, access to affordable health care, proper nutrition, relationships with teachers, community, pressure from peers, family income and so on. You probably like to call them excuses. I call it reality.
I personally think that if kids are taught to be responsible people by their parents, or guardians, that’s half the battle. There are a lot of lousy parents out there, regardless of race.
However, if you happen to reside in a community that doesn’t present viable options to children, it’s not suprising that many of them look at the world and think that there’s nothing out there for them, so why bother? If you give them a chance to give a shit about the world and see their part in it, then you’ve gone a long way towards making them decent people that have something to offer.
JK
I have noticed, however, that it is most often conservatives that like to point out specific, simplistic instances to prove or disprove complex arguments when it comes to race, specifically.
Right, and you breaking it down to either blue states or red states is one of those supposed complex arguments? Give me a break. Your example was absurd on its face because of the implication that those who reside in those blue states are the ones who have the most insight into arguments about race. When one considers the legions of racists that can be found in the northeast, it’s ridiculous to break it down to blue states and red states.
So many people such as yourself are under this delusion that everybody who votes for a Democrat is a wonderful little liberal that loves all and hates none. I got news for you pal. There’s a lot of people who pull the levers for Democrats because of the whole “working people vs the rich” issue, but are vile racists as well. Wake up and smell the coffee.
You want to take it to this kind of personal level Jay? You sure about this? You ve got some dusty old skeletons in your internet past, son. My suggestion to you, is that you not mess with the one guy who knows about it.
Bring it on. I’ve got NOTHING to hide.
As far as the loathing part& .I m a proud American, of Irish/Italian heritage. I don t hate myself because I m white. So I m not quite sure where you re coming from. On a personal and professional level, things are going fairly well. So, frankly& your comment lacks comprehension.
Nobody’s saying you hate yourself because you’re white. Rather, you take the view that your success comes at the expense of a minority in this country – because you’re white.
Your language JK, drips with pity and condescension. “Oh those poor black folks. They just can’t get ahead. And I’m partly to blame because I’m caucasian. I automatically got a step up.” Every single day there are people coming from poor minority neighborhoods and being successful. The language you use, suggests it’s nothing more than dumb luck when it does happen.
I invite you to visit the south. Visit some of the areas where poor white kids grow up. Kids that have to deal with broken homes, drugs, the lack of discipline. The lack of healthcare. Go an tell those kids not to worry because they have a leg up. After all, they’re white! Maybe then you’ll realize that so many of these problems you talk about have more to do with class than race.
To return to the original point, does anyone have any idea how the Republican Party might appeal to the Afro – American community (besides, of course, sizeable payments to the Reverends Jackson and / or Sharpton)?
Jay…the “blue” state “red” state thing was a rhetorical device that I will not apologize for. It was my way of writing to grab the reader’s attention. It appears that it worked. (Hey..I need all the help I can get. I can’t write like OW, or Bill Safire.)
But I’m not going to lie to you…I think liberals in general are light years ahead of conservatives in understanding the problems we’re facing with regard to race, poverty, health care, and so on. Light years.
So, yes, Jay, us liberals, who happen to live mostly in blue states, do have more “insight” into these issues. We do consistently demonstrate more empathy. It’s real. It’s been that way since I’ve been alive and I don’t see it changing any time soon.
Empathy takes you only so far, however. The problem with liberals these days is that they’re not providing any solutions that don’t somehow return to the notion that big government is primarily the answer.
Jay, could you do me a huge favor? When you put something in quotes, could you please clarify the source of the quotes? Based on what you posted above, I could probably find a competent lawyer and sue your ass because in this particular thread, the following words did not come from me:
Your language JK, drips with pity and condescension. Oh those poor black folks. They just can t get ahead. And I m partly to blame because I m caucasian. I automatically got a step up.
This thread is *about* race, specifically, and not class. So, that is why I am talking about race, although I know that they are closely related. Once again, you as a conservative prove my point that conservatives are numb to race. I will summarize my point below:
by virtue of the color of one’s skin, people are treated differently. People make judements based on the pigmentation of a persons skin. THAT is reality. Conservatives are LOATHE to accept that notiion.
As far as the personal stuff…no big deal. I understand now that you were making social commentary.
JK
FYI, I was living in the Boston area just within the last 3 years. I can’t speak of how it was or what it wants to be, I’m talking about what it is – especially compared to other places I’ve lived.
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