Smells like somebody is covering up a lot of information.
New inquiry may expose events that led to Pat Tillman s death
A Chronicle review of more than 2,000 pages of testimony, as well as interviews with Pat Tillman s family members and soldiers who served with him, found contradictions, inaccuracies and what appears to be the military s attempt at self-protection.
For example, the documents contain testimony of the first investigating officer alleging that Army officials allowed witnesses to change key details in their sworn statements so his finding that certain soldiers committed gross negligence could be softened.
Interviews also show a side of Pat Tillman not widely known a fiercely independent thinker who enlisted, fought and died in service to his country yet was critical of President Bush and opposed the war in Iraq, where he served a tour of duty. He was an avid reader whose interests ranged from history books on World War II and Winston Churchill to works of leftist Noam Chomsky, a favorite author.
I think the major new information is the extent to which officers covered up the incident and their own culpability.
Also interesting that his journals all just miraculously disappeared after his death.
Do you think Ted Rall would have still called Tillman an idiot who lusted to kill “Arabs” if he knew about Tillman’s book collection? Does Tillman’s personal views somehow change one’s perceptions of his actions?
It seems the only thing new is what Tillman’s actual attitudes were. A regular Chomsky reader? As Andrew Sullivan says, Mary Tillman (Pat’s mother) is a much more compelling voice againt the Iraq war than Cindy Sheehan.
He served his country honorably no matter what his personal political views about Iraq turn out to be.
Additionally, the news that he was killed by American forces is not new. Many news agencies have reported the general details of the actions on April 22, 2004. An Army investigation ruled the death “fratricide” within a few days of his death. The family found out a few weeks after that (over one year ago). Various soldiers received different levels of punishment, though some argue the punishments weren’t harsh enough.
I wonder what “new” information you think is being reported?
There’s really no place to go with this. Is their fog of war? Yep. Do mistakes happen? Yep. Is death by friendly fire common? Yep. Did the Army maybe try to make Tillman’s death more heroic than it really was by, at least on one count, minimizing the maybe incorrect reactions of other hero soldiers under extreme pressure? None of us know, but so what? Tillman up his life for his country. Tillman was a hero. His book collection, political thoughts don’t change that a bit.
So in addition to JWGs point about Rall, I wonder if leftists like Rene Gonzalez or the Portland Indymedia crown have changed their thoughts re Tillman?
Dugger, “swept with confused alarums, of struggle and flight, where ignorant armies clash by night” (MA)
No?
Let’s imagine that Mr. Tillman survived, came home, and started speaking out against the Iraq adventure and Mr. Bush. And quoting Chomsky.
Wouldn’t change the way anyone feels about him, right?
“Let s imagine that Mr. Tillman survived, came home, and started speaking out against the Iraq adventure and Mr. Bush. And quoting Chomsky.
Wouldn t change the way anyone feels about him, right”?
Anyone? Who knows. It might, might not. Specifically: quoting a radical – no; acting on the radicals writings/teachings – probably yes; negotiating with the Iraqi insurgents/terrorists while his fellow fighting men are in danger from same said group – absolutely.
Dugger
Dugger and JWG miss the point. While this is nothing new, the fact is they’re deliberately missing it.
The fact is Tillman was used by this administration to support a cause Tillman didn’t agree with. What’s worse is the circumstances of Tillman’s death were deliberately misrepresented and lied about to keep a cynical p.r. campaign going. And to compound the wrong, there appears to be a coverup underway to mask the lies.
You forgot: “speaking out against the Iraq adventure and Mr. Bush. We both know that would earn even the sainted Mr. Tillman a relentless Swift Boating.
Jadegold,
I think that JWG already countered your point. The information relating to Tillman’s death has been available for months, possibly a year or more. Actually, the reports stated that it was Tillman’s company who initiated the lying; an Army investigation into their suspicious stories was what confirmed the truth. Also, it is not uncommon for the military to withhold results of such an investigation from a grieving family. What purpose would an early release of such information serve?
…
What most people see when they look at the “anti-war” movement (except, that is, for the “anti-war” people themselves) is a loosely-knit collection of losers supporting every kooky hard-left theory and political movement imaginable. It has virtually nothing to do with being “anti-war”; rather it is simply a vulgar collection of every institution that hates democracy, capitalism, the Republican party, the US military, and the nation of Israel. What’s worse, most of the really loony “anti-war” crowd has made it perfectly clear that they want to see our military destroyed and as many US troops killed as possible — this of course as “revenge” for all of the innocent civilians that our eeeeevil war machine has ground into the earth.
There are many Americans who have reservations about the use of the military in order to provoke and overturn “hostile” governments. I’m one of them. And I also enjoy the spiritual writings of Carlo Caretto, who can certainly be described as “anti-war.” However, I realize that once this nation makes a commitment to use its military forces, we need to see it through to completion, and as quickly as possible — which is the only real way to limit casualties.
Whether or not Pat Tillman read Noam Chomsky, it is inconceivable to me that he would join a bunch of pot-saturated freaks parading around without their clothes, carrying signs with Karl Marx’s picture on them, and cheering when US troops are killed overseas.
It probably would for some, but not most. You should realize that he saw combat in Iraq before he deployed to Afghanistan. He performed his duty no matter what his political feelings were. His hero status stems from the fact that he gave up fame and fortune to join the military in a time of conflict.
Does anyone really think that if Tillman agreed with Chomsky’s historical view of America that he would have joined the Army and participated in two combat deployments?
jadegold, you conveniently and likely intentionally overlooked the fact that he died fighting in Afghanistan, which according to all of the information, Tillman supported wholeheartedly, so your little “used by this administration to support a cause Tillman didn t agree with”. He died fighting for what he believed in.
Whether or not Pat Tillman read Noam Chomsky, it is inconceivable to me that he would join a bunch of pot-saturated freaks parading around without their clothes, carrying signs with Karl Marx s picture on them, and cheering when US troops are killed overseas.
is that what they’re showing you on FOX News, Mike? don’t you see the irony in your denigrating ‘pot-saturated’ freaks, while giving your ‘hillbilly heroin’ saturated friend Rusty Limbaugh, or off-the-wagon President Shrub a free pass?
then again, you’ve probably been muttering for years that ‘we could’ve won Vietnam, if only…’
Yeah, but chicks dig us.
Pat Tillman was obviously a team player — he switched his allegiance from one team to a bigger “team”, didn’t he?
It is unlikely — no, highly unlikely — that he would have come home spouting anti – war slogans and tossing his medals over the White House fence, his reading of Chomsky notwithstanding.
I was in the Army during Viet Nam. Lots of guys claimed to be opposed to the war. What did the actually do about it? Very little. Some hung out in anti – war coffee shops, but so did I. Some went to demonstrations, but not very many.
So?
“Yeah, but chicks dig us.”
Thats true but try women next time. Predict you’ll like that even more.
Dugger, ” Excuse me Senator Kerry. I knew Pat Tillman. Pat Tillman was a friend of mine. You are no Pat Tillman.”"
Dugger, a suggestion: strive for pathetic, ’cause right now, you’re non-existent. And I suggest you take your own ‘advice.’ Might clear the cobwebs.
I don’t understand why you want to make this about John Kerry, Dugger.
There are plenty of once-stellar reputations that Team Bush has trashed in retailiation for opposing the administration’s initiatives.
Just ask Ian Fishback.