National Review propagandist in residence Rich Lowry, from May:
Host Tim Russert asked him about his recent comment that Tom DeLay should go to jail. Dean stood by it. DeLay s crimes are so notorious that Dean had to bring a list of them on set to remind himself of what they supposedly are. He couldn t correctly pronounce the name of the lobbyist, Jack Abramoff, at the center of the corruption that so outrages him. Of course, DeLay hasn t been plausibly accused of any crimes, let alone indicted for one, and his offenses are alleged violations of House rules, which don t carry jail time.
I don t think I m prejudging him, Dean told Russert, then in the same breath: I think there s a reasonable chance that this may end up in jail. He defended the DNC having a mug shot of DeLay on its website, then in the same breath: We re not going to stoop to the kind of divisiveness [of] the Republicans. Later on the program he intoned, hilariously, We ought not to lecture each other about our ethical shortcomings.
Again, Howard Dean was right.
Which is … still true! Read the indictment. There is NO evidence against DeLay.
After what I’ve witnessed over the last 5 years, again - let’s see how it all plays out. It’s too early to be sure his conviction, sentencing and serving is a fait acompli.
We ought not to lecture each other about our ethical shortcomings.
Never a truer thing was said about each party… opposite sides of the same coin. This sort of corruption, etc. has been part and parcel to current political system forever. DeLay and Co. have merely perfected it… and in reveling in their perfection and mastery are making the same stupid mistakes alot of criminals make.
Now… what are we (the people) going to do about it? There’s the rub
Yeah, a grand jury just indicted him, in case you haven’t noticed.
I think the answer is C.
Let’s see…we have an elected Democratic official with a history of failure in going after Republican politicians (see Hutchison, Kay Bailey), who has raised over $100 K for far-left interest groups, now with a sham of an “indictment” against Delay.
Wow, what a surprise we have here.
You are correct lion, but when a political party bills itself as “God’s Own Party” and wraps itself in the flag and “family values”, it is kind of interesting that they fail so blatantly to maintain their standards.
Oliver, it is so clear that you:
A. Didn’t read the indictment
B. Read the indictment and don’t understand it
C. Don’t really care and you’re just trying to make nutjob Dean look good.
I love how conservatives label Liberals and Democrats “nutjobs” when they have the balls to dish back to them what they constantly shovel out. Dean is not a nutjob, he’s the right wings worst nightmare…a Liberal Democrat with balls and the courage to use them and call them on their bullshit. It’s like when you finally punch the schoolyard bully in the nose for punching you every day and taking your lunch money. You hit him back once and he sees his own blood he falls to the ground crying like the pussy he really is calling out for his mommy.
Howard Dean: Prosecutor, Judge and Jury. YEEEEAAAAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!
How about putting it in terms even republicans can understand, if you get indicted, it means the government thinks you may have done something wrong. When you’re crystal clearly innocent, chances are you don’t get indicted. Maybe he goes to jail, maybe he doesn’t but for everyone who posts here who says, he has done nothing wrong…if YOU got indicted, would you worry?
P.S. I love when the right makes fun of Dean for screaming, thats all they have on the guy. He screamed, whoa…hahahahaha.
We on the left have Bush to pick on, and he has, maybe 1,000 different things that make him look like a jack-ass.
Now, neo, I know that some of the loyal opposition likes to call them “god’s own party”, but when has the Republican party called itself that? What family values did Rep. DeLay fail to maintain?
There is a reasonable chance this could end up in jail? What are the possible sentences one could receive, if convicted of this campaign finance transgression?
From Think Progresses assessment of the horribly biased Ronnie Earle: http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/28/truth-ronnie-earle/
1: EARLE HAS PROSECUTED FOUR TIMES AS MANY DEMOCRATS AS REPUBLICANS
2: EARLE PROSECUTED DEMOCRATS AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF STATE GOVERNMENT
3: EARLE AIDES WENT ON TO RUN FOR OFFICE AS REPUBLICANS
4: EARLE HAS REPUTATION AS PRINCIPLED, OVERLY CAUTIOUS
5: HOUSTON CHRONICLE: ALLEGATIONS OF PARTISANSHIP NOT SUPPORTED BY FACTS
All these things are backed by links to articles about Earle well before this fiasco took place. I fail to see the overwhelming evidence of him being a partisan hack when has prosecuted FOUR times as many democrats. If he is a party hack which party is he working for.
Since he has a reputation for caution and a jury decided it was worth indicting DeLay I don’t see this as an open and shut not guilty case.
Doesn’t stop the Republicans from trying to spin it as one though.
If Dean is our worst nightmare, I don’t ever want to wake up!
If Dean is our worst nightmare, I don t ever want to wake up!
Don’t worry, you won’t…you’re a Republican. You’ve been asleep for the past 5 years.
Howard Dean is the “right wings (sic) worst nightmare”? Howard Dean is a wet dream for the right. Please, oh please let it be Dean in ‘08. I would contribute to his primary run.
If DeLay did the crime, I hope he does the time. I can’t stand crooked politicians of ANY ilk.
“mr.curmudgeon Says:
September 29th, 2005 at 12:21 pm
If Dean is our worst nightmare, I don t ever want to wake up!
Don t worry, you won t& you re a Republican. You ve been asleep for the past 5 years.”
Amen to that!!!
Robot, thanks for the links, but we should remember that Earle doesn’t have to defend himself from anything. Tom Delay does. Ronnie Earle is not accused of any crimes. Tom Delay is, having been indicted by a grand jury of his peers.
As usual, the Republican smear machine is directing its outrage on whistleblowers, we’ve seen this before with Richard Clarke, Paul O’Neill, Cindy Sheehan, Joe Wilson, Dan Rather, and everyone else who speaks truth to power.
I refuse to defend Ronnie Earle, because he has done NOTHING that requires defense. He brought a case to the grand jury, and the grand jury returned an indictment. Period.
One day, I hope one day soon, the public will grow tired of the con “boy who cried ‘bias’ act” and reject these venomous attacks.
Robot_nixon, thank you again for reminding us that 4 times as many democrats have been prosecuted by Earle than republicans! Based on your evidence, who maintains the “culture of corruption”?
Geez… let me restate this again for those who missed my initial post
It is it current political system and it’s machinations that feed on and off this “culture of corruption” - both parties are equally guilty of the same crap.
SaveFarris says, with erudition:
Oliver Willis replies, cluelessly:
FIXED:
SaveFarris says, with erudition:
Oliver Willis replies, cluelessly:
Oliver, as is his habit, is making up new rules as he goes along. He s obviously unfamiliar with the Texas Rules of Evidence, which, as is clearly stated in the statute, DO NOT APPLY TO GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS.
So, Oliver, here s a civics lesson you clearly didn t receive. A grand jury indictment does not constitute evidence of any kind.
They may have seen “stuff,” but none of it is evidence until it’s been admitted at trial.
Delay could be guilty of something, for all I know, but a grand jury indictment is not evidence of that.
Wrong, Rainlion, you’re just parroting the typical right-wing equivalency line. The Republican K Street project is unlike anything the Democrats have, or or capable of building. Why? Because they’re completely out of power. Both sides are not even close to being equally guilty here.
Um, most of us didn’t like Roberts but its not like there has been or would have been any major campaign against him. He’s an amiable guy with kooky views but not a mouthbreather. If you were getting the next Bork as Chief Justice you’d have something to crow about, but the chances of that with Roberts appear slim. While you’re crowing, terrorists keep killing Americans and the president is powerless against them because his party is too corrupt.
Is this the same Howard Dean that could not bring himself to say that Osama was guilty, and yet has no qualms about proclaiming DeLay’s guilt from the mountaintop?
The Big Picture = taking massive amounts of money from companies in order to pass legislation they like, regardless of its effects on the middle class and poor.
Well then call Tommy “Ham Sandwich” Delay a ham sandwich, cause his ass got indicted.
You can get a ham sandwich “indicted”. So sayeth a NY Court of Appeals judge.
Dugger
While Oliver and the rest of the Left brag about bagging DeLay, they seem to have casually forgotten that we have a new Chief Justice, who despite overwhelming opposition from the “reality-based community”, garnered 78 votes.
THAT’S why Republicans are winning. We’re more interested in the Big Picture.
Ho hum.
Here’s a summary for the thick-witted:
Farris led off, quoting (partially) Rich Lowry:
The portion in parens is the part Farris chose to leave out.
When Lowry wrote this, his meaning was clear: Howard Dean says DeLay should be in jail, but nobody has even accused him of a crime and as a result of that he hasn’t been indicted. Lowry makes a neat little hierarchy of guilt: accusation, indictment, conviction.
Well, now that’s all changed. Not only has DeLay been “plausibly accused” of criminal conspiracy, a grand jury has now indicted him. In Lowry’s hierarchy of terms, “indictment” would be evidence of a plausible accusation, but not evidence of guilt.
Whatever is or isn’t included in the text of the indictment is irrelevant in Lowry’s earlier defense of DeLay. The way he described it at the time, the indictment follows a “plausible” accusation.
Frankly, RainLion, I just think it’s a waste of time to make excuses on the basis of an alternate universe in which the Democrats control Congress for the past 10 years. Ooh, look at those nasty, corrupt, non-existent counterfactual Dems! If you actually cared about corruption, you would be arguing against it, not making excuses for it.
TomY, you’re saying that the Dems have never done… nor would be capable of doing something similar? As I said, the only diff is that Delay and CO. got it down to a science… albeit one suited to the particular environment at hand… but given enough time, similar pressures/rewards, etc. - the Dems would’ve made the same evolutionary leap. It’s just intelligent design, and natural selection - fancy that.
Gee, you wouldn’t know that by reading … OliverWillis.com.
Hey! Where’s the rest of my comment?
You mean like Dan Rostenkowski, JD? What ever happened to that guy?
Shorter JD: When Democrats are corrupt, I’m against it. When Republicans are corrupt, I’m even MORE against Democratic corruption.
That is one good example, Quaker. He never stepped down, was never pushed aside by his party. Probably the only reason he is no longer in Congress is some political neophyte ran against him and the ballot box got him out of office.
TomY - You fancy yourself, huh? Corruption is wrong, period. Nothing I have said belies that sentiment. You can try to put words into my mouth, and I am sure that Ms. Cleo, Sadie, et al will congratulate you for being so cute, but you have to knowingly misrepresent what I said in order to do so.
TomY : You are correct. Heaven forbid one look back at the multitude of congressional scandals last time the Dems were in charge. Pure as the driven snow, they were.
Uh, JD? Rostenkowski went to prison.
Bullshit, JD. All these trolls giving DeLay a pass on corruption, and you have nothing to say to them just as a coincidence? You chose your side when you entered this thread to troll against Democrats. If you had any integrity, you’d be over at littlegreenfootballs or freerepublic educating your brethren.
So much fun to watch them squirm and wiggle…heh…
It sucks being right, because if we were wrong we would have a better country then we do…now we have money grubbing forked tounged politicos grabbing anything they can…
Throw out all the bums Red and Blue.
Quaker : Correct, but well after he had been beaten at the ballot box.
TomY : Sure, I chose my side. If he is convicted, he should be punished according to the applicable law. How is that so difficult to comprehend ?
The indictment came before the election defeat. Also before the election defeat: he was forced out as chairman of the Ways and Means committee.
Armando from DailyKos read the indictment and he says that he believes that Delay struck a plea bargain with Earle. He says that Delays’s attorney advised him to waive the statute of limitations on criminal conspiracy, which had already expired.
Armando argues that the only reason you waive something like that is because they have a much bigger charge with a stiffer sentence and a longer statute of limitations that they are threatening to throw at you.
Armando believes that Delay will end up pleading no contest to the charges. And then bye bye Delay.